0 A.D. Friendly Tournament Series

[Feldfeld]

The second edition of 0 A.D. Friendly Tournament Series has started! Here is the list of players:

ValihrAnt (2345)
Feldfeld (2201)
borg- (2169)
weirdJokes (1913)
Edwarf (1861)
LetswaveaBook (1815)
Dakara (1778)
PhiliptheSwaggerless (1642)
011235813 (1598)
MarcAurel (1547)
alre (1500)
chocapoca (1493)
seeh (1150)
Bete (1108)

________________________________

Round 5 matches:

@Feldfeld vs @Dakara
@ValihrAnt vs @Player of 0AD
@Edwarf vs @MarcusAureliu#s
@Philip the Swaggerless vs @BeTe
@rm -rf vs @LetswaveaBook
@chocapoca vs @seeh
Bye (no game for this round, +1 point): @alre

The deadline for this round is Friday 16, 23:59 UTC.

Please try to organize your match as soon as possible using forum private messaging! Beware of timezone differences.

Please message me personally if your opponent doesn't answer you after 2-3 days.

Brackets: https://challonge.com/sv36zmko

________________________________________________

Game settings:

Spoiler

The games will be played using feldmap, in Mainland Balanced, in typical 1v1 settings, free civ pick, and using the Community Mod at the latest version available at the time of the match.

The map settings are:
- Map size: Small
- Population cap: 250
- Starting Resources: Low
- No fancy other settings

Biome rules:
- Be sure to have feldmap updated to 0.2.1
- Select random biome

Tournament announcement message:

Spoiler

Welcome everyone

Following a suggestion from @Lion.Kanzen

I thought it would be indeed a good idea to try to host a tournament to promote the mod and its advantages.

This would be a friendly tournament where it is encouraged to try out stuff you think is OP and should be fixed, and stuff that has been modified by the Community Mod to see if it works well. This is not required though, you are free to play however you like.

The 2 mods required to play the tournament is the Community Mod https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/83784-introducing-the-official-community-mod-for-alpha-26/
And feldmap https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/53880-feldmap-a26/

The settings for individual games would be the same for all of them. Basically always Mainland Balanced and typical 1v1 settings. I will post the exact settings later though player agreements could also be made.

Now for the actual tournament format: the primary goals I want to achieve is speed (it's a tournament series so there will continuously be new tournaments of the same format, ideally) and balanced player matchups in order to have proper testing of gameplay balance features.

The speed requirement means that the tournaments will be single elimination. Double elimination just takes too long.

The tournament will be seeded meaning early on matchups could be imbalanced, so to avoid it being too hard I would limit the number of participants to 8 for a tournament, however if there are enough players interested there could be multiple brackets (Gold Silver) so anyone can play.
Vote whether you want the tournament to be seeded or not!

Now that this is settled, there remains the scheduling. I have multiple formats in mind, and I would like your feedback for which you prefer/think is best. Considering there will be 8 players per tournament/bracket, that means the duration is 3 rounds. Here are the possibilities

- Weekly (1 round per week, players schedule their match in PM)
- Lightning (tournament gets played in a day, each round just after the previous one, on Sunday at European afternoon (eg 13 UTC) or European evening (eg 18 UTC)

The tournament could start as soon as next week. So i invite potential participants to announce what scheduling format they prefer, and potentially already sign up for these schedules. Please note that I would not be able to play/help scheduling in European evenings. A forum account is required for signing up. Here is a sample message you can use to sign up:

 

- In game name: Feldfeld
- Interested for the following schedules: Weekly, Lightning European afternoon (Sunday 13 UTC)
- BO1 or BO3?: BO1
- Seeded or random brackets?:

______________________________________

Interests:

Weekly                                                                     : Feldfeld ValihrAnt PhiliptheSwaggerless Stockfish thephilosopher seeh Dakara Edwarf Bete
Lightning European Afternoon (Sunday 13 UTC) : Feldfeld ValihrAnt vinme seeh Dakara Edwarf
Lightning European Evening (Sunday 18 UTC)     : thephilosopher seeh Dakara Edwarf
BO1: Feldfeld vinme PhiliptheSwaggerless thephilosopher Dakara Edwarf
BO3: ValihrAnt
Seeded                 : Valihrant Bete
Random brackets : Dakara

First edition:

Spoiler

List of players:

@ValihrAnt(2322)
@Feldfeld (2169)
@Edwarf (1861)
@Stockfish (1833)
@Dakara (1772)
@Philip the Swaggerless (1646)
@kun0 (1547)
@thephilosopher (1305)

Brackets: https://challonge.com/l9vi81d9

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Feldfeld

[ValihrAnt]

57 minutes ago, Feldfeld said:

Please note that I would not be able to play/help scheduling in European evenings.

Return of the Feldfeld? I'd be glad to participate in this.

 

- Interested for the following schedules: Weekly, Lightning European afternoon (13 GMT)
- BO1 or BO3?: BO3

[Feldfeld]

@psypherium @Feldfeld @ValihrAnt @camel @Boudica @ffffffff @JC (naval supremacist) @Unknown_Player @borg- @chrstgtr @Lefo @Pudim @Philip the Swaggerless @Stockfish @PhyZik @itrelles @nani @Hannibal_Barca @LeGenDz @phoenixdesk @LANDLORD @kizitom @mord @user1 @elexis @Stan` @SaidRdz @Emperior @Emacz @Dunedan @Ivaylo @yilmazgng @go2die @MorTak @Imarok @sarcoma @Lion.Kanzen @D_D_T_ @R4PT0R @Servo @Itms @coworotel @badosu @sphyrth @wowgetoffyourcellphone @faction02 @feneur @Issh @PrincessChristmas @RolandSC2 @Jofursloft @CAGD_lulofun @HirnWolf @Dakara @thankforpie @mgx @ffm2 @andy_beauty @King_Soly @Ammaz @carthage @AltosLagos

Old ping list I know

[Lion.Kanzen]

Thanks, I think that this way the use of the mod is encouraged and the changes are made progressively. so this way you don't need to wait months for balance changes between alphas.

[vinme]

Great idea, id be willing to play.

id advise to make a tournament that seems so easy that theres no way that there will be complication/issues/problems, like overshoot on biting what you can chew, baby bites.

this way is best, as there isnt consistent tournament culture/foundation in 0ad and before it gets established through many tournaments, there will be less interest/higher difficulty of pulling it off for a variety of reasons.

So id advise best of 1, more dynamic, less tiresome to players so more are willing to play, doesnt take months to organize and a year to finish like 16 or 32 player best of 3 with 1 game per week.

8 players seems like the best sizing to start with, not too small not too large, maybe add in rating requirements later, when the demand is there like 1500+ 1600+ etc.  also would be interesting to see 1800+ 4 player tournament, also later ofc.

Id extremely strongly advise doing tournaments in single bursts, in terms of time frame, ive seen a few tournaments have very frustrating and tiresome issues with the plan being that they'd last week or 2 but then dragging on for months, etc.

PPL wont prioritize 0ad, since its just a very niche game, if they stop feeling like playing they'll just not come online for weeks, even after signing up for a tournament, or having an upcoming match, its much more predictable, that som1 saying they are willing to play in the next 1-3 days will more likely than not, follow through compared to say having ppl promise theyll play every week which i assure you, will backfire 99% and cause complications.

even 1 day tournaments, seem fine if you ask me, since itll take each player 3 games tops, if its best of 1. just need to have them be online on a specific time, and have lets say 3 hours free.

So the main issue im foreseeing is abandoment, so make sure you have a contingency for this, ie 0 tolerance policy, if you miss that x schedule, then tournament host gets involved, sets time immediately, and whoever misses that one forefits by default.
The second issue im forseeing is player online time alignment, this should be heavily focused on so it goes as smoothly as possible, setting it up thoroughly so no issues arise later.

And the final issue is ofc, ppl joining it in the first place, which i already mentioned would be improved with less commitment demanding formats, but also, best if from announcement, to the tournament being filled up, minimal time passes, so initial players who have joined, do not lose interest/forget about it.

ideally, with the fastest paced 1 day tournament, you announce the tournament, in 1 day it ges filled, you announce who plays who, and next day it happens, and finishes so the whole thing would take 2 days form announcement to finish.

setting specific start time, for each day gameplay, would be very valuable as when the rounds progress, people will always be coming online on the same time and there will be no ambiguity/room for issues and delays in terms of people cooperating in pms to oragnize meetups, delays in round progressions as many ppl inevitably cant progress when opponent doesnt respond or when they cant agree on time. Also for contingency on abandon, people should "log" themselves coming online in forums, and organize there, so there is history.

 

[vinme]

- In game name: vinme
- Interested for the following schedules: daily, European afternoon (13 GMT) 
- BO1 or BO3?: BO1 

[Feldfeld]

8 hours ago, vinme said:

Great idea, id be willing to play.

id advise to make a tournament that seems so easy that theres no way that there will be complication/issues/problems, like overshoot on biting what you can chew, baby bites.

this way is best, as there isnt consistent tournament culture/foundation in 0ad and before it gets established through many tournaments, there will be less interest/higher difficulty of pulling it off for a variety of reasons.

So id advise best of 1, more dynamic, less tiresome to players so more are willing to play, doesnt take months to organize and a year to finish like 16 or 32 player best of 3 with 1 game per week.

8 players seems like the best sizing to start with, not too small not too large, maybe add in rating requirements later, when the demand is there like 1500+ 1600+ etc.  also would be interesting to see 1800+ 4 player tournament, also later ofc.

Id extremely strongly advise doing tournaments in single bursts, in terms of time frame, ive seen a few tournaments have very frustrating and tiresome issues with the plan being that they'd last week or 2 but then dragging on for months, etc.

PPL wont prioritize 0ad, since its just a very niche game, if they stop feeling like playing they'll just not come online for weeks, even after signing up for a tournament, or having an upcoming match, its much more predictable, that som1 saying they are willing to play in the next 1-3 days will more likely than not, follow through compared to say having ppl promise theyll play every week which i assure you, will backfire 99% and cause complications.

even 1 day tournaments, seem fine if you ask me, since itll take each player 3 games tops, if its best of 1. just need to have them be online on a specific time, and have lets say 3 hours free.

So the main issue im foreseeing is abandoment, so make sure you have a contingency for this, ie 0 tolerance policy, if you miss that x schedule, then tournament host gets involved, sets time immediately, and whoever misses that one forefits by default.
The second issue im forseeing is player online time alignment, this should be heavily focused on so it goes as smoothly as possible, setting it up thoroughly so no issues arise later.

And the final issue is ofc, ppl joining it in the first place, which i already mentioned would be improved with less commitment demanding formats, but also, best if from announcement, to the tournament being filled up, minimal time passes, so initial players who have joined, do not lose interest/forget about it.

ideally, with the fastest paced 1 day tournament, you announce the tournament, in 1 day it ges filled, you announce who plays who, and next day it happens, and finishes so the whole thing would take 2 days form announcement to finish.

setting specific start time, for each day gameplay, would be very valuable as when the rounds progress, people will always be coming online on the same time and there will be no ambiguity/room for issues and delays in terms of people cooperating in pms to oragnize meetups, delays in round progressions as many ppl inevitably cant progress when opponent doesnt respond or when they cant agree on time. Also for contingency on abandon, people should "log" themselves coming online in forums, and organize there, so there is history.

 

I agree with your points about the simplicity of the format. Indeed the tournament should be smooth

I have no intention of adding rating requirements. I don't think we could afford it unless the tournament gets real popular, and even then, having gold/silver brackets would allow for best possible level in top bracket anyway. Also, the purpose of the tournament is experimentation with new features/balance, not necessarily high competitiveness.

The most successful 0 A.D. tournament had a weekly round format so I'm still quite open for this format. Having only 3 rounds and single elimination should prevent some of the drawbacks, but I know it's not foolproof and issues could happen. See

Maybe I was not enough clear on that point, but the daily/lightning format would only take place on Sunday, again unless the tournament gets popular enough. It's simply the most convenient day for most people. That said if we can afford it I'll offer alternatives.
For that format, I indeed intend to be very clear on the schedule (eg it starts at Sunday 13 UTC and I link to a website for local conversions). Maybe I'll also add a check-in but I intend to let registration open for the whole week.

Regardless, let's not focus too much on possible issues, so the thread is easy to read

[vinme]

the one vali did videos on? that was when a lot more players were more active i feel, especially higher level i mean.
yeah ofc 1500, 1600+ etc should be added LATER initially just host 1300+ one for bare minimum competence level, you cant let 900s in it will be totally pointless.

using weekends/friday for hosting could be useful, like 3 day tournaments, friday-sunday evenings.

What i wanted to say was making rating brackets will be essential for any bare minimum level of compettetiveness, which in turn is the sole factor ppl will be interested in, thatll make them wanna invest their time and effort in the tournament. ofc haivng lower rated brackets also would be great but for now prob best 1300+ and 1300- 

[Guest]

lgtm. I would love playing it or watching it.

Why not considering tag team tournaments (eg: Nation Cup) too?

[Feldfeld]

1 hour ago, rm -rf said:

lgtm. I would love playing it or watching it.

Why not considering tag team tournaments (eg: Nation Cup) too?

Thanks for your interest. You can announce your favorite schedule(s) and format, even if you don't want to participate in the first edition it is good for me to know what would be most favorable for the players.

For tag team tournaments, it can be a possibility if this simpler format works well and we can do regular tournaments. For now I use a simpler format because I want it to succeed, and from experience from other organizers, it is hard to organize a 0 A.D. tournament.

[Philip the Swaggerless]

In game name: PhiliptheSwaggerless
Interested for the following schedules: Weekly

BO1 or BO3?: BO1

Edited October 3, 2022 by Philip the Swaggerless

[Feldfeld]

Small note: regardless of the format for the other rounds, the finals will be in BO3

[Player of 0AD]

15 minutes ago, Feldfeld said:

Small note: regardless of the format for the other rounds, the finals will be in BO3

Isn't that way too easy for Vali?

[LetswaveaBook]

11 hours ago, Feldfeld said:

The most successful 0 A.D. tournament had a weekly round format so I'm still quite open for this format. Having only 3 rounds and single elimination should prevent some of the drawbacks, but I know it's not foolproof and issues could happen. See

I tried to host a tournament (to be precise: I tried to host the biggest tournament of 2021) and it failed. I wanted to give players the responsibility and the ability to find their own schedule.

However after a while, I was busy with work and didn't visit the lobbies enough to encourage players to play their rounds and the later rounds didn't get scheduled.

So either you need to have strict laws about who to boot if a match isn't played, or dividing players into a (small) league would a solution (or possible multiple leagues). If there are irresponsible players in a league, it is easy to kick them. Also in a classic tournament, you are supposed to meet one single opponent and it delays you if (s)he doesn't show up. In a league format you can move to the next round and play against the missing opponent later.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

17 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said:

Isn't that way too easy for Vali?

u should sign up

[Feldfeld]

11 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said:

Isn't that way too easy for Vali?

Easy or not, this is the best option for a tournament. BO1 would def feel too quick when this is over. Also imo nothing wrong for a dominant player to inevitably win (every) tournament, people do like to see dominant performances, and I believe this increased the popularity of many sports/games.

Regardless, someone would need to step up if we don't want that to happen

4 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:

I tried to host a tournament (to be precise: I tried to host the biggest tournament of 2021) and it failed. I wanted to give players the responsibility and the ability to find their own schedule.

However after a while, I was busy with work and didn't visit the lobbies enough to encourage players to play their rounds and the later rounds didn't get scheduled.

So either you need to have strict laws about who to boot if a match isn't played, or dividing players into a (small) league would a solution (or possible multiple leagues). If there are irresponsible players in a league, it is easy to kick them. Also in a classic tournament, you are supposed to meet one single opponent and it delays you if (s)he doesn't show up. In a league format you can move to the next round and play against the missing opponent later.

This is why I left the option open for the tournament to be played on a single day, on Sunday, that way all what a player needs to do is to show up at the scheduled time and then play the tournament, and the tournament would finish quite fast if the BO1 option is chosen. Also if one player doesn't show up there is the possibility of finding a substitute in lobby.

[alre]

21 hours ago, LetswaveaBook said:

I tried to host a tournament (to be precise: I tried to host the biggest tournament of 2021) and it failed. I wanted to give players the responsibility and the ability to find their own schedule.

However after a while, I was busy with work and didn't visit the lobbies enough to encourage players to play their rounds and the later rounds didn't get scheduled.

So either you need to have strict laws about who to boot if a match isn't played, or dividing players into a (small) league would a solution (or possible multiple leagues). If there are irresponsible players in a league, it is easy to kick them. Also in a classic tournament, you are supposed to meet one single opponent and it delays you if (s)he doesn't show up. In a league format you can move to the next round and play against the missing opponent later.

I don't think most players would be "responsible" enough to take the decision to kick a player from their league, I guess they would all give up one after the other. maybe deadlines would be useful though, for expelling players who don't play.

[Stockfish]

Put me in Mr. Feld! 

- I would prefer max 16 players.

- 1 Game per week.

- I don't mind at what time.

 

 

[Feldfeld]

18 minutes ago, Stockfish said:

Put me in Mr. Feld! 

- I would prefer max 16 players.

- 1 Game per week.

- I don't mind at what time.

 

 

Welcome!

I registered you for the weekly format therefore (1 round per week)
There is also the option for the tournament to be played quickly in one single day.

[thephilosopher]

If you're short on players and include anyone down to about 1300, I'll play. I'm not as good as anyone else who's signed up, but I'm a 1300-1400 player.

 

In game name: thephilosopher

Prefer BO1, weekly games or evening lightning round.

Edited October 5, 2022 by thephilosopher

[Feldfeld]

19 minutes ago, thephilosopher said:

If you're short on players and include anyone down to about 1300, I'll play. I'm not as good as anyone else who's signed up, but I'm a 1300-1400 player.

 

In game name: thephilosopher

Prefer BO1, weekly games or evening lightning round.

Everyone welcome!

I'd say the purely competitive aspect is not the objective of this tournament series. The focus is more about promoting the community mod, trying out its features, and making tournaments in 0AD in general more appealing (so if this has success other tournaments can be made basically)

That said, I can see how the already registered contestants can somewhat be scary, on top of that the seeded format would mean the lowest seeded participant is guarranteed to be against Valihrant, etc.

As such, I will offer a new option for which players can vote: do you want the brackets to be seeded or random?

If brackets are random, anyone could be against anyone starting from round 1. So lower seed players at least have a chance to be against a not-too-strong player and have a good fighting in first round and perhaps even advancing.

This also mean that, for example, me and ValihrAnt can be matched in first round, making one of us go down already. This is not the most competitive setting, but can be interesting and enjoyable due to non predictabiliity of result.

So I invite people to vote if they have an opinion on the matter, personally I abstain. Players who already registered can edit their post, I won't miss it.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Feldfeld

[seeh]

2 minutes ago, Feldfeld said:

Everyone welcome!

ok, then i do the same "If you're short on players and include anyone down to about 1200, I'll play. I'm not as good as anyone else who's signed up, but jost for fon or so .

[Feldfeld]

7 minutes ago, seeh said:

ok, then i do the same "If you're short on players and include anyone down to about 1200, I'll play. I'm not as good as anyone else who's signed up, but jost for fon or so .

Welcome! Please at least pick a schedule (or say that you are fine with any)

For players registering that announce something sounding like "if you're short on players" will be guarranteed to play if less or equal than 8 players registered and if we are close to 16 players registered. However, if we are more than 8 players but not quite close to 16, then they will have lower priority but could then register as sub if they wish to.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Feldfeld

[seeh]

10 minutes ago, Feldfeld said:

welcome! Please at least pick a schedule (or say that you are fine with any

fine with any

[Guest]

On 03/10/2022 at 8:52 PM, LetswaveaBook said:

I tried to host a tournament (to be precise: I tried to host the biggest tournament of 2021) and it failed. I wanted to give players the responsibility and the ability to find their own schedule.

However after a while, I was busy with work and didn't visit the lobbies enough to encourage players to play their rounds and the later rounds didn't get scheduled.

So either you need to have strict laws about who to boot if a match isn't played, or dividing players into a (small) league would a solution (or possible multiple leagues). If there are irresponsible players in a league, it is easy to kick them. Also in a classic tournament, you are supposed to meet one single opponent and it delays you if (s)he doesn't show up. In a league format you can move to the next round and play against the missing opponent later.

@LetswaveaBookThank you for your effort here! We enjoyed all the games played.. even if it stopped before the end.