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  1. Welcome

    1. Announcements / News

      The latest. What is happening with 0 A.D. Stay tuned...

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    2. Introductions & Off-Topic Discussion

      Want to discuss something that isn't related to 0 A.D. or Wildfire Games? This is the place. Come on in and introduce yourself. Get to know others who are using 0 A.D.

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    3. Help & Feedback

      Here is where you can get help with your questions. Also be sure to tell us how we are doing. What can we improve? What do you wish we could do better? Your opinion matters to us!

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  2. 0 A.D.

    1. General Discussion

      This is the place to post general stuff concerning the game. Want to express your love for hoplites or find people to play the game with? Want to share your stories about matches you have played or discuss historical connections to the game? These and any other topics which are related to the game, but don't have their own forums belong in this forum.

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    2. Gameplay Discussion

      Discuss the game play of 0 A.D. Want to know why the game plays the way it does or offer suggestions for how to improve the game play experience? Then this is the forum.

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    3. Game Development & Technical Discussion

      A forum for technical discussion about the development of 0 A.D. Feel free to ask questions of the developers and among yourselves.

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    4. Art Development

      Open development for the game's art. Submissions, comments, and suggestions now open.

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    5. Game Modification

      Do you have any questions about modifying the game? What will you need to do what you want to? What are the best techniques? Discuss Modifications, Map Making, AI scripting and Random Map Scripting here.

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    6. Project Governance

      Forums for decision-making on issues where a consensus can't be reached or isn't sufficient. The committees are chosen from among the official team members, but to ensure an open and transparent decision process it's publically viewable.

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    7. 373
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    • Its a bit disingenuous to claim its ignored when all proposed contributions do get recognized. Everyone is free to propose gameplay elements and if objectively justified would probably get merged too. If you need unimplemented features, write out the requirements so that an actual discussion can arise out of it. Having an arbiter of game design will not solve the problem of having voluntary moving parts that can just straight up stop spinning just cause they want to do so. There is no WFG entity making the game. There are people just like you working under said banner. Its not ignored because WFG decided to allocate all its manpower into engine development. Its ignored because no one stepped up. Everyone here are just as qualified to dedicate the time and effort and propose gameplay patches as those with commit access. However, no one is under contract to do so, so we cannot really ask @vladislavbelovto drop his rendering work to instead define counters or implement battalions or something. (even if we could ask it and he did sign a contract of servitude to 0ad, it would be a really stupid thing to do because his efforts are most needed in core engine code) Not directed at anyone here per se, but generally speaking, FOSS is a breeding ground for entitlement of volunteer time. A gridlock yes, but not a meaningful gridlock in my opinion, because usually, neither side involved actually goes beyond suggesting ideas. Ideas by themselves are kinda meh if no one evaluates them, justifies them, implements them and make the effort to convince others its objectively an improvement. Statistics for those who care, there are 326 differentials tagged [gameplay] on phabricator, 257 of them are already closed. Thats 78%. Gameplay contributions are not ignored, they don't come.
    • Hmm, interesting points from everyone who's chimed in I think. I think the real question now is, where do we go from here? Personally, given the feedback and notes from everyone in this topic/thread, I'm thinking the following: We need an easy way to communicate things that have been completed, and/or progress on the project; since not all of it is apparent. Balance, somehow, needs to be more accessible to the communty; and changes to balance need to be added to the primary 0ad repo, not a fork. Some level of direction is needed; I'm probably out of the loop, and way off base with this, but it seems that the project is kind-of just "going" ... but not necessarily towards a specific destination. We REALLY somehow need to improve morale in the community ... honestly these posts seem to be quite a downer. We have to get over this rut and move forward with a positive outlook. The community, and internal view of the project very much dictates external impressions; at least in my opinion it does to some degree. If anyone has any adjustments/additions to that list ... please make mention and number them accordingly. Of course, if one of my numbered items there, seems invalid, we can just delete it and consider it not a priority. So now ... I have a proposal! The proposal is ... If you post a problem, post a solution. If you don't have a solution, state how you imagine things would be if the problem was solved; as that would at least give us a destination, but not how to get there. So to practice what I preach ... here's some possible solutions to the points above: Further breakdown project milestones/versions (for example A27) into subprojects. There are a couple options here ... we could have an overarching goal for the milestone (for example, "Refactor rendering to remove nvtt and make way for vulkan support"; completely guessing here lol). Then during A27, the majority of work would be on that. Another option could be to have subprojects for the milestone; for example, Art could have a goal, Balance could have a goal, etc, etc. Then once they're all complete, A{n} is complete. Another possibly better option could be to have alternating milestone focus. So for example, in the case of A27. Maybe A27.0 could be focused on getting balance stuff in (maybe it's only a 1 or 2 week sprint). Then after that A27.1 would focus on non-balance related things. This would give time for the devs to do what they want, while also dedicating some time to balance issues. With solution 1 there ... there are some things that could help this. Alternativelty, if balance is just mostly xml configurations ... there could be some functionality added (idk if it's already there), to allow people to merge balance configurations. So for example, have a balance menu in-game where they could select the xml to load settings from. Then optionally, have an in-game balance vote (for example after a SP or MP game), on what the players thought of the balance. This would give some real feedback on each balance configuration, and differences/implications could be drawn when comparing concrete versions of the settings. It would give balance people and programmers a better technical understanding of what setting influences balance the most, or at least is the most controversial. Direction can come with the solution in point 1. Honestly ... my thought is that having a stream if tickets isn't the best solution for projects goal-wise. It doesn't give a clear outlook of progress (in my opinion). Having smaller goals would give a better sense of completion. Seeing those goals accumulate will give a better sense of success. One idea here would be to adopt something with some kind of project-based progress bars. The visual feedback of it is amazing in my mind. For example, there's this https://github.com/opf/openproject With it you can do progress bars like these: Of course, this is just an example, there's probably other software out there that does the same. Maybe gitlab does this? (just checked, it does, here's a screenshot) Ultimately, if we can have something like this on the homepage, that could be cool too! It could be a point-of-interest for anyone looking at the project ... if they're interested in helping, having current workings, or areas of real need posted publicly would be a benefit; and I think would draw in more people. Part of increasing morale is not to focus on the problems, or negatives, but solutions. That's part of the proposal above, and what I'm trying to do in posting these ideas. I REALLY want to see this project succeed and grow. Part of making that happen is being the change I want to see. So ... that was a bit of a brain dump lol. Thoughts? @Stan`I know (or at least it seems) much of the management side of things is on your shoulders. I'd be happy to help with project management where needed. I'd even go through the trouble of building a project management solution for the team if it's needed (I've honestly wanted to for a while lol ... but never had a specific target in mind); but that might be extreme. On a side note ... personally, I've worked for a few companies in the past years (not boasting or anything, don't take it that way ... I'm just using it as my reference of experience) ... all of which had some critical issues with project management. Unfortunately in my position(s) at the time ... I wasn't able to do much to change the management practices for the better. Here ... I'm starting with throwing out some ideas; if people like it, good, if not ... then we can adjust/delete/create/adapt as needed. To some degree, yes. Too much openness is bad, especially when no-one is declared the final decision maker. This is true in many cases. One that comes to mind (I've been watching a lot of Gordon Ramsay lately lol), is in businesses like hotels, restaurants. With a group of "owners", if there's no-one who has a final say, decisions rot. Part of what Ramsay does is instill a position of power in a single person ... that changes the entire organization, and how it runs as a whole. Maybe having a elected "official" would help the project. Alternatively ... we could also adopt a voting system of sorts, where solutions are presented, and voted on with a deadline within the community. Of course, there's a ton of ways about this. We could also make the project configurable by default. So like ... at any point if there's something that's a core concern, or clear divide in the community ... make a checkbox for it ... then we get BOTH those sides remaining interested, while also satisfying their personal needs/opinions. As always ... everyone please post ideas/feedback, thanks for reading my rambles!  
    • I can't fix that. As they said below, blaming a department for somethings that is  other department task isn't the way, this is fine for social media average comment section, Already here in the forum you can already see that not all of us do the same task, so you can see how a game is developed. But if you try to contribute to that change....you can:  Invite people, share the game, pressure the team(little) no like this, I have been patiently pressing for years. The only thing is that the ideas stagnate, I keep them. I save for laters, not only my personal ideas. Sometimes I open tickets without abusing. That reminds me to open those tickets. And bring out those ideas and discussions.
    • That's pretty interesting and very popular thought that I see in comments for mostly every AAA game  And that's actually a popular pitfall of a person unfamiliar with a development process. Because every team (>=2 people) for a faster development splits their responsibilities. And you can't blame people from some department for things another department is responsible for. It doesn't excuse us as a developer team to not have a stable amount of gameplay improvements. But it allows me to notice that the opinion is kind of biased.
    • It would not only be a single entity, it would be 3 rams. as if they were 3 ranks. Basic Advanced (Capped) Elite (Heavy)  
    • As opposed to receiving an endless stream of complaints about chronic imbalance and irhistoricity?  Curious that graphical interoperability is viewed as a critical priority by the developer community, but game design is sanctimoniously ignored for going on half a decade. Let's not pretend that this is a minor crisis just because it has been playing out for slow motion over years and decades. It seems like there have been almost a dozen balance test or rework mods shared in the last two year, but only small, incremental improvements have made their way into EA. All the key complaints are unchanged: there is always one unit type after every patch that is markedly overpowered compared to the rest, the economy and tech buildup beats of a typical match are unrefined compared to other representatives of the genre, the game is missing expected polish and key features like naval combat and formation tactics, and optimal combat tactics have scant resemblance to the historical militaries they are supposed to be depicting. The situation is a breeding ground for toxicity. New contributors and pundits are routinely popping up, excited to share their creative visions, only to slink away dejected a few months later once they realize how intransigent this project and community really is. (Granted, this is actually a healthy state of affairs for a vibrant project with a clear vision of what it wants to be, in order to maintain quality and focus development & organizational resources where they will be most appreciated by the community at large. But I don't think 0AD can be so-described.) And clearly this negativity is taking its toll on senior project managers too. Stan is obviously having some doubts about the sustainability of this state of affairs. If you look at that list of contributors, it's pretty clear the most experienced are actively trying to avoid any work that would touch on the gameplay part of the titular game. That is not good, and if it keeps up long enough, eventually your time and luck will run out and this project will die. Once again I put it to everyone that too much openness and communitarian idealism is the problem here. The whole point of "openness" is to prevent conflict by giving everyone a stake and voice in the process. However in this case we see too many stakes and voices causing gridlock, which is directly creating the biggest ongoing conflict afflicting this project. We have talked at length about technological, organizational, and philosophical remedies to this quandary. It is time for the guiding hands behind 0AD to make some decisions about what they are going to do... and then maybe practice some of that openness (transparency) you guys preach by not asking but telling us what you are planning and doing, so that we can have some confidence that this ship is headed in the right direction, or else make our own informed decisions about whether we want to jump off.
    • What is the current progress of this project? There have been recent commits to the repo so seems pretty active. Merging this into A27 would be nice. With a nicer level selection interface the maps could be committed as the inaugural campaign.
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