Is 0ad going to die?

[king reza the great]

Hi

These days we have to wait long time to play a game

Because of lack of good players

Many good players kinda left the game

In the past in a23 and even a24 which was the worst version we had more players

These days Almost there is no  good  1v1 game

Some good players are banned

Some good players keft the game because some players (mods) leaked their ip and accounts. We have few good players. Should not make them run.

Many players left because of no upgrades or no new version.

0ad is a good game. Should not something like that happens.

If that is opensource then opensource is failed. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by king reza the great

[alre]

honestly I think that opensource is a good mean, and it's not failed at all, in fact you can notice nowadays how many cutting edge project are still being released with OS licenses. But it's a mean, not a goal. The way our world works, OS is not the beast mean for making games and there is little point in trying to make a game that is completely OS just for the sake of it.

This completely random opinion said, because 0AD is open source, it will never die. Anyone can revive it anytime. If there is interest, things will happen. Otherways, they can still happen later on, as long as there is someone that wants to make them happen.

[Dakara]

What you propose king ?

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

Even if a game is not competitive its still important to have game design depth that allows players to continue to improve. Improvements in some areas are needed:

• civ differentiation: more to learn for each civ
• melee/ranged re-balance, and unit specific upgrades: more complexity to upgrade valuation and choice of unit composition.
• performance upgrades: games will run faster with less lag and will make it harder for a slow player to keep up with the multitasking of a fast player
• multiplayer oriented, strategic, balanced maps, option for fixed positions. Maps designed for gameplay with diverse focuses and different dominant strategies.

From what I've heard and seen there is work underway in almost all of these categories. I don't think the future for 0ad is that bleak to be honest. Thanks to all the devs and contributors who've put in time for 0ad!

[seeh]

idea:

"Anonymous Replay Challenge: Guess the Players!" 

concept: replacing player names with numbers and the challenge of guessing the players while watching the replays.

That sounds like an funny idea - right? It could add an element of mystery and challenge to watching replays. It would be fun for the moderators to try and guess the players based on their gameplay style or strategies. It could also make the replays more accessible to viewers who may not be familiar with the specific players. Overall, it could be a fun and engaging addition to the replay-watching experience.

Edited August 23, 2023 by seeh

[camelator]

I definitely agree with the topic:

I am playing 0ad for years, and now when I am in the Hall there are only few Team Games

And people are not very pleasant : they don't want to play with guys without a good ranking...

So new incomers are not very welcome and they leave.

 

 

 

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

One other concern which is hopefully not a problem in a27 is the community mod player base separation. The community mod fixes a lot of bugs and has significantly improved gameplay as well, it is considered to be the better version of the game to play. I think allowing the community mod to experiment with features and fulfill the role of playtesting would be nice, so that the players can always fall back on the base game if the features under testing are not successful.

[seeh]

21 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

community mod player base separation.

yes i mean the community mod sperate players. new player dont know hot to get it easy. middle player toggle it all the time. maybe its possible to play without such a think . idk

Edited August 24, 2023 by seeh

[maxticatrix]

I personally think pro players should behave better and set an example of good conduct. Arrogant pro players drive out people who just want to have fun with their attitude. I prefer mediocre players in a nice environment than playing with very good uneducated players. I think this is also seen in the rise of password games. A toxic pro of >1500 attracts toxic players and kicks normal players. It's not nice to play like that. Pro players should also feel a bit more responsible for the community and not just focus on playing with each other. Regarding mods, I think their contribution is contradictory. On the one hand, they enrich the game, but since they don't have a massive fan base, they also fragment it excessively. It's kind of annoying to be turning the community mod on and off to find a game. Lastly, being a player for more than 5 years, I think I miss seeing the game reach a more stable level of balance between factions and units. With each alpha it seems that you have to relearn how to play. Sorry for my bad English. I only speak Spanish and use an automatic translator. Greetings to all. See you in the game.

[alre]

12 minutes ago, maxticatrix said:

Pro players should also feel a bit more responsible for the community and not just focus on playing with each other. 

good call. Every time I've witnessed a top player losing a TG, they would start complaining and behave toxic. Bro, chill! It's a team game, not all eyes are on you!

16 minutes ago, maxticatrix said:

With each alpha it seems that you have to relearn how to play.

Well as long as we are in alpha stage, this is expected. I don't think that's bad personally. The game would feel carved in stone otherwise, and since its gameplay is not that rich, that would be bad I think.

[guerringuerrin]

Two weeks ago I played a game as Reza's pocket. I played badly and we lost the side. He started attacking me and telling me not to play "Pro Games" if I didn't want to receive that kind of aggression. All the following matches he asked the host to get me out of the lobby or not put me on his team.

If it were a super popular game, perhaps this would be one more anecdote. But with such a small community I would start by improving personal behavior towards other players. It's the least we can do.

Edited August 24, 2023 by guerringuerrin

[Gurken Khan]

Why does @s0600204 change the title of someone else's thread?

[borg-]

I am certainly one of the 10 oldest accounts in the lobby. When I first started playing, I only had 2 players to play, scythewirley and wesono, maybe on a good day, 5-6 players simultaneously in the lobby, with a lot of luck we managed to create a 2x2 game, and either way I still had fun.
I saw all the good, average and bad players go through 0 a.d. I made many friends, really many hours of fun, in my case thousands. Most are gone, new ones have come, it's a cycle of life that also applies to our beloved game. As long as there are people as passionate about this game as I am, 0a.d will live on.

Edited August 24, 2023 by borg-

[Grautvornix]

Maybe I am a bit too relaxed, having never played a mulitplayer game, but looking at some of the discussions in this forum, I am really surprised that people take 0AD that serious - like a real war thing, like a matter of life and death. It is definitely not, I hope. This is not even an official contest and you can win only friends and a bit of experience.

So come on folks, this is a game we all want to enjoy.

And, no, I don't think it is is going to die so soon.

[0 calories]

23 hours ago, king reza the great said:

Hi

These days we have to wait long time to play a game

Because of lack of good players

Many good players kinda left the game

In the past in a23 and even a24 which was the worst version we had more players

These days Almost there is no  good  1v1 game

Some good players are banned

Some good players keft the game because some players (mods) leaked their ip and accounts. We have few good players. Should not make them run.

Many players left because of no upgrades or no new version.

0ad is a good game. Should not something like that happens.

If that is opensource then opensource is failed. 

Answer is here School holidays 2022-23 to lack of players

https://www.myskistay.com/date/en-schedule-of-the-school-holidays-Europe.html

 

[Emacz]

I think if people were less toxic, and didnt abuse the rules as much it would be a little more fun...

I don;t get the point of "multi accounts" which a lot of you refer to as smurfs... to me a smurf is someone who is good, loses on purpose and has low rating... so like 800 but really should be 1500-1700.

Multis are all these accounts with 1-0, 3-0, 5-0 win/losses that keep popping up over and over.  So you dont know if its a new player, an experienced play with a new account or what not.

[axo15]

This sounds all too familiar @guerringuerrin @maxticatrix Personally, I've taken some distance after being berated by Reza, some weeks back. And by "berated" I mean being called a retard and other abuses for underperforming handling a new civ for the first time in an all random game. Just another anecdote among many, indeed...

These sort of things keeps happening. I've lived my share, and seen a number of lovely players leave explicitly because they can't/won't handle the aggressive othering, the racism, the homophobia or whatever the order of the day might have been. Real people are spending real time coping with the interpersonal punches they've taken in 0ad, irl... Is it really worth it, guys? Theres a clear pattern here, that without doubt is a part of the rapid turnover we all see and lament. 

@king reza the great Maybe if you can provide some insight into how you reconcile wanting to expand the player base and meeting players in the way that you met @guerringuerrin and myself lately, we can begin to dig into what is going on here and establish a more constructive dialog?

Another consequence of the rigid in-group/out-group mentality of the core players, is that more capable players are being kicked and replaced with lesser players, ostensibly because they are not "good enough" to play with the self identified big boys. They are being told to shut up and get in line, in spite of the data often clearly showing that this "qualitative" argument is flawed, which doesn't exactly inspire. No wonder players leave if their hard earned accomplishments are plainly dismissed simply to maintain the status quo of the in-group.

It's clear that the interpersonal dynamics of this space is at odds with the enormous effort invested into making this game a reality, and as such, potentially its future too. Is it an idea to try to quantify this sort of experiences by, say, opening a thread we collect peoples stories in a more organised manner? Could be interesting for the project to document and get a real handle on what motivates people to leave, no? If we deal with these things openly, it'd be easier to speak up in game without fear of loosing ones clout. My take is that we all carry a degree of responsibility in this. Sure, we all have some idea as to who the rotten apples are. Yet witnessing these things in silence is without question a major enabling factor. Time to step up?

 

Finally, to the devs and all you good apples out there: a million thanks for an amazing game, the lovely times and the mountain of giggles! You rock!!!

 

 

[Gurken Khan]

38 minutes ago, axo15 said:

a thread we collect peoples stories in a more organised manner?

There's the disputes thread where ppl can officially complain & sanctions will follow if appropriate.

[axo15]

11 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

There's the disputes thread where ppl can officially complain & sanctions will follow if appropriate.

Thanks @Gurken Khan. Thats not what I'm suggesting tho. If we are real about wanting to turn this around and retain more players/cause less hurt, might it be an idea to establish a venue for mutual support between those of us who take an active interest in backing players who are on their way out due to abuse, hacking ect. so good apples  proactively can close ranks around those who might need it. 

This space could also function as data mine re peoples motivations for leaving, which undoubtedly would be useful in trying to understand why the player base is shrinking/what can be done to increase the longevity of the project.

[Gurken Khan]

@axo 1. I think it would be good if ppl spoke out immediately if they witness unwanted behavior in the lobby/game.

2. I don't know if the player base is actually shrinking. @Stan` had some statistics about devices connecting, but I don't know where to find it/compare it to previous years.

3. If you think a ~self help group thread is a good idea maybe just start it yourself.

I only do single player, so everything MP I can't really judge/am not personally affected.

[alre]

6 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

2. I don't know if the player base is actually shrinking. @Stan` had some statistics about devices connecting, but I don't know where to find it/compare it to previous years.

Who knows. For sure MP playerbase has shrinked, but I guess this is to be expected after the pandemic boom and its long tail (late a23/24/25).

[alre]

1 hour ago, axo15 said:

Thanks @Gurken Khan. Thats not what I'm suggesting tho. If we are real about wanting to turn this around and retain more players/cause less hurt, might it be an idea to establish a venue for mutual support between those of us who take an active interest in backing players who are on their way out due to abuse, hacking ect. so good apples  proactively can close ranks around those who might need it. 

This space could also function as data mine re peoples motivations for leaving, which undoubtedly would be useful in trying to understand why the player base is shrinking/what can be done to increase the longevity of the project.

I doubt that would work honestly. Rather, try to create an alternative host in game. There are various hosts and clusters of players tuning in and out, I almost never have these problems you are telling us because I almost always host.

[alre]

maybe put a disclaimer on your hosted games, like #notoxic, and advertize it here. tray to catch players who want to leave, before they do.

[thephilosopher]

32 minutes ago, alre said:

Who knows. For sure MP playerbase has shrinked, but I guess this is to be expected after the pandemic boom and its long tail (late a23/24/25).

If I had to take a big guess as to why the player base might be shrinking right now, I'd say it's this. I know I really ramped up my playing during the pandemic and haven't been as active in the last year+. I think lots of others are in a similar position.

I won't deny the toxic stuff happens. I've seen it. But I'm not convinced it's happening any more often now than it was a few years ago.

 

[BeTe]

Not sure it will help to this topic, but one thing I was bothered while trying to improve is early rushes (like skipping Storehouse and Farm and making cav) from significantly better players than me. This can be especially annoying when you have more hunt around CC... I saw it's almost normal thing on higher level games but it can piss off beginners. Maybe it's more fair to not even start game and gently say "bro we are too different skills, sorry it will be boring for both of us". 

I personally avoid playing aggressive when I play against weaker player otherwise. 

Currently I don't care to be rushed - I want to try to scout on time, but maybe for other to think about. 

cu guys!