Emacz

Classical Warfare AEA is another option

"Helots 25% less dmg, range and spread than normal citizen infantry, but same gather rates as civlians. They also only have 50 HPs but cost only 40 food and 10 wood or stone. They don't recieve forge techs"

I still want to get around to grouping the civs like we previously discussed here but through the course of all my "research" (not nearly as in depth as academics on here) Ive thought a little about how to build up each unit a little more historically accurate and unique to other civilizations with the "same" unit. First, I'm trying to paint a picture of what the "average" citizen soldier would "look like" only based on the type of weapon they carried and whether they were "frontline" melee or skirmishers. This chart lays out their "walk speed" which was gather through several back and fourths with various ai programs to help determine a plausible walk and run multiplier for the various units. I then started to gather information on the various shields used during the time and tried to give them a "resistance" bonus vs a "walk speed penalty" As well as three levels of armor, light, medium and heavy. These are both done as "mixins" so they can be added to the "parent template" which just has the walk speed/run multiplier, dmg related info based on the weapon and health points. Because melee is at the fore front I started with 150 HP and ranged at 75. You think build their "resistances" up from there. So a Gaul spearman carrying a large Celtic shield and wearing light armor would have different resistances, movement speeds and in some case attack speed than a traditional "Greek Hoplite." If anyone is interested in this and wants to help assign values to the different types of shields and armor and then build "equipt" each civs various units I'd appreciate the help. It's your to help with the balancing of the units!

You can still check out Classical AEA... they actually should move a little faster IMO since they had 0 armor.... although most skirmishers had zero resistance. But helots have less HP, less dmg and dont get forge techs in CWA, but they are cheap to produce and have civilian gather rates (which are better than cs)

I was trying to combine something we talked about in pm with the current game set up. I forget what game it was but if I recall correctly you said you start with a unit, you send the unit to the barracks and train it as either a swordman, spearman, archer etc? So when units are first created they should be identical health/resistances etc.. right? Then you train it to be an archer and it gets more dmg via the bow, and maybe a little extra amor than a regular unit ie civilian... where as if you want a peltast it would be equipped with a pelta and little to no armor. But a hoplite would have full , the shield (aspis) which would slow it down. But a roman legionaries shield (scutum) would be even heavier, slowing them down more. But then a hoplite would wear more armor overall/plus the fact that a spear is more cumbersome than a sword, and the hoplite ends up being slower than the legionary.

You kinda could. They way I invivision it is a low kit unit would have the same actor for all 3 ranks…. Then if you get a tech for spearman increased body armor say, all spearman would “promote” they would have to go back to rank 1, but then the “new” unit would have a new actor…. So you may need 9 templates just for that civ’s units if you have 3 “kit” upgrades.

may even take it a step further, custCWA chart - Sheet10.pdfomize the weapons too (not the graphics though, just the stats, length, speed etc) based on this chart, if you find it fairly accurate.

correct, and all ranking up does for you is give you a little bit more health and a little bit more melee attack or range accuarcy.

@OutisI was just using spearman as an example, but yes it would be for each melee unit... And what I would do for techs, with the help of you and @Thalatta over time is, I would have one armor one for spearman, swordman, pikeman, clubmen, axeman. So basicaly your unit starts off with "no armor" just a shield and weapon... and then you decide which ones you want to give which units, at a loss of speed... your gear or "kit" wouldnt look different as you ranked up... instead if you got a tech it would change the appearance of gear.

Could also get rid of some of the forge techs for shields... and the armor ones could be based on which civs used what types of armors. One for melee and one for ranged... a little more custimisation, and diversity. With hopefully "history" behind most of the units, techs, etc and why some civs have but others don't....

tell me if you think I’m crazy…. I was gonna lower all melee armor to 1/1/1..then set movement speed based on weapons, swords/maces first, then axes, then spear than pike. Then I was gonna differentiate “spearman” with a mixin based off of the type of shield they used…. I’ve played around with it for javelneers. I have the peltast, the caetra, the Parma, Celtic shield and noba shield. Then like @wowgetoffyourcellphone did with Thebes mod I can add a "history" which will give a little info on all the different shields, make things a little more educational and a lot more diverse. @Thalatta @Outis thoughts?

Thanks to @Atrik Maury Ele archers can now shoot multiple arrows as they rank up! Sneak peak at volley attack which will be released next alpha

Yes and from what I read later in their history Spartans relied more on Perioikoi as they couldn’t maintain the same spartiates numbers. So wanted to balance out a little. And helots aren’t exactly “soldiers” they can’t promote, they don’t receive techs….. they are basically cheap bodies to offer a little “missile” action. again maybe the Perioikoi reduced train time isn’t needed. Need more games to sorta see how it works out.

Ok yeah, that would work… they could get an attack bonus like city states as part of their grouping… and then as they phase up they get additional attack bonuses that don’t happen to other civs. But they won’t have some of the protection, auras that other units have. I can put place holders in for all of this… but will take lots of play time to figure out the right balances. And I can’t really do that by playing against myself any volunteers to play/test mp with me?!??

So again, they aren’t restricted. They are stronger than regular champ spearman, especially once they are fully promoted. But when you go p2, they take an additional 10% train time. When you go p3, they take an additional 15% on top of that. And a few of their techs add additional train time. So unless you play death match with cheats, or a game for hours it’s harder to replenish/mass them. On the othetide of the equation Perioikoi take 10% less train time in p2 and an additional 10% less p3… so you can basically train 3 periokio in the time it takes to train one spartiates.