Edwarf

yes

yes

Team Ranking could help for next alpha balancing

Hello, There is many building almost never used because they are not enough useful, it is a bit sad because the art work behind is great. I wish we could find a way to balance them a bit more in order to see them more. Most of them are unique building, they can participate on the civilizations differentiations. Unused building balancing ideas: Theatron : Current one : Bonuses: Structures +20% territory influence raduis Cost: 200 Wood + 600 Stone + 200 Metal On going patch : D3602 / D3563 New bonuses/mechanic ideas : 1 - Ressources trickle -> 1 metal / sec Justification : Cultural wealth. 2 - Faster training time -> reduce the prodution time of organic unit. Justification : Contribute to the well being of the population / meeting place. Balancing proposals : Proposal 1 : Bonuses: Ressources trickle : 1 metal/sec Faster training time : -10% training time Territory increased : +50% Cost : 600 Stone Proposal 2 : ... Edict Pilar of Ashoka: Current one : Bonuses: Traders +20% speed. Range : 75 meters Cost: 100 Stone + 100 Metal Condition: Ashoka the Great is alive On going patch : / New bonuses/mechanic ideas : 1 - No condition required : -> Don't need to train Ashoka the Great Justification : Unify with other civilizations 2 - Building placement : -> Neutral territory -> Ally territory Justification : Trade routes is very often with allies. 3 - Team speed bonus : -> The trader speed bonus works also for allies. Justification : Trade routes is very often with allies. Balancing proposals : Proposal 1 : Bonuses: Own and ally traders +20% speed. Range : 75 meters Buildable on own, neutral and ally territory. No condition required Cost : 100 Stone Proposal 2 : Bonuses: Own and ally traders +20% speed. Range : 75 meters Buildable on own, neutral and ally territory. Condition: Ashoka the Great is alive Cost : 75 Stone Proposal 3 : ... Cothon (Naval Shipyard): Current one : Bonuses: Garrisoned ships +10 health regeneration rate Cost: 300 Wood + 200 Stone On going patch : / New bonuses/mechanic ideas : 1 - Faster training time -> Ships are built faster (training time reduce by 80%) Justification : This building is a ship factory. Balancing proposals : Proposal 1 : Bonuses: Garrisoned ships +40 health regeneration rate. (still slower than 5 units repairing) Ships are built 80% faster Cost : 300 Stone Proposal 2 : ... Lighthouse: Current one : Bonuses: Very Large vision range Cost: 200 Stone + 200 Metal On going patch : / New bonuses/mechanic ideas : 1 - Faster ships movement speed -> Ships moves +20% faster inside the vision range, allies included Justification : Lighthouses mark dangerous coastlines, hazardous shoals, reefs, rocks, and safe entries to harbors Balancing proposals : Proposal 1 : Bonuses: Ships movement speed +20% Very Large vision range (current one) Cost : 250 Stone Proposal 2 : ... Wonders: Current one : Bonuses: Glorious Expansion : +20% maximum population limit (requires the "Glorious Expansion" technology) Ressources Trickle : 1 Food/s + 1 Wood/s + 1 Stone/s + 1 Metal/s Cost: 1000 Wood + 1500 Stone + 1000 Metal On going patch : / New bonuses/mechanic ideas : 1 - Reduce all unit cost -> All unit are +20% cheaper to train Justification : / 2 - Reduce all building cost -> All building are +20% cheaper to build Justification : / Balancing proposals : Proposal 1 : ...

Haha yes, it's just ideas

Ideas proposals to make it more "realistic" : Taxes : Every unit gives a metal trickle. Food consumption : Every unit cost food (negative food trickle) -> once you reach 0 food your unit start to die. (inspired by "Cossacks"/"American Conquest") Every unit are train as simple citizen, In order to get soldier you have to send your unit to your barracks to get equipement and military training. In other word training a soldier cost a citizen. (inspired by "Cossacks"/"American Conquest")

Big gameplay change are involved in this topic, and some suggestion are impacted by A25 gameplay patches CC not able to train military unit : I'm not sure it is a good idea, this will make you really dependent of the map. If you are lucky and you got extra food(hunt/berries) you will be able to spend your wood into a barracks and then you can be aggresive. In the other hand if you are unlucky and you don't have any extra food you will have to invest your wood into field, your barracks will be delayed by 2 min, which makes you extremly weak. Can be even worse with D2854. And as @chrstgtr explain it will slow down rushes reactivity. Baracks training higher rank unit: I don't really like this idea, it will make the game slower. Barracks units are mainly used to boom during the first 10 min of the game and higher rank unit have lower gathering rates. Also higher rank unit is planned for mercenaries to differenciate them (D3699). Citizen Cavalry not able to hunt anymore : I don't like this idea, in my opinion it is a great innovation from this game giving dynamism to it. Being able to rush then gather some food on your way back and stealing opponent hunts are interresting gameplay. Hunting cavalry is part of this game identity. Compared to citizen soldier they can't do much, they are not able to build or gather other ressources than meat. There is already a cavalry not able to hunt the champions. Well, i like multidisciplinary units being able to have a job during peacetime. Using citizen infantry to hunt: Infantry can already hunt, they hunt as fast as woman collect berries without the upgrade. In some rare situation it can be worth to use your infantry to hunt. New unit the "Scout": I like the idea to have a wider range of unit possibilities. having a unit dedicated to hunt and explore can be interresting. If you see this as a kind of mounted "woman", i like it, but if it is a unit meant to replace current phase 1 cavalry, I am not very enthusiastic. Being able to build outpost is an interresting idea, I like it, but current A24 outpost need to be reworked otherwise it is not usefull. Limitation of unit trainable: I don't like this idea of limiting the quantity of unit trainable. Let some freedom to the players. Limiting to 5 scouts: is it really worth it to make more if they can only hunt, explore and die ? Limiting to 15 citizen soldier in the CC: i don't really see the point. In early game it is not much used to train citizen soldier being the only building where you can train women. and in the late game you don't need women anymore. As it is currently, the CC is useful all along the game. In AoE the scout can only explore and harass the oponent. Here if the scout can collect ressources, build outpost and being bad at fighting, it doesn't seems to be too much like AoE. Especially if the current cavalry is kept as it is currently. I think more opinions are needed about this unit, it is a big change.

If I am right, The circle you see in game is the former building range from A23. It doesn't seems to be updated. And it was also just a small indication on A23 because elevation and range upgrade were not taken into account. In A24 you can consider the building range as the field of view of the building except for the fort the range is similar to its territory range.

@alre

Hello, Here is my personal feedback about your change. V0.2.1: Automatically set mercenaries to rank 2 and halve training time [Thanks @Nescio] -> Why not Mercenary upgrade to rank 3 technology for Carthaginians [Thanks @borg-] -> Why not but doesn't work on your mod. Fixed health bonus to military units with each phase up [Thanks @Valihrant] -> I don't like it a percentage is mutch better. Instead of doing 2* +10hp, do 2* +10%hp (which means less HP for ranged infantry, same for melee infantry and more HP for melee cavalry) V0.2.0: Increase cavalry move speed [Thanks @Valihrant] -> Why not Increase turn rates for infantry and cavalry [Thanks @Valihrant] -> Why not, but the dancing is back. Added a minimum distance between forts and civic centres [Thanks @faction02] -> Why not but i'm not a big fan. All Changes Units: Cavalry and Infantry javelineers accuracy increased (spread set to a23 value since they became much less effective in fights compared to other ranged units) -> Why not Infantry javelineer walk speed increased (to allow skirmishers to chase slingers and archers and prevent formation laming) -> Why not Infantry slinger walk speed increased (to chase archers, but still be slower than javelineers and prevent formation laming) -> Why not Cavalry and Infantry archers attack rate reduced and damage increased (to unify with other ranged units as higher attack rates provide a demonstrable advantage in practice) -> I prefer to have unit not unified, but ok why not Melee cavalry health increased (to make melee cavalry more effective in fighting and rushing as they currently are underutilized and tend to lose to massed range) -> I don't like it at all melee cavalry is already very strong in A24, this will make cavalry unstoppable just like persia in A23. Rank up HP is enough, more over in your mod Phase 3 rank 3 cavalry have more HP than champion cavalry. Reduced training time of cavalry, infantry, and women (to allow players to make the choice of either rushing or a larger boom) -> Why not Increase cavalry move speed (to enable raiding as it is currently disadvantageous to attempt in all stages of the game compared to booming) -> I don't like it cavalry is strong enough for raiding in A24, this will make them too strong. More over currently on your mod cavalry have the same speed as champions cavalry. Increase turn rates for infantry and cavalry (allow better engagements for aggressors while still keeping in the intent of preventing dancing) -> Why not, but the dancing is back. Automatically set mercenaries to rank 2 and halve training time (since mercenaries have prohibitive cost compared to the value they provide as they do not have enhanced stats without this upgrade or the ability to gather resources) -> Why not, make sense Fixed health bonus to military units with each phase up (tradeoff of having more pop or phasing up for a hp bonus during a fight or push to allow for more variety of timing strategies) -> I don't like it a percentage is mutch better. Instead of doing 2* +10hp, do 2* +10%hp (which means less HP for ranged infantry, same for melee infantry and more HP for melee cavalry) Siege: Allow rams to hit fields and units (to allow for fast clearing of space and to prevent laming by body blocking) -> I don't like it, it feel useless to me, it make your rams behave stupidly. Reduce wood cost of catapults (to compensate for the inability to effectively fight units as area-of-effect damage was removed) -> I like it Buildings: Increase the resource cost and build time of palisades, stone walls, and Roman siege walls (to prevent abuse of walling) -> I don't like it a wall of farmstead is similar to a palisade ? It would be better to make longer palisade keeping its stats (like picture). Stone walls and Roman siege walls are fine. At least they are a little bit used now. Reduced arrow damage of civic center, sentry tower, defense tower, and fort (to prevent defensive structure abuse) -> I don't like it, why would you use garrison mechanics if your units becomes useless inside ? Defensive build are not that strong in A24 if you know how to deal with them. Reduced health of sentry tower, defense tower, and fort (to prevent defensive structure abuse) -> I don't like it, 4 houses have more HP than a fort ? Sentry tower are already extremly weak and can be destroy by archers. Theater buffed to have more territory weight and influence (since it did not provide a significant advantage for its cost) -> Why not Roman army camp can produce siege engines and cost 100 more wood and 300 more metal (to allow for greater variety of strategies at a greater cost) -> I realy don't like being able to build siege in Castra, you can loose a game because of 1 sneaky man, that's not an interresting strategy. Increase outpost vision when not garrisoned, but give greater vision when garrisoned (to make outposts useful while still rewarding garrisoned units) -> I like it Allow Macedonians to produce arsenals at the town phase (to allow greater strategic variety and compensate for the loss of the uniqueness of the siege workshop from A23) -> Why not but useless Phase 2 exept to go phase 3 Added a minimum distance between forts and civic centres (to force the choice of increasing territory via a civic centre or securing territory via a fort instead of allowing both at low risk) -> Why not but i'm not a big fan. Technology: Reduced city phase requirement from 4 to 3 (to encourage boom/earlier aggression and de-incentivize tower abuse) -> Why not Defensive towers do not count in city phase requirement (to discourage turtling and de-incentivize tower abuse) -> Why not Sentry towers do not count in town phase requirement (to discourage turtling and de-incentivize tower abuse) -> Why not even if it's not really usefull. Reduced metal cost of all farmstead and storehouse technologies by half and increased wood cost to compensate (since metal is scarce on popular maps and is required for many strategies) -> I like it Reduced metal cost of all forge upgrades by half and increased wood cost to compensate (since metal is scarce on popular maps and is required for many strategies) -> I like it Remove food cost for non-champion mercenaries (since mercenaries' high metal cost coupled with their inability to gather resources necessitates an advantage to compensate; also, since the intent was to have them be more realistic by costing gold or metal, then food should not be one of their costs) -> Why not Add cartography to market while keeping the option in civic centres (to still allow players the choice of taking cartography in the village phase, but also have the choice to take it in the town phase without sacrificing unit production) -> Why not Bring back carrier pigeons and stone foundations for outposts (to give the choice between achieving greater utility at the cost of a garrisoned unit or at the cost of time and resources through technologies) -> I like it Arsenals produced by the Macedonians count towards city phase requirement (to allow greater strategic variety and compensate for the loss of the uniqueness of the siege workshop from A23) -> ok Mercenary upgrade to rank 3 technology for Carthaginians (to give a differentiating trait to Carthage and an incentive to try a mercenary army strategy as Carthage has the greatest mercenary diversity) -> Why not but doesn't work on your mod.

Hi, Is it possible to add a team population game parameters ? (like world population but per teams) Is it possible to make a simple team game rating system ? which can be improved later ?

I think it's a good idea to give them tiny ram phase 2 (two men and a trunk) But i'm not sure about removing their current ram phase 3. a weaker ram phase 3 (as discussed here : D3319) is enough. If they are too weak in phase 3 it make this civilization gameplay predictible: They will have to do their push phase 2 otherwize it's game over, opponent can plan defense for min 8 to 12.

Hello, Will it be implemented in A25 ? Is it the case for all building or only for "arrow shooting" building ? I wonder if it's working for temple, pyramids...

Hello, Quick remarks about regicides : Due to the A24 elephant heroes change they are now able to destroy CC during phase 1 on a regicide game. I attach a replay from Dakara to illustrate this point. DakaraRegicideReplay.zip Extra heroes in regicide games : I figured out that some civs can have access to "new" heroes not trainable in normal game. Macedonians 4th and 5th heroes : Kushites 4th hero : Some heroes can start with a horse or without. Example : About balance : Starting with random Heroes providing huge or useless bonus can severely impact the balance of a game (for example compare Indibil and the Kushite hero above) Also starting with a cavalry or infantry or elephant impact the hero safety : Elephant heroes can't be garisoned Infantry and Elephant heroes are easy to snipe. Cavalry heroes can kill all the economy of the opponent at the start of the game. -> In order to balance regicide games: is it possible to provide a similar hero to each civilizations ? For example a cavalry hero with better resistance and less attack than standard cavalry heroes and with no bonuses. And this specific hero don't stop the possibility to train a standard hero during phase 3. This would be even greater if this can be set as a game option, Standard Regicide / Balanced Regicide (Yes random games are still fun)

@Dizaka, Thank you for your comments, i commented again (in blue inside the quote)