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Borg Expansion Pack Mod Release V 1.0.5

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First I want to say that it was a great pleasure to work on this mod. I have a lot of affection and respect for this game, where many people work hard to give us some fun.
0a.d has already provided me with hours of fun and I felt compelled to give back a little of it.

Were long 7 months of much work, really most people do not know how much this is laborious. You need to always have new ideas, do and redo many things, look at historical context, test, test and test, and of course, have people available to help you in this process. Tnx @Angen @Lion.Kanzen @Stan` @ValihrAnt @Feldfeld @Stockfish @wowgetoffyourcellphone.

Well, this will be the last version (1.0.5) of the mod for the current version a23b. Just a version to fix something if necessary. Nothing new will be added.

From now on the whole work will be focused on the a24 version, where together with @elexis we will review the mod so that if so accepted by the developers, it can be implemented to the a24.

The main goal of the mod was to bring players and the community a better experience of gameplay/balance within what the game can offer in the current state of development. It is perceived by everyone that gameplay has been "stalled" for some time, so that was my focus.

As I mentioned before, even though many resources are lacking due to the current state of development, it is possible to do much more with what we have now.

I want to make it clear here that the changes made in the mod have always respected the main pillars and design documents (just changed what was really needed for the balancing to work).

Major changes/Features

- Added counter system;

- General balancing of all units and buildings;

- Gameplay slightly different for each civilization;

- Reformulation of current techs/auras/bonuses/teambonus;

- New bonuses/auras.

- New buildings/units/technologies for the respective civilizations;

- New upgrades to units/buildings;

- New icons;

- Mercenary champions units now has icons with yellow color.

- Civil centre can train only women (some exceptions);

- All mercenaries cost only metal;

- Units promoted has no gather penalty;

- Deactivated the animation of promotion (units do not take damage while celebrating);

- Hero after death can not be trained again;

- Dead animals lost food;

- Domestic animals can fatten;

- Increased number of icons available on the panel;

- Women can build all buildings;

- Promotion (advanced/elite rank) gives +10% health, +1 armour, +20% attack +1 capture attack, +20% loot, vision range for all soldiers. Healers gain +5 heal range and +2 heal/HP.

Counter System 

The system I chose to work on is simple and easy to set up for casual players or pro players.

Spearmen/Pikemen bonus against Cavalry/Elephant;

Archer/Slinger bonus against Melee Infantry;

Skirmisher bonus against Archer/Slinger;

Swordsmen all-round;

The same applies to Cavalry.

Cavalry Spearmen bonus against Cavalry/Elephant;

Cavalry Archer bonus against Melee Infantry;

Cavalry Skirmisher bonus against Archer/Slinger;

Cavalry Swordsmen all-round.

To many changes such example: to each quarter built by a Macedonian player, gain a free pikemen. Macedonian is the only civilization that can train pikemen in village phase. Sparta is a civilization focused on melee units and the only can train champions on village phase.

These and many more changes can only be seen with details in the technological tree.

 

Please, give your feedback, this is important.

 

The latest version is not yet downloadable by mod.io, it is waiting authorization.

 

If you have any doubts on how to install the mod: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Modding_Guide

 

 

 

Edited by borg-
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Thank you for your work. Hope people will like the mod and that it makes the game more fun to play.

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Just played the mod in a 1v1 against borg and I honestly hope this gets adopted into the main game. It fixes many of the criticisms I've had with this game:

1) Counters are finally implemented.

2) There are various buildings now for each style of military unit (infantry, range, cavalry) which adds a different strategic element to the game

3) No military units from the Civic Center: this prevents early spam and cheese rushes which I personally like

4) There is a more varied technology tree, giving more options for civilization development

5) Overall feels like a more in-depth game compared to vanilla

I've only played the one game but will check out the various other features. Things I would hope to see in the future:

1) battalions

2) more civic and city building strategies, including possibly a more varied economy

3) charge feature of cavalry

4) directional attack bonuses, reduced fire time of ranged units, and possibly ammunition feature to be supported by supply chains

Anyway, highly recommend it and excellent job on the mod.

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I tested it I think there will be good reception from the players. We need to advertise it on the lobby and see the players will react. To me it offers more strategic planning now. There was no error at all. 

I didn’t mind about balancing yet and tbh idc about it. What’s important to me are newer features and structures. I think only good players will experience a slight pattern of gameplay changes and newer ones wouldn’t care at all and will be delighted with the new changes. 

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11 hours ago, l2edVipel2 said:

Just played the mod in a 1v1 against borg and I honestly hope this gets adopted into the main game. It fixes many of the criticisms I've had with this game:

1) Counters are finally implemented.

2) There are various buildings now for each style of military unit (infantry, range, cavalry) which adds a different strategic element to the game

3) No military units from the Civic Center: this prevents early spam and cheese rushes which I personally like

4) There is a more varied technology tree, giving more options for civilization development

5) Overall feels like a more in-depth game compared to vanilla

I've only played the one game but will check out the various other features. Things I would hope to see in the future:

1) battalions

2) more civic and city building strategies, including possibly a more varied economy

3) charge feature of cavalry

4) directional attack bonuses, reduced fire time of ranged units, and possibly ammunition feature to be supported by supply chains

Anyway, highly recommend it and excellent job on the mod.

Tnx for feedback xD.

I'm studying all this at the moment and more. I have good plans for version 2.0.

But it needs to be studied very carefully, because if it is implemented to the original game, then it must have the support of the devs.

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2 hours ago, Servo said:

I tested it I think there will be good reception from the players. We need to advertise it on the lobby and see the players will react. To me it offers more strategic planning now. There was no error at all. 

I didn’t mind about balancing yet and tbh idc about it. What’s important to me are newer features and structures. I think only good players will experience a slight pattern of gameplay changes and newer ones wouldn’t care at all and will be delighted with the new changes. 

Tnx for feedback xD

There is always something to be changed, but for now small details.

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1 hour ago, JonasTuo said:

when will it come to mod.io? since i can't get it started with the manual install

Needs to be accepted by @Itms first.

 

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1 hour ago, JonasTuo said:

when will it come to mod.io? since i can't get it started with the manual install

Needs to be accepted by @Itms.

Why u cant manual?

Edited by borg-

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21 minutes ago, borg- said:

Needs to be accepted by @Itms.

Why u cant manual?

well, you would likely need to give him under some friend category on mod.io to be able to see it normally otherwise it is hidden. 

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30 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Spear cavalry good vs. Elephants? How does that make any sense? ;)

There is no logic or historical context in any counter system, this does not exist in real life haha, it is only necessary for the game.

Elephant is considered a "cavalry", if spearman have bonus vs elephants why spearman cav no?

Tnx for feedback xD

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5 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Spear cavalry good vs. Elephants? How does that make any sense? ;)

 

4 hours ago, borg- said:

There is no logic or historical context in any counter system, this does not exist in real life haha, it is only necessary for the game.

Counter systems are derived from real life. That's one reason why armies are usually composed of many different types of units. For example: infantry is vulnerable to artillery. Artillery is vulnerable to aircraft. Aircraft are vulnerable to anti aircraft. Anti aircraft is vulnerable to infantry. Within each class, their are even counters. Heavy cavalry takes light cavalry. Light cavalry takes ranged cavalry. Ranged cavalry takes heavy cavalry. In general terms.  

Anyway, horses tend to be terrified of elephants, also mentioned by ancient sources, so anti-cav should definitely be a bonus for all elephant units. Elephants are vulnerable to pikes, javelins, arrows and slings. Even if those weapons don't always immediately kill the animal, elephants really don't like people throwing pointy sticks and rocks at them. It makes them mad, and uncontrollable. Charging horses against elephants will cause the horses to panic and throw their riders. 

Really cool initiative though! I wish you all the success!

Edited by Sundiata
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5 hours ago, Sundiata said:

 

Counter systems are derived from real life. That's one reason why armies are usually composed of many different types of units. For example: infantry is vulnerable to artillery. Artillery is vulnerable to aircraft. Aircraft are vulnerable to anti aircraft. Anti aircraft is vulnerable to infantry. Within each class, their are even counters. Heavy cavalry takes light cavalry. Light cavalry takes ranged cavalry. Ranged cavalry takes heavy cavalry. In general terms.  

Anyway, horses tend to be terrified of elephants, also mentioned by ancient sources, so anti-cav should definitely be a bonus for all elephant units. Elephants are vulnerable to pikes, javelins, arrows and slings. Even if those weapons don't always immediately kill the animal, elephants really don't like people throwing pointy sticks and rocks at them. It makes them mad, and uncontrollable. Charging horses against elephants will cause the horses to panic and throw their riders. 

Really cool initiative though! I wish you all the success!

In the sense of composition of the weapons, yes, it has logic, but in isolated units I do not see much sense. What really matters is the type of strategy used in the field.
What I mean is that, on the one hand, we have the Iphicrates and their light weaponry knocking down all heavy / light infantry, on the other hand we also have the great alexandre and its pikemen knocking down the entire Persian heavy / light army.

Anyway I forgot to mention, that elephants have an advantage against cavalry in this mod, you reminded me. :D

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(

On 1/18/2019 at 3:05 AM, l2edVipel2 said:

1) Counters are finally implemented.

They are implemented since 2011.

They were even massively used in 10 wfg released alpha between 2011 and 2014 (from a7 to a16).

)

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One of the main reasons it was removed is because the way that they gave damage bonuses for most units, aside from spearmen countering cavalry, was that it was generally unintuitive.  Every unit was a hard counter, making it feel like a convoluted game of rock-paper-scissors than actual warfare.  Since 0 A.D. is striving for eventually making warfare that rewards total war style micro and attempting to emulate history, the way that counters exist requires nuance.  Given the fact that many features regarding formations have not been released, having a functional counter system based on history implemented is difficult.  

I see the reasons that one would introduce hard counters, given that they provide an intuitive model, but there are a few issues I have with many.  For instance swordsmen countering spearmen is a peculiar one.  In comparing spear to sword, there is a massive difference in reach, making the spearman in most situations have a substantial advantage to the swordsman.  While I don't advocate for spearmen being able to beat swordsmen in one-on-one fights, the advantage that the swordsmen have could be simply based on swordsmen having faster movement, allowing them to catch or retreat from ranged units easier, which could be valuable in fights.  

On another note, I would question archers having a bonus against melee infantry.  They should already be able to kite them effectively.  That said, I would say that borg's counter system is a massive improvement to the initial counter system.  

As a question, since the civic centre can only produce women, is there any way to make military buildings if all starting military units are killed from early-game harassment?

Edited by Thorfinn the Shallow Minded
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1 minute ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

One of the main reasons it was removed is because the way that they gave damage bonuses for most units, aside from spearmen countering cavalry, was that it was generally unintuitive.  Every unit was a hard counter, making it feel like a convoluted game of rock-paper-scissors than actual warfare.  Since 0 A.D. is striving for eventually making warfare that rewards total war style micro and attempting to emulate history, the way that counters exist requires nuance.  Given the fact that many features regarding formations have not been released, having a functional counter system based on history implemented is difficult.  

I see the reasons that one would introduce hard counters, given that they provide an intuitive model, but there are a few issues I have with many.  For instance swordsmen countering spearmen is a peculiar one.  In comparing spear to sword, there is a massive difference in reach, making the spearman in most situations have a substantial advantage to the swordsman.  While I don't advocate for spearmen being able to beat swordsmen in one-on-one fights, the advantage that the swordsmen have could be simply based on swordsmen having faster movement, allowing them to catch or retreat from ranged units easier, which could be valuable in fights.  

On another note, I would question archers having a bonus against melee infantry.  They should already be able to kite them effectively.  That said, I would say that borg's counter system is a massive improvement to the initial counter system.  

As a question, since the civic centre can only produce women, is there any way to make military buildings if all starting military units are killed from early-game harassment?

In the mod women can now build barracks/range/stable

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19 minutes ago, Feldfeld said:

In the mod women can now build barracks/range/stable

Exactly. I and feldfeld talked about it, it could be a problem if the first four soldiers were killed, so we decided to enable women to build barrack/stable/range.

Edited by borg-

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25 minutes ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

One of the main reasons it was removed is because the way that they gave damage bonuses for most units, aside from spearmen countering cavalry, was that it was generally unintuitive.  Every unit was a hard counter, making it feel like a convoluted game of rock-paper-scissors than actual warfare.  Since 0 A.D. is striving for eventually making warfare that rewards total war style micro and attempting to emulate history, the way that counters exist requires nuance.  Given the fact that many features regarding formations have not been released, having a functional counter system based on history implemented is difficult.  

I see the reasons that one would introduce hard counters, given that they provide an intuitive model, but there are a few issues I have with many.  For instance swordsmen countering spearmen is a peculiar one.  In comparing spear to sword, there is a massive difference in reach, making the spearman in most situations have a substantial advantage to the swordsman.  While I don't advocate for spearmen being able to beat swordsmen in one-on-one fights, the advantage that the swordsmen have could be simply based on swordsmen having faster movement, allowing them to catch or retreat from ranged units easier, which could be valuable in fights.  

On another note, I would question archers having a bonus against melee infantry.  They should already be able to kite them effectively.  That said, I would say that borg's counter system is a massive improvement to the initial counter system.  

As a question, since the civic centre can only produce women, is there any way to make military buildings if all starting military units are killed from early-game harassment?

Tnx for feedback :D

Bonus to archers are important, they have a huge range, so if we remove that bonus, we have to give them a higher dps, which would make the op unit, since there are several units to contain them. Maybe we could work with some other counters, I accept suggestions.

 

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Will try to comeback to 0 ad and play some multiplayer match next week when I will have internet again.

Because this topic have been talked a lot, won't write suggestions, but @borg- have you considered to change hack/pierce/crush to melee/ranged/siege attack? Maybe it's easier to design and balance this way

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