Ideas ?

[fatherbushido]

Thanks @Sundiata for saying it!

(for a long time, the only relevant answer I had to proposed to that issue was "42")

[Emperior]

5 hours ago, Diatryma said:

eh.... nope, total war isn't base building game.

Try Ancerstor Legacy, Praetorians, Battle for the Middle Earth and Rise and Fall : Civilizations at war.

I did play first one.

I dont remember 2nd.

Last two unknown.  (could be lack of advertisment as each year i am checking strategy games which are coming out. )

I played the "normal ones": age of empires, stronghold, settlers, warcraft 1, 2,3 etc.  Sparta (or something like that) starcraft a little bit but not big fun about it. Anyway, I hate Ancestors Legacy for having so beautiful graphic but destroying game and all fun with battallions.

Simply we all have different taste in games. Currently from A21 ( from start till now 0ad never been using battallions). Instead of them, we have formations. Feel free to use them, so I don't understand whats your issue  here.

 

3 hours ago, camel said:

Me llaman Michael Jackson, soy el jefe de la danza. Resolveré tus dudas con ello.  

He encontrado una manera efectiva de beneficiar a mi parkinson, me encanta. Bailar es vida, bailar es amor.

De todos modos estoy de acuerdo con sus puntos, excepto la selección de modo. Actualmente encuentro esa característica muy bien agregada, tal vez porque me acostumbré.

Paz.

With the first two I don't agree. I can do that as well, it was few of us who was doing that on the start. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

2 hours ago, fatherbushido said:

Thanks @Sundiata for saying it!

(for a long time, the only relevant answer I had to proposed to that issue was "42")

Could someone explain me whats 42?

Noone sees issue with luring. ech

[Nescio]

28 minutes ago, Emperior said:

Could someone explain me whats 42?

The Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything?

[Diatryma]

1 hour ago, Emperior said:

I did play first one.

I dont remember 2nd.

Last two unknown.  (could be lack of advertisment as each year i am checking strategy games which are coming out. )

I played the "normal ones": age of empires, stronghold, settlers, warcraft 1, 2,3 etc.  Sparta (or something like that) starcraft a little bit but not big fun about it. Anyway, I hate Ancestors Legacy for having so beautiful graphic but destroying game and all fun with battallions.

Simply we all have different taste in games. Currently from A21 ( from start till now 0ad never been using battallions). Instead of them, we have formations. Feel free to use them, so I don't understand whats your issue  here.

 

With the first two I don't agree. I can do that as well, it was few of us who was doing that on the start. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Could someone explain me whats 42?

Noone sees issue with luring. ech

you don't destroy the fun if both things can coexist like Rise and Fall.

Spoiler

 

from creators of Empire Earth and Empires Dawn of modern age

Edited February 16, 2019 by Diatryma

[borg-]

Dance really breaks the game.

Another thing that is frustrating is the animation when the unit promotes its rank, unit stays invincible for a few seconds, and this is totally broken, I fixed this in my mod, and it should be the same for a21.

 

[LANDLORD]

Agreed on dancing, that's a pretty bad bug in this game. No other high level RTS has something like that with the pathing and it's bad when it's very abused.  I don't blame high level players from doing it because everyone else kind of does it, but it's still very frustrating seeing it. 

 

The pathing of the units is also frustrating at times- having your entire army go after one unit (without you selecting an attack on that specific unit) in big battles sucks. Having your units attack what is in front of them (by default) would help. 

[Gurken Khan]

2 hours ago, borg- said:

Another thing that is frustrating is the animation when the unit promotes its rank, unit stays invincible for a few seconds

I think that's fair, as the unit can't attack either (right?). I was afraid several times my freshly promoted units would die, because they wouldn't go where I told them when they were doing their vain prancing; so I'm actually glad they're invincible.

Or we could just get rid off it completely.

[faction02]

I agree that dancing/luring/patrolling against big armies is a problem. I do blame high level players for doing it. I do not consider this to be fair-play and if it was to become a standard practice, the game would become pointless for me.  

I guess many players agree with the idea of having hero-trainable once only, I do not see any reason to be strictly against it. However there might be some adjustments to be done accordingly (aura range, hp, balance between civ with 3 good hero and those with only 1...). It could be used to address other issues too, weaker hero with larger aura could reduce dancing issues for example.

16 hours ago, Sundiata said:

Ranged units should randomly pick 1 out of the 10 nearest enemy units to attack.

This will literally solve the issue and we'll have more organic ranged combat as well.

Currently ranged units always target the nearest unit. That's the core of the problem. They should spread fire.

The idea seems interesting, however I wonder about the implications that it might have on the other parts of the game. Would it make melee units run around too much or what would be the implications for fights between small groups of units ...

Edited February 16, 2019 by faction02

[Emperior]

1 hour ago, Gurken Khan said:

I think that's fair, as the unit can't attack either (right?). I was afraid several times my freshly promoted units would die, because they wouldn't go where I told them when they were doing their vain prancing; so I'm actually glad they're invincible.

Or we could just get rid off it completely.

You are glad because your unit getting promoted but your enemy troops are trying to kill person next to them which often happens they are shooting person who is getting promoted: "bullets has been wasted". Instead of that they could've kill way more people around the person getting promoted.

Imagine also your 5 troops getting promoted. That's a lot who canno't be killed. That is happening a lot during multiplayer matches.

 

[nani]

Stance mode set to defensive

stance_mode.pyromod

stance_mode.zip

@Emperior you can add more stuff if u want

 

Edited February 16, 2019 by nani

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, Emperior said:

You are glad because your unit getting promoted but your enemy troops are trying to kill person next to them which often happens they are shooting person who is getting promoted: "bullets has been wasted". Instead of that they could've kill way more people around the person getting promoted.

Imagine also your 5 troops getting promoted. That's a lot who canno't be killed. That is happening a lot during multiplayer matches.

 

I don't see this as so much a big issue for balance, since all players have this equally. The dancing is way more problematic.

[sarcoma]

@feneur This is dancing, requires no skill and makes dancing unit immortal and enemy army focuses on it:

[sarcoma]

10 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

I think that's fair, as the unit can't attack either (right?). I was afraid several times my freshly promoted units would die, because they wouldn't go where I told them when they were doing their vain prancing; so I'm actually glad they're invincible.

Or we could just get rid off it completely.

The problem with promotion is that army focuses fire on that invincible unit for a second or so

[Sundiata]

4 hours ago, sarcoma said:

The problem with promotion is that army focuses fire on that invincible unit for a second or so

 

11 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I don't see this as so much a big issue for balance, since all players have this equally.

As wow says, It's the same for everyone, so it doesn't affect gameplay.

Anyway, if ranged units spread fire, this would be even less of a thing to think about. 

[Trinketos]

5 hours ago, sarcoma said:

@feneur This is dancing, requires no skill and makes dancing unit immortal and enemy army focuses on it:

Party hard!

[borg-]

I do not see problems with the instance of unit, you need the minimum of micro to control them correctly and do not let them run behind a enemy unit, and it is also possible to change manually.

 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, sarcoma said:

@feneur This is dancing, requires no skill and makes dancing unit immortal and enemy army focuses on it:

Projectile always hit. Problem solved. Meaning, a missed shot deals some damage if the projectile was atleast somewhat near the target.

[borg-]

1 hour ago, (-_-) said:

Projectile always hit. Problem solved. Meaning, a missed shot deals some damage if the projectile was atleast somewhat near the target.

This would work as splash dmg ?

[bb_]

The promotion issue could somewhat easily be solved by not allowing units to attack invincible units (that would also solve the catafalc arrow absorber). The dancing problem is much more complicated, since "homing missiles" or "splash" aren't ideal solutions either. I once tried implementing "turning times" for units, but that resulted in total chaos when moving large groups of units.

[Emperior]

2 minutes ago, bb_ said:

The promotion issue could somewhat easily be solved by not allowing units to attack invincible units (that would also solve the catafalc arrow absorber). The dancing problem is much more complicated, since "homing missiles" or "splash" aren't ideal solutions either. I once tried implementing "turning times" for units, but that resulted in total chaos when moving large groups of units.

Script which calulates moving clicks, once noticed as spam kills the hero? Ofcourse switch off patrol for mp.

[bb_]

A patrol distance threshold would be  a fix for the auto dance indeed, but that doesn't solve the handdance. Te hard thing for a spam block script, is defining "spam", eg. if one want a unit to walk along a circle between two points, I wouldn't consider that spam, but a spam script probably will mark it as such. Maybe a solution would be a "minimal time for walk", so that units will walk very slowly on short orders, thus giving the arrows enough time to hit. One gotta think about the implications of that though...

 

[Emperior]

@bb_ For dancing you need to do really small distances with manual dancing. From 1 up too 2 steps. left, right, top bottom = dancing, spaming. Once patrol removed there is no other way to actually dance. Manual dancing will kill the units.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Emperior

[fatherbushido]

Can someone which see that as a problem define me the problem?

For example, here (the best summary quote I find in that topic):

On 2/17/2019 at 3:59 AM, sarcoma said:

This is dancing, requires no skill and makes dancing unit immortal and enemy army focuses on it:

I see 3 issue:

- A: requires no skill

- B: makes dancing unit immortal

- C: enemy army focuses on it

Which one is the problem (or which combination is a problem)?

(I have my personal answers to that but I'd like to hear yours - defining a problem usually come before solving it.)

Edited February 18, 2019 by fatherbushido

[Guest]

11 hours ago, borg- said:

This would work as splash dmg ?

Yes, it would. But, that might come with unintended consequences.

[Alexandermb]

On 2/16/2019 at 7:30 AM, Emperior said:

Anyway, I hate Ancestors Legacy for having so beautiful graphic but destroying game and all fun with battallions.

Simply we all have different taste in games. Currently from A21 ( from start till now 0ad never been using battallions). Instead of them, we have formations. Feel free to use them, so I don't understand whats your issue  here.

Thats it something should be thought when implementing those batallions, they should be implemented as an optional function for big armies to reduce micro clicks on them, not by forcing the player to train x15 soldiers each time, so you should have Form batallion button and Disband.