Sundiata

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Sundiata last won the day on February 5

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  1. I like your proposals. But why not let precious metal be mined as well, from quarries and outcrops, like stone? I really like the idea for building slots for quarries. But why should the gatherers die when the storehouse is destroyed? Shouldn't they just ungarisson from the mine? "But aside hills or in the sides of mountains or cliffs are Quarries" Yes! 1 other important question. Why is it possible to recruit horses without something like stables? Maintaining any number of horses is a tremendous amount of work, especially in a military context. Horsemen learning to ride properly, and training for cavalery combat can also take years. I always assumed stables or an analogue structure to enable the recruitment of cavalry units seemed obvious. And it would add another building to the building roster of every civ (more eye-candy/building diversity) In the same vane, I'd like to bring up the idea of a specialized economic building for each civ again. Just for the sake of having the semblance of an economy (None of our civs produce any finished products. What are they trading?). It could provide a small precious metal trickle and secondary economy-related technologies can be researched there. Perhaps they could even be a prerequisite for building a market. A specialized economic building can represent the ancient workshops or cash crop plantations that were such a vital life-line to every civ featured in the game.
  2. @Lion.Kanzen I was just doing some fact checking on the Garamantes. I think they are particularly interesting for a miniciv. I don't know a whole lot, but I'll be brushing up on some Saharan history soon. They were a Berber kingdom, with their capital at Germa, also known as Garama (one of many towns). They were a powerful state between 500BCE and 700AD, located in the Fezzan area of modern-day Libya. They had a literary tradition, writing in an undeciphered proto-Tifinagh script. They were known to the Greeks, and fought several wars with the Romans. They were experts at irrigation, and turned the desert green by tapping underground water reserves. They cultivated both Mediterranean crops, as well as sub-saharan crops. Made use of camels and horses, including chariots… Garamantes sphere of influence (orange) Ruins Germa, also known as Garama Central temple in Germa Artistic reconstruction of Germa Garamantian chariot Modern day Tuareg descendant of the Garamantes, with Germa ruins in the background More info and pics will be shared in the future.
  3. I understand the concern for recognition. Although square Kushite palaces/admitrative centers are some the most archaeologically recognizable structures in Kushite sites, along with Amun temples and Apedemak temples. It's always the same kind of pattern, and people familiar with Kushite archaeological sites will definitely recognize them. But a "squarish-rectangular" compromise is acceptable enough I presume. Just see what you do with it. Even if you follow Juli51's design exactly as it is, it would look great. I'm just nitpicking for the sake of historical accuracy
  4. I'm not exactly sure what @LordGood will cook up, but I'll just weigh in my opinion on it now. I think @Juli51's drawing is stylistically great. My issue is with the dimensions. The structure should definitely be nearly square, with a small courtyard/light-well in the middle. The windows on the ground floor should be a little bit smaller, and the windows on the second floor could be slightly larger arched windows (an exposed brick arch would be especially nice and accurate) That having said, I really like the drawing, nice work!
  5. @sauerkrautpie I do agree with the need for more factions. The Helleno- centrism of the current game is a little too much. For some classicists, there is no need to go beyond the Mediterranean, but that just leaves all the rest of us wanting for more. There were indeed other powerful and relevant states, which would fit nicely in the current game. I don't think any faction should be removed though. Even if the team is able to add the Thebans (another Hellenic civ), I wouldn't object, as long as other more unique factions are also added. The Kingdom of Dacia for example, could represent both Dacia and Thrace, and would be a nice addition. Maybe you'd care to check out this topic on the Kingdom of Kush, that I started several weeks ago. We've been working on a mod for the Kushites, a Sudanese Kingdom/Empire that fought wars with the Egyptians, Persians, Ptolemies and Romans. They're unique in terms of architecture, units, clothes… @LordGood has already done some really nice modeling work on buildings (houses, tower, barracks, drop-site, farm). You could get an idea of the minimum necessities for adding a civ (including information gathering). You can also contribute to this end. With hard work and dedication, maybe one day the Kushites can be added to the main game, but before that can even be discussed, we need to finish them first, and that will take a lot of work, as with any faction you'd consider adding.
  6. The Kingdom of Kush, an Illustrated update I present some more visual references of some details including pyramids, jewelry, pottery and other more random things. Random things Firstly, yet another Kushite temple to Amun from Tabo, on Argo Island in the Nile, measuring 75.6 metres (248 ft) long and 31 metres (102 ft) wide. On the right is a statue of King Natakamani, found in Tabo. This copper-alloy statue of an unidentified Kushite king was discovered at Tabo on Argo Island within the court of the Great Temple in a pit. Note the thumb-bring, indicating the importance of archery, even for royals. Kushite offering tables, used for the pouring of libation. Often found at temple sites. Note the Meroitic script lining the edges. On the left and right, we see Kushite altars. In the middle, we see an elaborate temple relief/sculpture depicting Amun in the form of a Ram, flanked by 2 lions representing Apedemak. Remnants of a colonnade of a large temple at Naqa, depicting the god Bes. An actual picture of the now lost fresco from the shrine to victory in the royal city in Meroe, depicting a Roman soldier, alongside Egyptian and Nubian captives. This is the same shrine where the bronze head of Emperor Augustus was found. Some more Pyramids The lesser known pyramids at Gebel Barkal, close to Napata. Meroitic pyramids in a relatively intact state (late 19th to early 20th century). Pyramid field at Meroe Pyramid fields of El Kurru and Nuri. Kushite Pottery Kushites were excellent potters, and their pottery was desired and exported on a large scale to Egypt and other surrounding area's since predynastic times, well in to Roman times. Here's a selection of Meroitic pottery: Kushite Jewelry Kushites were also excellent jewelers, and were world renowned for their gold. Most of the graves and pyramids had been looted in antiquity, but not all of them. The pyramid of Kandake Amanishakheto (reigned c. 10BC - 1AD), plundered by Giueseppe Ferlini, proved to be one of the most extensive Kushite treasures ever found. Here I present some of her jewelry, alongside other beautiful examples of Kushite metallurgy. Amanishakheto herself, on the left, and one of her crowns (center) and bracelets (right) More of Amanishakheto's bracelets. Kushite earings Kushite pendants. On the left is a Ram's head with an uraeus, representing Amun. Second from left a lion/ram sphinx, third from left is a ram's head on top of a crystal and on the right a lion's head placed on top of a circle of golden baboons. On the left are signet rings, worn by people of authority, used as stamp of authenticity on documents. On the right is another bracelet. On the left and right are shield-rings. Center-left is a heavy bronze anklet. Center-right is a pendant with "magic" potion inside a hollowed out crystal, topped with a golden image of Hathor.
  7. @wowgetoffyourcellphone Sounds a little complicated. Why not just 1 pyramid for town phase, 2 pyramids for city phase? And territory bonus for the civic center where the pyramid/pyramids are built. Temple Meroe 250 Another interesting structure (eligible for wonder or special building) from Meroe is the temple "Meroe 250" (M250). It is colloquially, yet erroneously known as the Sun Temple. Possibly a commemorative temple to victory (it's walls were covered in reliefs of military scenes, triumphant soldiers and bound captives). Some more images of temples to Amun Taharqa's temple to Amun at Kawa The almost identical temple to Amun at Sanam, on the left. On the right is a ram statue (representing Amun, protecting a smaller image of Taharqa, from the processional entrance road to the Amun temple at Kawa. The Amun Temple at Naqa (Naga) @balduin "Additionally, the metal production technology bonus could be developed in the temple [to Amun]." I agree with this.. @balduin I don't know exactly how to describe the market other than colorful and chaotic. They would have made use of modest brick columns , wooden poles and sticks, palm branches and textiles. I searched for some slightly less generic contemporary Nubian marketplaces from Aswan:
  8. Most (if not all) important centers in ancient Kush had a temple to Amun: Naqa, Napata, Meroe, Dangeil, Basa, Kawa, Qasr Ibrim, Sanam, El Hassa, Tabo… I'm afraid it was too common, and too functional to be a wonder. These temple complexes served an important (economic, religious and military) purpose in Kushite society. Too important to make them an "optional" wonder. The cult of Amun formed a kind of shadow government that even challenged Kingship. They operated through this network of temple complexes, and it would be nice to see this reflected in a functional way (metal trickle, and the ability to recruit professional soldiers). And what would we do with the pyramids, if the temple to amun becomes the wonder?
  9. Pyramids and the Temple to Amun Pyramids: Kushites built many different types of pyramids. Here are a few of the most interesting in terms of features: Before the Italian "explorer" Guiseppe Ferlini destroyed more than 40 pyramids in search of treasure in the 1830's, many of the pyramids in Meroe were still largely intact. Temple to Amun: Here are some images for models of the special building, the Temple to Amun, in Napata. All other Kushite temples to Amun including the one at Meroe follow nearly identical patterns:
  10. Hello Hello! First of all, apologies for my absence. I’m back in Belgium, and working full time again. Reuniting with family and friends I haven’t seen in years. Getting important paperwork done. It’s a little hectic, to say the least. @LordGood “I would find the most prominent Kushite-specific techs (ie. I would consider a metal mining passive bonus to emphasize their massive metalworking industry.) and one or two "special buildings". One of those special buildings could be a "cult statue" though I would think Justus would want the freedom to define that template himself in DE for example, the Carthaginians get triple wall health, and they get embassies and Cothons as special buildings Zapotecs have an infantry speed and melee attack bonus at the cost of armor, and they have a ball court special building (or they should, its modelled but doesn't have an entity behind it yet)” I agree. Non-champion Kushite units should have a speed and melee attack bonus at the cost of armor. (Nubian?) Archers should become increasingly accurate as they gain experience (represented by 1 feather, 2 feathers and 3 feathers in their hair). Horses and chariots should have speed and attack bonus. Units should have low food cost. On the flip-side champion units are expensive (high wood and metal cost). Many small things add to a single big advantage: Kushites are good for rushing. The Temple to Amun should be their special building (very Egyptian looking). It should have a small metal trickle (they were economic centers, as much as spiritual) and should be able to recruit an elite unit, called the “warriors of Amun”, modeled after New Kingdom South Egyptian temple guards of Nubian origin, like the Nakhtu-aa (fig 97), with armor piercing hatchets. Obviously, the distinctive Sudanese pyramids were a trademark feature for the Kushites. @wowgetoffyourcellphone “Their pyramids. Full stop. Make these a defining characteristic of the civ somehow. Possibile features: • Make building pyramids a prerequisute for phasing • Make them integral to the economy somehow -- trickle? • Maybe make each new pyramid add to the territory effect of buildings • Each new pyramid can cost more than the last -- see DE cult statues for this • Perhaps all of the above or a combination or something I haven't thought of.” I like those! Don’t know what could be the trickle though? I think “prerequisite for phasing”, “territory effect for buildings” and “increasing cost for each new pyramid” are the winners here. As Lordgood said, instead of a single wonder, they could have three (modest) pyramids, one for every phase. Scythians are cool… Even more unique than the Kushites, in terms of game-play. It will be interesting to see how mobile structures will be implemented. @balduin I kind of agree with you on the market, but not entirely. The pictures you shared look like any generic contemporary market in most places in Africa. Although I like the idea of fabrics covering the stalls. Less formal, more chaotic. Is good...
  11. @balduin Depending on many factors, the development could take anywhere from several months, to several years. Our job is to try and get it done in a good time, without necessarily rushing it. That having said, most of the relevant and reliable visual references for the Kushites are already posted in the forum. With further follow up questions and research, we could definitely flesh out some more of the details, but a lot has already been linked. If LordGood continues to work even at half the speed he is know, we'll be sure to see major progress in the next months. Also, don't forget that most of the structures follow a certain template, within which the specific features of a civ are demonstrated. There are certain paramaters, to keep buildings recognizable, and in line with analogue buildings of other civs. It compromises historical accuracy to some extent, but it keeps the game playable. So some interpretation is unavoidable (even preferable), as long as it is within reasonable limits. There are also very few pop-culture references for these people, which I believe is actually a good thing, in terms of accurately depicting them. We won't fall for the trap of stereotyping them too much, because there aren't many stereotypes about the Kushites (most people only know them from written references). For example, the battering ram will be an interpretation of scant references. And many of the units are going to have to be historically reconstructed from what we know, although Total War modders have already done a great job at that (which means we don't need to stress too much about how units looked). I'll try to contact the department of history in the University of Khartoum, or some Nubian and Cushitic language experts to determine some realistic names for buildings and units. Furthermore, I have no objection to the Kushites being rolled into Terra Magna and Delenda Est. Seems like a logical choice… Also, I like cult statues, and something like the Iberian cult statue feature would fit well. Statues were a symbol of physical and spiritual power and wealth to the Kushites, and they would have fought fiercely to protect them. @balduin the chest of the lion on the left and middle, is decorated with stylised manes (or jewelry?) with a cartouche at the height of it's throat, inscribed with hieroglyphs probably mentioning who commissioned them, or which god they're dedicated to (or both).
  12. I like this. It's similar to how I see the idea of mini-civs. I think with mini-civs, the mercenary camp would be replaced by a small village, with a (simple) civic-center surrounded by some houses and a few gatherers/soldiers. The civ is static (doesn't expand). After capturing the civic-center, you can train mercenary units from it. Each mini-civ would represent a different culture, preferably those cultures surrounding the existing civs in order to create a more cohesive whole in terms of the interconnectedness of the civs already in the game. I do think the ability to destroy them would add an even more interesting dynamic to them. They should initially defend themselves with a small force, until you capture their civic center. If you destroy it, you can't use them anymore. This is interesting because then you could attempt to destroy an enemy's mini-civ, and cut them off from further mercenary supplies, without necessarily having to consolidate your hold over a territory far away from your own. I think it might apply well to DE as well?
  13. @Lion.Kanzen I present to you, intact Kushite lion statues from the temple at Basa: They weigh 2 tons each
  14. Actually, in terms of architectural style and features, LordGood has done an amazing job of modeling these buildings. They're very clearly Kushite. In terms of texture, Kushites used both white lime plaster, and mud-plaster. But white lime plaster was used quite extensively, especially during the more affluent periods (not unlike the Carthaginians). LordGood seems to have gone for a sort of midway option. It looks good for now, but might be eligible for change later, if LordGood or other artists contribute new textures for the texture pack. In terms of decorative paterns LordGood nailed it again. In terms of the "Egyptian feel", that will become more apparent with the temple (lion temple of Apedemak) and the special building (temple to Amun).
  15. Sounds spicy… Care to elaborate? "Mybe a couple of Egyptian style column next to the front door of the barracks, flanked by 2 lions?" I kind of like this. Maybe the doorways can be flanked by kushite stela, inscribed with hieroglyphs, or Meroitic sccript, like this one (although the temple should also have some stela like this):