Autociv mod 0ad enhancer

[Silier]

what do you mean by broken compatibilty check ?

[hyperion]

Well, mods that don't change the simulation can be said to be compatible (simplified) and there is no need to enforce all participants to have the same set/order of installed/loaded mods to be able to play with each other. There was more than one occasion were I wanted to pull my hair because I couldn't even run a replay of a match because of a "wrong order of mod" or similar error message when there shouldn't have been an issue in the first place. Hence a more fine grained mod compatibility model should be devised or refusing to sign mods which "hide" could be considered a regression as far as I understand.

[Silier]

As more mods can overwrite same file, order in which they do it is important else you can get different results, so order of mods is the issue.

[hyperion]

Add some metadata to mods describing their changes for example if an analytical approach is to tricky so a less conservative model can be devised. Just because a mod may change others doesn't mean they do. I mean if I add a mod with some maps nothing changes unless I play those maps. So such a mod should not prevent me from replaying a match played with those maps missing.

 

[nani]

given the thread has been moved can it be added to the official autociv page (https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/24649-autociv-mod-0ad-enhancer/) or say it wasn't me the one who created this new thread pls ? 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, Angen said:

As more mods can overwrite same file, order in which they do it is important else you can get different results, so order of mods is the issue.

Can a replay "reorder" the mods for that one replay, or do we not want replays to have that ability (it could be exploited or something)?

[sarcoma]

On 9/5/2020 at 4:32 AM, odalman said:

I assume that you mean many wall sections built from a turret. Easily fixable by requiring a minimum angle between them.

I assume that you mean for example the "lethal deathboat" with 17 catapults. Could probably be fixed with some effort.

I assume that you mean infinite food from corrals or fields combined with bartering in the market. This gives infinite resources, limited by the time the market needs for the barter rate to regenerate between barters. Seems like a feature. If it can somehow be done instantly it is a bug and probably fixable.

Of the exploits smiley points, only autotrain pertains to nani's mod, which is actually a feature of it and not widely used.

I think by stacked walls he meant layers of palisades.

By stacked siege, a formation trick that leaves units on top of each other, the exact same spot, imagine 10 catas shooting where you can only see one.

Cata ships are a vanilla feature and by the way you only need 9 catas inside, the other 8 were adding nothing.

The market trick(s) are(were) old and fixed. Found and reported by principality: float value gives infinite resources and shift clicking insanely long route between near points for adjacent markets.

[Silier]

12 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Can a replay "reorder" the mods for that one replay, or do we not want replays to have that ability (it could be exploited or something)?

Possibly there could be feature to enable mods required for the replay, but restart of application would be must anyway,

[smiley]

12 hours ago, sarcoma said:

The market trick(s) are(were) old and fixed. Found and reported by principality: float value gives infinite resources and shift clicking insanely long route between near points for adjacent markets

I forgot about that one. I think there was also another exploit. I am second guessing whether it was in the barter code or the tribute code now. This one was also fixed.

The rest are exactly what I meant.

[Stan`]

16 hours ago, nani said:

given the thread has been moved can it be added to the official autociv page (https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/24649-autociv-mod-0ad-enhancer/) or say it wasn't me the one who created this new thread pls ? 

Merged.

[andy5995]

On 5/25/2020 at 1:10 PM, nani said:

version 0.17.1

• Add: Minimap flare.  Press Alt + Mouse right click on top of the minimap to send a flare signal to allies*. Only one flare can be shown at a time. Observers cant send them.
  * Will only be visible to people who also have the mod

Hi @nani, looks like the last version released on mod.io is 0.14.0-2. Where can 0.17.1 be downloaded from?

 

.. Nevermind, I see it on the first post in this thread.

Edited September 9, 2020 by andy5995

[badosu]

On 9/6/2020 at 5:04 AM, Itms said:

but all mods will need a new signature for A24, at which point autociv and others will have to remove this hiding feature in order to appear on mod.io.

Will a refined mod dependency check be included in A24 to compensate for this?

If using balanced-maps requires enabling/disabling all the time just to play vanilla/bal-maps it will practically kill the mod. As an example I would imagine community-maps to be way more popular if they had the 'hide mod' hack implemented, since there are many high quality maps there and quite enjoyable ones at that.

I don't mind letting the user know which mods players are using, as long as:

1. All can see, not only host
2. A refined dependency check is added that allows for mods to be shown while not 'greyeing-out' vanilla games.

With regard to mods adding features that might be considered hacks:

In my opinion any RTS should strive to have as much quality-of-life features implemented while not keeping the game in auto pilot as possible. The idea is to focus players on finding out what their opponent is doing, implement counter strategies, get good trades with superior tactics, be greedy when there's an opening for superior economy, take map control; basically the fundamentals of RTS and what actually makes games interesting.

Even though it's inevitable part of this kind of game for players with enough attention control to be able to always be training units have an edge, this should not be decider of games. As well as other attention grabbing actions, like the assign-to-heal feature of autociv (another possible 'cheat' according to some). I don't use both features and I don't condone using those, but I understand the arguments of those who do so.

A mod that offers such features should be praised in my opinion, nevertheless I agree any such discrepancies should be highlighted in-game in the spirit of fair play or competitiveness.

The points I numbered above detail what I think in practice fix the issue. Another interesting possibility of showing the mods (and ideally offering an option to require mods, when they don't change simulation) is to require anti-cheat/exploit mods. Some of those mentioned before but to recap:

1. Wall/ram/catapults stacking
2. Hill ungarrison abuse
3. Patrol dancing
4. Gaia resource drain
5. Market floating point res gen
6. Some other I forgot

Edited September 9, 2020 by badosu

[badosu]

For the record, it's entirely possible for a game that relies on intense micro management to be enjoyable (e.g. Starcraft 2) I just prefer the alternative (maybe because I can't micro for my life )

But at the same time, games like that usually have a simpler resource model. I see AoE more like 0ad than Starcraft for instance.

Edited September 10, 2020 by badosu

[andy5995]

On 9/9/2020 at 9:25 PM, badosu said:

For the record, it's entirely possible for a game that relies on intense micro management to be enjoyable (e.g. Starcraft 2)

@badosuI think that's only true for some people. I don't micro well either, but I still enjoy 0 A.D.. I'll never be as good as the pros, for my lack of micro skills, but I still enjoy the game and just do my best. Usually it's just me and a friend or two playing against the AI's.. We usually get pretty balanced and enjoyable games.

[badosu]

Not to beat a dead horse, but some examples I just remembered:

In Starcraft 1 you need to assign workers to the mineral lines (the games resource) manually every time they are spawned, and they spawn 1 by 1. Or have to queue the worker again, anyway it's some bullshit like that.

A player that can micro and constantly assign workers for each spawning facility certainly has a major advantage over those who don't. Does that make it a more interesting game or reflect the players strategical skill? I don't think so.

So much that it was fixed in Starcraft 2.

One less extreme example is the auto-scout functionality in AoE2 DE that was recently introduced. It does not perform a significant role in high level tiers in the game but still can be viewed as a QoL improvement to some.

On the other hand, farms need to be constantly reseeded, which requires wood. High level players don't auto-reseed at the early game due to needing to manage tightly their resources at that stage, however this is indispensable in the later game when their attention need to be shifted elsewhere and the resource rampup is smoothier.

Does that mean I think autotrain or autoretreat should be features in the main game? I'm not sure, I'm quite used to how I play the game and I like to think I can be decent without them. But if players discover that this can be a game-changer and makes games more enjoyable in the points that are important, I wouldn't like that to be hampered. Additionally mods that enable improvements like those could be staging grounds for experimental features that improve the game substantially, even differentiating it from run-of-the-mill RTSs.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

Edited September 13, 2020 by badosu

[nani]

version 0.17.9

• Fix: 
  •   Game setup civ assignment: nicks with custom rating now work 
• Updated:
  •  FXAA: using official svn 24 alpha version (should fix some problems with some cards). Kudos @vladislavbelov
  •  Sharpening shader: using official svn 24 alpha version CAS instead of current one. Kudos to @OptimusShepard
• Added:
  •   Game setup: unlimited resources option [command /resourcesUnlimited]
  •   Readme: read me about the mod inside 0ad [press Shift + F4 to open]

[ffffffff]

3 hours ago, nani said:

press Shift + F4 to open

Alt+f4 for @borg-

[nani]

21 hours ago, go2die said:

Enhancement idea: ignore civs for autoselect 

The host of the game can decide which civs are allowed by setting up some variable:

/civfilter nocelts:-britons|-gauls

/civfilter archersonly:-all|+kushites|+carthagians|+blabla|+blabla1

/civsfilteron

/civsfilteroff

+ notification for joiners  of the game

Looks like nice idea but IMO this is unnecessary as regular chat already does the job well and would lead to more confusion. New commands imho should be things that you cant currently do directly in gamesetup in any other way, so wont add  ty for suggestion tho

[badosu]

Well, that's a good idea but perhaps in the scope of a map/civ pool mod I suggested some time ago.

Still it would help to have a text-based one in autociv

[vladislavbelov]

I remember there was a discussion about round minimaps here. D2216 was just committed, so it's possible to have round minimaps now (at least visually).

[asterix]

1 hour ago, vladislavbelov said:

I remember there was a discussion about round minimaps here. D2216 was just committed, so it's possible to have round minimaps now (at least visually).

What about minimap expand and minimap flare from page 4 onward can it be ported in core 0ad 0.24? @nani

[vladislavbelov]

6 minutes ago, asterix said:

What about minimap expand and minimap flare from page 4 onward can it be ported in core 0ad 0.24? @nani

Expand can be added by someone (it's just JS GUI changes). About flares, @Imarok has a patch about ping on map.

[maroder]

Not sure if you are looking for more suggestions for your mod,

but something i always wish that the game would have is an overview of the units or tecs that are being produced/ researched at the moment, so you dont have to check your control groups or every few seconds to see if they are idle.

Something like this: (upper right corner)

I was always wondering if am the only one for whom this might be helpful.

But anyways, really great mod. It does enhance the gameplay quite a bit.

Edited November 13, 2020 by maroder
typo

[nani]

1 hour ago, maroder said:

Not sure if you are looking for more suggestions for your mod,

but something i always wish that the game would have is an overview of the units or tecs that are being produced/ researched at the moment, so you dont have to check your control groups or every few seconds to see if they are idle.

Something like this: (upper right corner)

I was always wondering if am the only one for whom this might be helpful.

But anyways, really great mod. It does enhance the gameplay quite a bit.

Fear not, @badosu has you covered !

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by nani

[maroder]

Oh wow i thought the spec mod is only for spectating, but i will definitely check it out then.