Feedbacks from A26 SVN tests

[Silier]

18 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said:

Very easy to reproduce

Yes, formations have clearance of siege units so if siege can't pass, they won't.

It is not currently possible to set it dynamically.

[Freagarach]

7 hours ago, Player of 0AD said:

Deactivate battaillons in the settings, put some soldiers into some formations, send them somewhere and later check for idle units. Battaillons appear in your selection.

I can't reproduce.

7 hours ago, Player of 0AD said:

Will happen after a won fight, at least very often

Please provide a (minimal) replay. That will help us debug.

7 hours ago, Player of 0AD said:

Try to send a huge formation to cut wood

Works perfectly on my side. What do you call huge? (I tried up to 150.) Please provide a minimal replay for this.

7 hours ago, Player of 0AD said:

Both of this happens in the replay

Could be https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4550.

[Player of 0AD]

By the way the field which shows fps, game time and real time covers now  the first technology you are researching. So you cant see which one it is and its timestamp.

Chineses seem to be too OP

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, Player of 0AD said:

By the way the field which shows fps, game time and real time covers now  the first technology you are researching. So you cant see which one it is and its timestamp.

Hmm, this didn't used to be the case, but you're right, I've noticed this too for quite some time now. In a previous alpha opening these counters would shift the tech queue downward to make room.

[Stan`]

4 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Hmm, this didn't used to be the case, but you're right, I've noticed this too for quite some time now. In a previous alpha opening these counters would shift the tech queue downward to make room.

Maybe @bb_ knows 

[Player of 0AD]

1 hour ago, Freagarach said:

I can't reproduce.

Please provide a (minimal) replay. That will help us debug.

Works perfectly on my side. What do you call huge? (I tried up to 150.) Please provide a minimal replay for this.

Could be https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4550.

The replay is now unfortunately not really minimal. I've been trying to reproduce the bug where idle soldiers are not shown as idle all the time and it happened only at the the very end, at like minute 49. In the southeast there is a military colony which my formation has captured and little bit later its soldiers get stuck and if you go to my perspective and check for idle units you will see that they are not listed.

Around minute 2 i make a small formation which I place somewhere, and if you go to my perspective and select idle units you will have suddenly selected a battaillon even though battaillons are deactivated (do that in your settings).

Everything in between is unfortunately irrelevant.

Furthermore I discovered another bug which is probably easily reproducable:

- put 4 starting infantry into a box formation.

- let them cut wood at a normal tree

- execute with them an attack move (only attacking units,  which is ctrl+q+rightclick by default on the ground somewhere)

- they will not move at all and you get an error message

formationBugs.zip

[maroder]

19 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said:

Furthermore I discovered another bug which is probably easily reproducable:

- put 4 starting infantry into a box formation.

- let them cut wood at a normal tree

- execute with them an attack move (only attacking units,  which is ctrl+q+rightclick by default on the ground somewhere)

- they will not move at all and you get an error message

Should be fixed in the newest svn:

https://code.wildfiregames.com/rP26651

[Yekaterina]

Wei Qing hero is hyper OP. Must nerf him a bit. 

-10 health per second... put him with a few champ cavs and charge into enemy army , then all die in 10 seconds...

[Player of 0AD]

Unlike almost every other unit, ministers dont give loot. Maybe change it?

The chinese catafalque is very OP, just compare it to the ptolemy catafalque. What about nerfing it accordingly?

49 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

Wei Qing hero is hyper OP. Must nerf him a bit. 

-10 health per second... put him with a few champ cavs and charge into enemy army , then all die in 10 seconds...

At the other hand: You do know that the chariot does damage only in a 8 meter radius which is like 3 real meters?

Edited March 16, 2022 by Player of 0AD

[Philip the Swaggerless]

Oh!  The Macedonian market is still exploitable due to their barter bonus.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

28 minutes ago, Philip the Swaggerless said:

Oh!  The Macedonian market is still exploitable due to their barter bonus.

Let's just remove it for now and come up with something better (less exploitable) for A27 @Stan` @Freagarach @Silier @wraitii @bb_

[real_tabasco_sauce]

6 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Let's just remove it for now and come up with something better (less exploitable) for A27

I agree. I still think some siege related team bonus is appropriate but this can be for A27, alongside other team bonus adjustments perhaps.

[Player of 0AD]

A team bonus for siege will be very bad. There are teambonuses needed which can compete whith the ptolemy and iberian ones. I suggest to replace the macedonian bonus by one bonus wood per second.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

38 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said:

A team bonus for siege will be very bad. There are teambonuses needed which can compete whith the ptolemy and iberian ones. I suggest to replace the macedonian bonus by one bonus wood per second.

Perhaps at 2/3 the rate of ptol food bonus since it “wood” be more OP in early game.

^weirdjoke for you lol

I definitely think we need competitive and creative economic team bonuses.

Britons

Persians

Carthage

Athens

[Fabius]

On 16/03/2022 at 4:50 PM, Yekaterina said:

Wei Qing hero is hyper OP. Must nerf him a bit. 

-10 health per second... put him with a few champ cavs and charge into enemy army , then all die in 10 seconds...

So auto delete citizen troops and effectively counter champions of any category bar elephants, though you can kite them so GG to them too. My initial reaction to this is depression, its already hard to get citizens to function against champions, now we must fight a health draining champion block? Did I mention walking into someones Eco and watching their Eco die around you, because I would totally do that, and unless the guy is on foot you aren't stopping me either, even with an alarm attached to the health drain, five seconds and a probably decent chunk of your Eco is dead. Then I just march my own army in and you dead by defeat in detail.

Granted I have not played with Han so I am simply going off my understanding of Yekaterina's above commentary, but to me this seems like a recipe for disaster.

[Player of 0AD]

Ministers can capture buildings which other units cant capture (f.e. fields, walls...)   - that's broken

[faction02]

19 hours ago, Fabius said:

So auto delete citizen troops and effectively counter champions of any category bar elephants, though you can kite them so GG to them too. My initial reaction to this is depression, its already hard to get citizens to function against champions, now we must fight a health draining champion block? Did I mention walking into someones Eco and watching their Eco die around you, because I would totally do that, and unless the guy is on foot you aren't stopping me either, even with an alarm attached to the health drain, five seconds and a probably decent chunk of your Eco is dead. Then I just march my own army in and you dead by defeat in detail.

Granted I have not played with Han so I am simply going off my understanding of Yekaterina's above commentary, but to me this seems like a recipe for disaster.

The aura on which the 10 damages per second are made is in fact extremely small with 8 meters radius. Even a pikeman attacking this hero can manage to be far enough to be unaffected. To kill a complete eco, the hero would have to stop 3 sec right next to each woman in some case, shoot an arrow on another one then move. He could kill a few women at once with his aura only if they are too close to each other like on a field for example.  

The damages to an economy would be probably the same as those done with about 6-8 cavalry units. Disaster are more likely to arise in the rare cases in which that hero can go next to a large group of enemy soldiers without being targetted (health draining ignore armor). That might be because the units are already targetting something hard to kill like the champions in Yekatarina's example.

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by faction02

[Fabius]

39 minutes ago, faction02 said:

The aura on which the 10 damages per second are made is in fact extremely small with 8 meters radius. Even a pikeman attacking this hero can manage to be far enough to be unaffected. To kill a complete eco, the hero would have to stop 3 sec right next to each woman in some case, shoot an arrow on another one then move. He could kill a few women at once with his aura only if they are too close to each other like on a field for example.  

The damages to an economy would be probably the same as those done with about 6-8 cavalry units. Disaster are more likely to be arise in the rare cases in which that hero can go next to a large group of enemy soldiers without being targetted (health draining ignore armor). That might be because the units are already targetting something hard to kill like the champions in Yekatarina's example.

 

Ok, thanks for clarification  

[Fabius]

1 hour ago, Player of 0AD said:

Ministers can capture buildings which other units cant capture (f.e. fields, walls...)   - that's broken

Walls get ignored and by the time you capture an opponents fields you have usually already defeated him.

[Player of 0AD]

56 minutes ago, Fabius said:

Walls get ignored and by the time you capture an opponents fields you have usually already defeated him.

Nope. Ministers break the iberian walls too easily. Wouldn't be surprised if they can also capture monuments and laotzi-gates

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

1 hour ago, Player of 0AD said:

Nope. Ministers break the iberian walls too easily. Wouldn't be surprised if they can also capture monuments and laotzi-gates

There’s no way that’s not a bug tho right?

Surely we can come up with a more creative and more balanced hero aura than -10 hp/second. This will either be too little range—> useless or too much range—> game-breaking. What is the historical context for the hero? 
 

Wei Qing was a leader who remarkably rose from poverty to take on his roles. Perhaps this can “inspire” his troops and they rank up 1.5x as fast as normal. I think this is way more balanced and has implications for the units you select for his armies.

[Fabius]

45 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

There’s no way that’s not a bug tho right?

Surely we can come up with a more creative and more balanced hero aura than -10 hp/second. This will either be too little range—> useless or too much range—> game-breaking. What is the historical context for the hero? 
 

Wei Qing was a leader who remarkably rose from poverty to take on his roles. Perhaps this can “inspire” his troops and they rank up 1.5x as fast as normal. I think this is way more balanced and has implications for the units you select for his armies.

That sounds much more interesting and meaningful than a death aura which sounds straight out of a fantasy game.

[Fabius]

2 hours ago, Player of 0AD said:

Nope. Ministers break the iberian walls too easily. Wouldn't be surprised if they can also capture monuments and laotzi-gates

If someone wants to use ministers as sappers I am fine with it, its different and we have a lack of interesting random features. Monuments have no capture points therefore cannot be captured even by territory creep so no worries there, though it would be very funny if they did. If it doesn't have capture points it can't be captured period, I would assume this applies to the gates as well.

[chrstgtr]

On 16/03/2022 at 5:47 PM, Philip the Swaggerless said:

Oh!  The Macedonian market is still exploitable due to their barter bonus.

 

On 16/03/2022 at 6:17 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Let's just remove it for now and come up with something better (less exploitable) for A27 @Stan` @Freagarach @Silier @wraitii @bb_

What's the issue? Is it just that you can "create" res by trading with yourself? Doesn't that quickly disappear as rates get adjusted after you trade a few times?  

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

5 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

 

What's the issue? Is it just that you can "create" res by trading with yourself? Doesn't that quickly disappear as rates get adjusted after you trade a few times?  

If you trade back and forth between the same resources, the rate behavior increases, so it is pretty easy to generate resources.