[Feature] Garrison Domestic Animals into the Corral to get a <ResourceTrickle> of Food

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

8 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

I have not heard. Since Nescio patches I don't install patches.

 

It would be nice to do that again, a list of patches that need testing.

The link to the patch is in the top comment. Enjoy!

[LetswaveaBook]

@Stan` I would like the values for this patch to be optimized, but most importantly is that it gets accepted.

Is there any chance the patch could be adopted in A26?

[Stan`]

1 hour ago, LetswaveaBook said:

@Stan` I would like the values for this patch to be optimized, but most importantly is that it gets accepted.

Is there any chance the patch could be adopted in A26?

Well I don't know. You need to balancing team to agree on values. Then accept the patch. Then either @maroder or @Freagarach to commit it

[LetswaveaBook]

@real_tabasco_sauce@BreakfastBurrito_007@Player of 0AD@alre@Dizaka@Philip the Swaggerless@Yekaterina@Micfild@Lion.Kanzen@chrstgtr@ValihrAnt@borg-, you currently have the roles of balancing advisors.

Personally, I think the values are a little lower than they could be. However I think they are high enough to be an advantage in some niche builds.

So for me the numbers would be acceptable. I would like to hear your thoughts.

 

[Stan`]

Please comment on https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4380

[alre]

I believe the values are a lot lower than they could be.

but I don't like the idea at large, I don't see any fun in it, and I think it could actually harm gameplay if it was buffed. so I'd rather see it useless than used with profit.

[LetswaveaBook]

33 minutes ago, alre said:

useless

I don't think the current values make it useless in competitive play. Currently it seems to me corralling only can be justified if you use the cavalry to collect the food soon.

if you spend the food on livestock and you only gather them 2 minutes later, then you probably could have done something more useful than training livestock.

 

With the current values, you can afford not to collect the livestock immediately and store them in the corral as until your cavalry comes around to collect their food.

38 minutes ago, alre said:

but I don't like the idea at large, I don't see any fun in it

The fun in it is that it could help a well-planed cavalry build and it gives players another option to manage their economy.

[alre]

45 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:

With the current values, you can afford not to collect the livestock immediately and store them in the corral as until your cavalry comes around to collect their food.

I considered something like that. I imagine it's hardly impactful or worth the micro, so it's fine by me.

46 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:

The fun in it is that it could help a well-planed cavalry build and it gives players another option to manage their economy.

It's nothing like that. It's just a micro play option that provides a tiny buff to the corral strategy. good, because corrals have been significantly nerfed by the animals-by-age change, but personally, I would rather have the simpler setup.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

I read the discussion on the code page thing, and @chrstgtr had mentioned about 17 women full upgraded farmers was equivalent to garrisoned cows for one set of values discussed there. I am a bit worried about the balance results of this feature relating to cavalry, Persians (new food trickle buildings), and raiding. 
 

I would like to see the system have some kind of management aspect to it, rather than it being “set up and forget”.  I know there is no precedent for such a mechanic in 0ad, but what if the trickle built up at the corrals instead of going directly to the bank, and you had to send a woman to collect it or “milk the cows”. I am thinking the woman would gather it at a super fast rate from the corral and then walk to a dropsite.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by BreakfastBurrito_007

[Freagarach]

10 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

I know there is no precedent for such a mechanic in 0ad, but what if the trickle built up at the corrals instead of going directly to the bank, and you had to send a woman to collect it or “milk the cows”.

Not possible, yet. (But also on my list. xD)

[Lion.Kanzen]

On 01/08/2022 at 11:44 PM, Freagarach said:

Not possible, yet. (But also on my list. xD)

Come on...

I want this ...

-----

Freagarach my friend...

 

(pd:Do not notice that I am trying  imitating some user).

[Freagarach]

For reference, this idea has been implemented in vanilla in https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/27244 and https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/27487.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

9 hours ago, Freagarach said:

For reference, this idea has been implemented in vanilla in https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/27244 and https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/27487.

[Lion.Kanzen]

I recently uploaded a gameplay.

 

The tactic is to use it long term.

And as a food supply for when you can't defend the fields.

In lategane it serves to move a large workforce of women from the countryside(farming) to other tasks (mining).

 

I would like the idea of making this trickle feature resources for late gameplay.(An industry that produces coins ( metal).

 

Many delenda est ideas now seem more tempting.

[sternstaub]

On 11/02/2023 at 10:13 AM, Lion.Kanzen said:

trickle feature resources for late gameplay.

Isn't this what a wonder does? 

[Lion.Kanzen]

11 hours ago, sternstaub said:

Isn't this what a wonder does? 

Not with food.(At least that I remember).

In addition, the possibility of starting from phase 1.

[sternstaub]

5 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Not with food.(At least that I remember).

i believe that it gives 1 of each res every 2 seconds.

5 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

In addition, the possibility of starting from phase 1.

this is a nice idea per se and i did not want to contradict. what i wanted to say is that there already is a mechanic like this already, so maybe they can be connected. Or the corrals can be for food trickle and the wonder does III + IV res trickle. Or there can be basic techs for res trickle on the corral and advanced tech on the wonder.

i just like it when similiar concepts are kept together.

[Lion.Kanzen]

another suggestion is to give a x2 boost with some research.

-Animal husbandry(tech) maybe.

-Selective breeding.

-Domestication 

-Pastoralism

 

[AIEND]

Based on what reality principle? Milk from cows and sheep?

[real_tabasco_sauce]

I am a little bit concerned about this feature.

If a corral can both garrison livestock and train livestock, then one could use autoqueue to establish an exponentially growing amount of unraidable, 0 pop food economy.

This wouldn't be great in the early game (I think) but later in the game, making more and more corrals and autoqueing to fill each one from one another could result in a disastrous gameplay consequences.

Players could make dozens of corrals just to garrison each one. Then, there is much more pop space for more champion cavalry AND it is economy that can't be raided, at least like women can be raided.

I think if the trickle is low enough to avoid this, then it will be weak/unused and if it is higher, then it will probably be used as above which I don't think is the intended use case of this feature.

[Lion.Kanzen]

31 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

This wouldn't be great in the early game (I think) but later in the game, making more and more corrals and autoqueing to fill each one from one another could result in a disastrous gameplay consequences.

We can limit it but in the first phase the wood could be an obstacle. and also the training of animals by food.

In the second phase it is already a snowball.

[Lion.Kanzen]

46 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Players could make dozens of corrals just to garrison each one. Then, there is much more pop space for more champion cavalry AND it is economy that can't be raided, at least like women can be raided.

5-10 corrals could be assigned per each CC.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Lion.Kanzen

[chrstgtr]

3 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I am a little bit concerned about this feature.

If a corral can both garrison livestock and train livestock, then one could use autoqueue to establish an exponentially growing amount of unraidable, 0 pop food economy.

This wouldn't be great in the early game (I think) but later in the game, making more and more corrals and autoqueing to fill each one from one another could result in a disastrous gameplay consequences.

Players could make dozens of corrals just to garrison each one. Then, there is much more pop space for more champion cavalry AND it is economy that can't be raided, at least like women can be raided.

I think if the trickle is low enough to avoid this, then it will be weak/unused and if it is higher, then it will probably be used as above which I don't think is the intended use case of this feature.

There is a animal pop limit so it’s usefulness is limited and similar to ice houses. I’m not worried about it

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I wish we could have made it like a storage place for animal "relics" you capture around the map. 

[Lion.Kanzen]

2 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I wish we could have made it like a storage place for animal "relics" you capture around the map. 

I was thinking the same thing, relics while optional but should be as a bonus in standard mode. As well as treasures there should be hidden and autogenerated relics on the map, to be kept in the temple or in the or/and palaces (SB1-3).

 

Relics are originally worship fetishes, but they can also be spoils of war that generate pride for the nation that finds them.

 

A lost Roman Eagle(Aquila)?

Edited February 25, 2023 by Lion.Kanzen