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===[COMMITTED]=== Animations

Alexandermb

By Alexandermb,
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Alexandermb Primus Pilus

Alexandermb

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After 5 Days of cleaning, animating, moving, deleting, searching, bug finding... It is done! Hopefully theres nothing much to be done later but it may be something i've missed. 

Clearly tweaking the whole cavalry isn't a small thing, those are thousands of actors + a lot of animations.

Variants used by capes for cavalry:

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You can copy this variants and replace the ones in your cavalry actors in order to match the new ones whitout too much trouble.

You can also use Notepad++ Search tool for replace in batch all actors whitout too much trouble like i've did, otherwise if i would have done it 1 by 1 it would had too me weeks to finish:

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Red: Old variant example.

Blue: Replacement copying the variant.

For horses this are the new variants:

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Enrique
Enrique

Here's the cavalry animations... I know it is quite late, but better than nothing: https://a.uguu.se/IP7Ov5YBmDhO_cavalryanimations.rar  (seems it expires in 24h), I could upload somewhere e

Alexandermb
Alexandermb

Since aspis remake i had problems finding the proper position of the pikeman shield, but also struggle every time i try to properly place a sheath or a quiver, so i had this plan: Add a fully prop

Enrique
Enrique

Hey, I may have some .blend files that may be useful... I'll take a look and post them here

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Alexandermb Primus Pilus

Alexandermb

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Been working slowly on improve Camel animations and armature with the new knowledge i have been gathering with animations since i've did my first updated with the camel.

So far i've reached enough material to only update camel but i want to deliver the camel with at least melee animations for modders and main game if its possible.

I need you guys to let me know wich factions could make use of a melee 2H spearman or Spear+Shield camel cavalry to make at least a placeholder entity and test it.

@wowgetoffyourcellphone @Sundiata @wackyserious @Genava55 @Nescio @Lion.Kanzen

Only the factions and the visual reference, not the history behind them because im very limited with internet and can't read often the forums too much crash and loading times for a single page.

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Lion.Kanzen Imperator

Lion.Kanzen

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Camelry?

Hummm, Persians...Egyptians (Ptolemies), Parthians,  Nabateans , Palmyrene.

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Genava55 Primus Pilus

Genava55

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  On 19/12/2019 at 12:26 AM, Lion.Kanzen said:

Camelry?

Hummm, Persians...Egyptians (Ptolemies), Parthians,  Nabateans , Palmyrene.

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Seleucids used them as well but as mounted archers. That is probably the question of Alexandermb, to know which civ could have used them as a melee cavalry. Arabs probably (Saba, Nabata etc.) and Persians because of Arabs mercenaries.

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Lion.Kanzen Imperator

Lion.Kanzen

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  On 19/12/2019 at 6:43 AM, Genava55 said:

Seleucids used them as well but as mounted archers. That is probably the question of Alexandermb, to know which civ could have used them as a melee cavalry. Arabs probably (Saba, Nabata etc.) and Persians because of Arabs mercenaries.

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But have in mind future things like mini civs and possible mercenaries.

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Sundiata Primus Pilus

Sundiata

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  On 19/12/2019 at 12:17 AM, Alexandermb said:

Only the factions and the visual reference, not the history behind them because im very limited with internet and can't read often the forums too much crash and loading times for a single page.

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Dromedaries were apparently first domesticated in Southern Arabia. Introduction of camels to the Nile Valley is a poorly understood. They're almost absent from Ancient Egyptian art, which is a little strange. Some, myself included believe this is because of cultural reasons. They may have considered it an unclean, or even "offensive" animal. It was occasionally depicted though, so they knew what a camel was. Camels are used primarily by desert nomads or pastoralists in arid regions, and people who were used to life along the Nile, avoid the desert. From the Ptolemaic Period onwards, camels are better attested, possibly because of the Nabataean and Bedouin connection, and Greek connections across the Middle East.

There seem to have been wild camels in East Africa since Pre-Historic times. I was surprised to find out recently that camel bones were found in Neolithic sites in Nubia. It's very possible that these were wild ancestors of domestic camels that were being hunted, although the spread of domestic dromedaries is not yet fully understood, and domestic dromedaries appear at very early dates in Somalia as well (Sudan and Somalia are home to about 70% of the total world population of camels today). It's possible these wild camels were hunted to extinction. Camels start (re-)appearing more frequently in the archaeological record of Lower Nubia from the early Napatan Period (at Qasr Ibrim), possibly even earlier in the 1st millennium BC. Actual depictions of camels in Kushite art only seem to appear in the 1st century BC, Meroitic Period, and they are depicted with riding gear. Perhaps these depictions simply illustrate growing influence of the Blemmyes, and an abandonment of the pharaonic taboo on camels (one Meroitic royal chapel features a fine relief of a camel, unheard of in Egyptian art).

At what point camels were first employed in a military context by Kushites (or their "foreign" levies/mercenaries from the arid regions East of the Nile/Nubian Desert) is entirely unknown to me. I suspect they would have been employed in such a context as early as they were adopted by the Eastern Desert peoples. Kushites faced camels in a military context as early as the Kushite-Assyrian wars of the 7th century BC. It's generally believed that Egyptians started adopting camels in larger numbers after the Persian conquest of Egypt in the 6th century BC. 

How they were equipped is difficult to say with confidence, but more recent Beja camel forces were equipped primarily with lances, javelins, swords, round shields and linen/cotton wrapped around the waist. There are a very large amount of crude graffito from Meroë and Musawwarat es Sufra depicting camel warriors, but these pieces are very difficult to date. Most of them are believed to be medieval, and depict mostly swordsmen on camelback. 

Domestic camels seem to be absent from the North Western Sahara until the the first century BC. Carthaginians are not known to have used them. Interestingly Julius Caesar actually captured 22 camels from King Juba of Numidia in the 1st century BC, North West Africa. 

Oddly camels are well represented in Central and South Western Saharan rock art. The so called "Camel Period" in Saharan rock art is believed to begin around 1000 BC, about 2 centuries after the beginning of the "Horse Period", 1200 BC (although the dates are still debated). These are depictions of warriors on camel back, carrying spears, round shields, swords and sometimes feathers in their hair, some perhaps wearing turbans. They look like "proto-Tuaregs" and are closely related to Libyan warrior figures, but are found as far south as Niger and Chad. Very possibly/probably there is a Garamantian connection, although outside of this rock art which also exists in Libya, little is known about the importance of camels in the Western Sahara before the common era. 

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Nescio Primus Pilus

Nescio

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  On 19/12/2019 at 12:17 AM, Alexandermb said:

I need you guys to let me know wich factions could make use of a melee 2H spearman or Spear+Shield camel cavalry to make at least a placeholder entity and test it.

Expand  

Only desert-dwelling peoples (“Arabs”) fought from dromedary camel-back; they occassionally served as auxiliaries or mercenaries for (or against) larger empires (Assyrians, Persians, Seleucids), but there is not really a need to create separate actors for different civilizations. Basically:

  • Arab camel archer
  • Arab camel javelineer
  • Arab camel spearman (just in case)
  • Arab camel swordsman
    • The sword in question was very long (four cubits) and very thin; basicallly it was 2 meter-long needle, probably only useful for piercing; see Livy below.

Arab camels serving in Xerxes I's army (480 BC) are attested by Herodotus:

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Arab camels serving in Antiochus III's army at the battle of Magnesia (190 BC) are attested by Livy:

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and by Appian, apparently deriving from the same source:

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Although it's possible Arab camels served in a Ptolemaic army (the Nabateans were allied with them), I don't know of any actual evidence for that.

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Sundiata Primus Pilus

Sundiata

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Here's a depiction of a camel from the pyramid chapel of King Arikhankharer, (Begrawiya, pyramid 10), c. 15 AD:

Kingdom of Kush Kushite camel relief.jpg

Note that it's already highly developed, stylistically, indicating a longer standing familiarity with the subject.

 

Here's a Meroitic bronze figurine of camel belonging to King Natakamani, Arikhankarer's father and predecessor, from Pyramid 5, Begrawiya, "around or earlier than 1 BC to c. 20 AD"

Kingdom of Kush Kushite bronze camel figurine meroitic period.jpg

07_arts_lion.jpg

Again, note the developed nature of the style, anatomy and seating position.  

 

The above saddle is comparable to the post Meroitic saddle from Qustul:

1Saddle,_Nubia,_Qustul,_Cemetery_L,_Noubadian,_X-Group_culture,_c._375_AD,_described_as_the_world's_oldest_known_saddle_to_use_a_frame_-_Oriental_Institute_Museum,_University_of_Chicago_-_DSC08071.jpg

 

Most of the camel graffito at Musawwarat are believed to be medieval, but some are believed to be Meroitic. In particular, those figurines where the rider is placed in front of the hump. From the post Meroitic period, apparently they started sitting on top of the hump, although the above shared camel figurine depicts a camel with saddle on top of its hump, so the dating criteria might need some nuancing.

Screen Shot 2017-07-27 at 12.29.41.png

 

Camels were even of importance to the Nobatae (or Noba, related to the modern Nuba of Kordofan), who start forming some kind of military aristocracy in Kush from the late Meroitic period, and were sometimes buried with large numbers of camel sacrifices in the AD period.

Basically for the Blemmyes mercenary camels in the Kushite roster, Beja camel riders should be your main source of inspiration. They're the descendants of the Blemmyes and the Medjay and still maintained a very archaic culture up till the early 20th century, sometimes still wearing the distinctive wrapped linnen or cotton cloths around their waist, and still sporting the same half afro-half locked hairstyle they're depicted with in Meroitc scenes. They even maintained pre-islamic and pre-christian religious traditions to a degree into recent times. For weapons, swords, lances and javelins were preferred. I'd love to add bow and arrows to that but I haven't come across anything like that before in Sudan. 

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Sundiata Primus Pilus

Sundiata

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  On 19/12/2019 at 7:54 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

What about this?

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Bedouin

https://www.google.com.gh/search?hl=en-GH&tbs=sbi:AMhZZisDGjAFAbU9Ely5WTCevSFA6sjixo1qV7Dw8n8Xuo12RMTZbFKv-ovtjBrVNh2OPj7S2fHdWuw14sHMMYt9aq8XZlwFH8L742XbDAwt7Tsm6VdrabUtGaB7Auk2QSisrx5vRwRSQHP8goi0LKkGG4PxURgSPZg6qAOMjMw-3F5X0QiaIdkXzxmv0N9URloWeqY2mGcnaIFnZkrGVdl0eNV0qCzurn98JqVis-uusvrMHUfgc2_1ZA-2SrJbqSMDj8oTQAVNGy7XtxkRyNfG4ZGyixCAHwv2v_1pFkUscoAVdwqOrnv7z0BlOtslwWwGyudacqYT_1x&ei=HGL9XY3hHMma1fAPjPeR6Ak&start=0&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwiN37uSucXmAhVJTRUIHYx7BJ04MhDy0wN6BAgHECs&biw=1440&bih=751

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Lion.Kanzen Imperator

Lion.Kanzen

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  On 21/12/2019 at 12:07 AM, Sundiata said:

Bedouin

https://www.google.com.gh/search?hl=en-GH&tbs=sbi:AMhZZisDGjAFAbU9Ely5WTCevSFA6sjixo1qV7Dw8n8Xuo12RMTZbFKv-ovtjBrVNh2OPj7S2fHdWuw14sHMMYt9aq8XZlwFH8L742XbDAwt7Tsm6VdrabUtGaB7Auk2QSisrx5vRwRSQHP8goi0LKkGG4PxURgSPZg6qAOMjMw-3F5X0QiaIdkXzxmv0N9URloWeqY2mGcnaIFnZkrGVdl0eNV0qCzurn98JqVis-uusvrMHUfgc2_1ZA-2SrJbqSMDj8oTQAVNGy7XtxkRyNfG4ZGyixCAHwv2v_1pFkUscoAVdwqOrnv7z0BlOtslwWwGyudacqYT_1x&ei=HGL9XY3hHMma1fAPjPeR6Ak&start=0&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwiN37uSucXmAhVJTRUIHYx7BJ04MhDy0wN6BAgHECs&biw=1440&bih=751

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Yes, lancer, which civ ?, traditions, Saharan I guess but I'm not African or desert expert.

This can be a good representation of Garamantian, did garamantian use camelry as melee camelry?

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Sundiata Primus Pilus

Sundiata

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  On 21/12/2019 at 12:55 AM, Lion.Kanzen said:

Yes, lancer, which civ ?, traditions, Saharan I guess but I'm not African or desert expert.

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In 0AD's timeframe "Bedouins" were largely confined to the Eastern deserts of Egypt and primarily Arabia. Essentially Nescio's "Arabs". The nomads of the Deserts West of the Nile are distinguished as "Libyan", another very broad term. 

 

  On 21/12/2019 at 12:55 AM, Lion.Kanzen said:

This can be a good representation of Garamantian, did garamantian use camelry as melee camelry?

Expand  

There's this weird popular mantra that Romans introduced camels to (North) Africa in the AD period, insinuating that Garamantes didn't use camels in the BC period. But even Roman sources place camels among the indigenous people of the North Western Sahara by the first century BC latest... Libyan (and other Saharan) rock art also says otherwise, and depicts camels from the so-called "Camel Period" which may have started as early as 1000 BC. 

Lances and javelins are most common: 

Libyan-Rock-Art-Camels.jpg

CHAENP0100035.jpg

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Alexandermb Primus Pilus

Alexandermb

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included enough animations for Swordsman, Spearman, Javelinist, Archer, Lancer. Shield and No Shield Variant. New Death animation, new sitting idle animation for fauna camel.

Overall improvement of the camel animations and mesh fixing some issues such as gathering meat legs being broken.

Will notify when i upload the files.

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Carltonus Duplicarius

Carltonus

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Cape bug also applies to Pericles when part of a phalanx.

Also, Pericles and Agis cannot assume phalanx animations when in formation with other hoplites.

@wowgetoffyourcellphone, how about your hoplite heroes such as those for Thebes and other dismounted ones?

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