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Genava55

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Genava55 last won the day on January 5

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  1. @Nescio I did a list in the past in this thread for the buildings. I can do the rest one day for all the units and others buildings if it is necessary: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/24495-celtic-reference/&do=findComment&comment=360969 https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/24495-celtic-reference/&do=findComment&comment=360975
  2. The difficulty in this case is more about that nothing is converging to a single root in PIE. Latin, Greek, Germanic languages and Slavic languages use different roots for the slings. I am not a linguist thus I do not know why they do not use something related to the old Breton “Talmorion” with this supposed evolution for the word sling: *Telksmis (PIE) => *Telmis (Proto-Celtic) => Telm/Talm in medieval Celtic. Maybe because the word Talmorion is related to the Roman army in Aremorica during the 5th century AD. Maybe I do not know some flaws about it. Yep, I suggested this because it should be better to keep the light-cavalry to the Britons. And it could be a nice difference between the two rosters. Since the Gauls have a very strong cavalry, mostly developed later, we can limit it for the post-village phases. It is possible as well. I proposed this because the Gauls and the Germans share this use of an irregular cavalry where they can fight both on foot and mounted. There are even accounts of mixed formation of horsemen and footmen griping the horse of their comrade to keep the pace. The accounts of Plutarch for the Gauls at Carrhae describe them as lightly armed after the piece I quoted. It is why I suggested a special cavalry with anti-cavalry bonus. It could be moved in the town phase as well. If it is accepted, I have some idea to mix some elements from the Bastarnae to make it nice and enjoyable. Only a suggestion to balance the roster. I know that some people want to nerf the Celtic factions. In addition, it is better to have different rosters for the Britons and the Gauls. In the historical accounts, the sword is often mentioned for the Gauls, the Galatians and the Britons. But it is difficult to tell how reliable are these accounts. From an archeological perspective, there is a few statistics. For the end of the fourth century to the half of the third century BC, 96% of the warrior burials in the upper half of France have a sword in it and 55% for the warrior burials in Hungary. For the sanctuaries from the fourth to the second century BC, the swords are always the most frequent weapons, with a peak during the second half of the third century BC: three swords for one spearhead. The reasons for this importance of the sword in the fourth and third century is the appearance of two different types and two different panoplies. In the burials of the end of the fourth and third century, the long-sword is always combined with a spearhead but it exists a slightly shorter version with a larger ferrule/chape at the end of the scabbard that is found without any spears in the burials. However, the interpretation of these statistics is difficult. The swords are clearly more frequent on the continent than in the Isles but it could be caused by different burial tradition. You can see the differences between the two panoplies below:
  3. Genava55

    ===[TASK]=== Celtic British Shields (Britons)

    Witham shield Grimthorpe Shield Other patterns:
  4. Here the arrangement and modification to order them like a tree as suggested by @Nescio I uploaded it to the first post of the thread: I realized I didn't put the war dogs for the Britons. It could be added as well but I don't want to overcrowd/overload the roster. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogs_of_Roman_Britain About the Epouanos, the horse-killer from the Gauls. It comes mainly from these two accounts: Edit: Bonus. If you really want a two-handed swordsman, for the Indians: Arrian, Anabasis Alexandri: Book VIII (Indica), XVI. The Indians wear linen garments, as Nearchus says, the linen coming from the trees of which I have already made mention. This linen is either brighter than the whiteness of other linen, or the people's own blackness makes it appear unusually bright. They have a linen tunic to the middle of the calf, and for outer garments, one thrown round about their shoulders, and one wound round their heads. They wear ivory ear-rings, that is, the rich Indians; the common people do not use them. Nearchus writes that they dye their beards various colours; some therefore have these as white-looking as possible, others dark, others crimson, others purple, others grass-green. The more dignified Indians use sunshades against the summer heat. They have slippers of white skin, and these too made neatly; and the soles of their sandals are of different colours, and also high, so that the wearers seem taller. Indian war equipment differs; the infantry have a bow, of the height of the owner; this they poise on the ground, and set their left foot against it, and shoot thus; drawing the bowstring a very long way back; for their arrows are little short of three cubits, and nothing can stand against an arrow shot by an Indian archer, neither shield nor breastplate nor any strong armour. In their left hands they carry small shields of untanned hide, narrower than their bearers, but not much shorter. Some have javelins in place of bows. All carry a broad scimitar, its length not under three cubits; and this, when they have a hand-to-hand fight -- and Indians do not readily fight so among themselves -- they bring down with both hands in smiting, so that the stroke may be an effective one. Their horsemen have two javelins, like lances, and a small shield smaller than the infantry's. The horses have no saddles, nor do they use Greek bits nor any like the Celtic bits, but round the end of the horses' mouths they have an untanned stitched rein fitted; in this they have fitted, on the inner side, bronze or iron spikes, but rather blunted; the rich people have ivory spikes; within the mouth of the horses is a bit, like a spit, to either end of which the reins are attached. Then when they tighten the reins this bit masters the horse, and the spikes, being attached thereto, @#$% the horse and compel it to obey the rein.
  5. Yes you can try something like this. The only certainty in the archeological finds is that there wasn't any roof with a lot of weight. Try to do a thatched roof (or straw roof) that doesn't make it too much "peasant" like. Only something to cover against the sun.
  6. Sorry, I am really busy this month. You are totally right, thank you. I will do it. Ok, I will arrange it like this. Do not hesitate to criticize even this aspect, they are suggestions as well. No. The word for the sling or the slinger is not known in Gaulish, it is debated. The word I used come from EBII and it is clearly a reconstruction from a suspected proto-indo-european root with some features of the celtic languages. But since the new version of EBII that has come out the last month, they have changed again the name of the celtic slinger. Even so they have some very good linguists, it seems to be a difficult subject. Your logic is flawless. Iron rusts and it is clearly more difficult to preserve it. I will even add that the iron scabbards are even fragile, they flex easily when the sword is not in it. Clearly a possible problem during a battle. BUT We have found hundreds and hundreds of scabbards in Europe, most of them are in iron, some are in bronze or bronze+iron. None are in leather. Sheath in wood are found but only during the Gallo-roman period, indicated a transfer of roman technology like the sheath of Stanwick. Just an example with the location of La Tène in the Lake of Neuchâtel in Switzerland, we have found 120 scabbards. None of them were in leather or in wood while the conditions were good enough to preserve numerous wooden tools and dishes. Then when all the evidences say the contrary, even if the logic is good, we must admit that the assumption is incorrect. In fact the reason is known, we are modern peoples with a modern mind focusing on efficiency. We should not forget that the weapons have other meanings than killing tools. These objects have a lot of cultural meaning and they fit in a society with a hierarchy and strict rules. Here are the tools and other objects in wood from La Tène (some are replica from casting plaster):
  7. Genava55

    ===[TASK]=== Celtic Unit Textures

    For the elite cavalryman and elite infantryman, you can add hexagonal shields if you want. This shape become attested since the 1st century BC.
  8. Genava55

    ===[TASK]=== Celtic Unit Textures

    For shield decoration (for Gauls): Suite:
  9. If I reduce my previous suggestions and try to be more simple: The Gallic roster could be like this: Heavy infantryman (spearman or swordman) - Cingetos (generic term for warrior fighting in the front line). Javelin skirmisher - Bagauda (bellicose/fighter), Talanos (support person). or Adretos (who moves fast, attacker). Slinger - Clucagretos (proto-indo-european reconstruction for slinger), Uassos (meaning servant, attested word) or Talanos (support person). Sword cavalry - Eporedos (cavalryman). Archer - Selgos (hunter) - Archers appeared only during the 1st Century BC, I suggest an unit available only in the 3rd phase but not an elite unit. Naked warrior (spearman) - Bariogaisatos (furious spearman). Fast and scary for fresh recruit (bonus against basic version of units ?) Elite infantryman (swordman) - Soldurios/Soliduros (bodyguard), Ambactos (servant, protector, retainer), Adscoros (attendant, retainer). Elite horseman (sword or lance) - Comaterecos (patrician) or Uerouicos (victorious warrior, great fighter). Anti-cavalry special unit - Epouanos (horse-killer). Gallic horsemen auxiliaries are described as being efficient anti-cavalry against the Parthians at Carrhae. Eastern Celts, Belgians and Germans share this feature it seems. The Britonic roster could be like this: Heavy infantryman (spearman or swordman) - Catucos (combatant), Batacos (combatant) or Batoros (who-hit-hard, fighter). Javelin skirmisher - Bagauda (bellicose/fighter), Talanos (support person). or Adretos (who moves fast, attacker). Slinger - Clucagretos (proto-indo-european reconstruction for slinger), Uassos (meaning servant, attested word) or Talanos (support person). Lance cavalry - Marcacos (cavalryman). Marcos is another word for the horse, more common in the island than in the continent. Light cavalry with javelins - Gaisaredos (Javelin on horse, mounted), Gaisatoredos (Javelinist on horse), Adretos (who moves fast, attacker) or Bagauda (attested for horsemen as well during the Gallo-Roman rebellion). Naked warrior (swordman) - Batoros (who-hit-hard, fighter) or Excingos (attacker, who-get-out-to-fight). The Caledonians are described as using longswords and small shield and fighting naked. Elite chariot warrior - Esseda (war chariot). The Britons use war chariots with a driver and an elite warrior, they throw javelins from it and continue the fight on foot (possibility for the unit to transport one infantryman ?) Elite noble infantryman (sword or spear) - Argos (battle champion, noble) or Donnouicos (noble warrior, noble fighter). Elite skirmisher infantryman - Caur (old-Irish for champion) or Art (old-Irish for champion and bear). A propose an Irish elite javelinist, with a historical irish shortsword. If the double weapons switch is implanted, it could be an interesting unit. Polyvalent. I removed the light cavalry from the Gallic roster to let it only for the Britons. There is actually no direct evidence for light cavalry among the Gauls, it is more a matter of supposition and interpretation. Historically probably that the javelins, the spears and the swords were used together by gallic cavalrymen. Edit: I think interesting features can enhance and deepen the gameplay, like the Bariogaisatos (previous Gaesatae) having a bonus against basic version of the units because he was historically considered scary, like the Epouanos (horse-killer) being an efficient anti-cavalry with mediocre/average stats but with a strong bonus against cavalry, like the Britonic chariot possibility to carrying an infantry unit etc. What are your thoughts?
  10. Genava55

    ===[TASK]=== Celtic Unit Textures

    For levy unit, there is an attested cap found on relief. It could be useful for variation in the basic versions of some unit: For the wicker shield attested in Gauls (according to Caesar), it could be useful for the javelin thrower:
  11. Genava55

    ===[TASK]=== Celtic Unit Textures

    For me no, I understand it is an issue then no problem. I don't have a better proposal. Your choice is discrete and not deranging.
  12. Genava55

    ===[TASK]=== Celtic Unit Textures

    For the Elite cavalry unit, I suggest to rely only on late material. Helmets and shield bosses from the Gallic Wars and post Gallic Wars. The sword at this time is very long for horsemen. I put here some useful picture for the concept:
  13. Genava55

    ===[TASK]=== Celtic Unit Textures

    The unit seems to be very good like this. Body paint is something mainly attested on the British Islands (Britons and Picts). There are some people suggesting it could have been used in the continent, but it is astonishing that no author noticed it or represented it if it was the case. I would suggest to use it as a distinctive feature of the Britons. Especially since there is less choice in armor and helmet on the island, you must be creative with the other things for the advanced and elite version. Gladly, they have enough prestigious shields and the body paint can vary a lot. For the Gaesatae, I suggested to name it Bariogaisatos (furious spearman) since Gaesatae is in Latin and the Gaesatae are not accounted as naked all the time (Also Viridomaros is their king). If you are looking for some additional variations, you can add a cape on some of them and a prestigious helmet. Here my previous suggestion, but yours is good like this. Generic Name: Gallic Fast Spearman Specific Name: Bariogaisatos Class: Spearman. Hacker Armament: Heavy Spear. Appearance: Garb: Naked. With a cape or not. Helmet: No helmet or Celtic helmet type Montefortino. Shield: Medium shield. With early iron umbo. Figure(s): Face would either be bearded or have a large moustache (traditional). Torc around neck. Barefoot. o History: In the popular culture, Gaesatae are the naked warriors by excellence. But contrary to the common belief, all their accounts didn't correlate with the occurrence of naked warriors. Their king Britomaros even had a splendid armor according to the Romans. Besides, another account of naked warriors exists in the history of the Galatians, without any link to the Gaesatae. Terracotta figurines are even representing naked Galatian warriors. The choice here is to represent a general naked warrior as depicted in the Greco-Roman art. Bario- is meaning furious and Gaisatos is the translation of Gaesatae, meaning “those-who-fight-with-the-Gaisa”, a polyvalent spear that can be thrown. Naked warriors were frightening for fresh recruits. Polybius describes them as having a shield too small to cover their entire body. Garrison: 1. Function: Vulnerable to missile (low armor) but enough hit-points for close-combat. High damage delivery. Fast. Unable to change the attack mode (always aggressive). Special: Damage Bonus against low experience units (basic). Edit: The helmet suggested
  14. Genava55

    ===[TASK]=== Celtic British Shields (Britons)

    Kirkburn Sword Others British Celtic swords: Lisnacrogher Irish Sword: Another reconstitution, the South Cave British sword: I may be very busy and much less available in the next few weeks. There is enough material for the Britons on the forum I think, but in case you can check for Caesar descriptions here:
  15. Genava55

    ===[TASK]=== Celtic Unit Textures

    It is weird, isn't it? Why this survived and not the others things from the Bronze Age? I agree, the sea peoples are maybe nothing related to the nordic world but they could be related to the nuragic. The subject of the horned helmets is very complex and it is really mysterious. Why we find nothing during the migration period? Excepted a few relief about the berserkers, the horned helmets seem to be never used. It could be something exclusive to the mythology and to the religious practices. Or maybe for the standard bearer and carnyx bearer like the Tintignac helmets and the Bormio relief suggest. Exactly like the masked helmet from the Romans, their existence doesn't mean it is something widespread in the whole army.
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