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As a basic principle, I think it would be good if basic defenses used in P1 looses efficiency as the game progresses. In a23, increase in units HP when phasing up helped to fulfill this purpose. All units were buffed with the change in phases but towers weren't, so they be less effective at killing units. I agree. For palisades, the application of this principle I mentioned was, and still is missing. Palisades are often misused currently since they shouldn't be useful to block sieges but mostly be useful in early game. The idea of a tech available in p2/p3 to allow fast destruction of palisades seems good. A tech that could allow units to destroy extremely fast palisades in late game would work well, especially against palisades spam. So if someone used palisades in early game, he has to replace them by walls to have defenses in late game. Walls are barely used currently. Some players build palisades around them to solve that problem. In a24 (slower training time of units, no hp increase when phasing up), there is a very weak timing in multiplayers (smaller distance to the enemy) when you transition from P1 to P2. You spent a lot of resources and lose some training time from your cc to phase up so a player P1 is often stronger than a player that just reached P2. I have tried a few all-in with 4 to 6 barracks while P1 when the enemy reached P2, they seem currently quite strong. You start fighting with a population lead and usually, the enemy is unable to replace units dying fast enough even if he receives extra resources because he will lack production buildings. If on top of that you remove towers usage when they are upgraded, this weakness is even reinforced. I might limit cc's additional arrows to 10 maximum instead of 20 but keep a garrison capacity of 20. This would not change much the cc's role in early game but it would reduce its defensive usage in late game.

Made them bigger and added a decal.

Because @Freagarach is not into competitive gameplay, at all. And sadly what makes sense for competitive gameplay doesn't always make sense for the other players.

For blocking projectiles: Well, one can still shoot over walls and palisades if one wants to. Main point is to prevent units from freely walking into the settlement/town and to give defenders some time to react. But yes, would be nice, its just performance nightmare

And please note that making projectiles always land (i.e. making them cruise missiles) can be considered terrible gameplay downsides as well. (_At least_ by me and other people I play with.)

The reason to spam palisades is to ruin pathfinders and limit movement of the enemy and make rams spend eternity taking them down. The power in palisades is not health of the barrier, that much I can say for sure. In a23 people had no extra time to sit and build defenses anyway, the game was much more dynamic. Usually only a few strings of walls. Only exception being the roman siege spam, which was a rare tactic and even rarer to succeed. @Dizaka surely you can explain this you are an expert in palisades

Looking at images of such palisade walls, I get the impression that it would not take many strikes from a ram to take them down. Also, wood has leasst strength in shear with respect to the grain. This is the situation of 0ad palisades. If there are no horizontal stabilizers to keep the vertical logs in position then 2 things happen: the absence of one log allows surrounding logs to move more, creating more instability the impact of a ram is not distributed, meaning only one or two pieces of wood takes the whole load of the ram strike. This is enough to justify halving the crush armor of palisades, A ram should probably be able to breach it in 2 strikes. This discussion of historical accuracy and engineering limitations is pretty pointless for these palisades as they are just art-pieces for a game mechanism. We should free ourselves from this thinking, and let us make the palisade walls perform a logical, fun, and varied function in 0ad based off of a gameplay point of view. lets ask these questions: How much do we want small fragments of un-destroyed palisades to just sit and clutter the map and cause bad pathfinding? How effective should spamming multiple layers of palisades be in multiplying the strength of the overall barricade? How does it affect gameplay movement, fluidity, and decisions? I think the answers to these questions can be found in area damage, cost, and build time.

I tested Dakara's & Yekaterina's proposal in my sandbox. My findings: Javelinist attack to 32 P, speed 2.000, range 20 -- Good changes IMO. Slower attack means units no longer look like they are having seizures! 32 attack hits like a truck, but doesn't seem game breaking. 20 base range might be a little short. It definitely underlines the idea that these guys are not just off-brand archers, which is good. Less good is that they almost feel like weird melee-infantry with such short range. 25 may be a better compromise number. 25 +5 range per rank would sweeten the deal IMO. Javelinist HP to 75 -- Way overpowered! 75 HP javs annihilate archers, and every other unit type I tested them against. That's way too much meat. If the intent is to make javelins tanky, without massively changing their role, I'd suggest a different idea... Javelinist armor to 5 H, 2 P (which is +4 H, +1 P compared to their current) -- I think this is much more in line with the visual depiction of their gear. Those small light shields would not be so great against projectiles, but they would be excellent for parrying sword and spear strikes. I think the balance effect is better too. In combination with Dakara's changes, these javelinists have a strong anti-melee flavor, both as a tank for other ranged units and as a DPS source in themselves. This seems to have been the intent with their base stats as well, but now it is accentuated. And against archers they still lose by a respectable margin, which I think is right.

Los edificios aún no tienen decoración porque todavía sigo con la investigación sobre utensilios , armas y otros materiales históricamente y estéticamente correctos (con sus colores y formas correctos) Disculpe las molestias*

Okay, so it would be over my dead body. I have an idea that might work, without much extra work.

Note that you can do exactly the same with stone walls. I've seen some crazy wall design over the years That's no so hard. Just edit binaries\data\mods\public\simulation\templates\template_structure_defensive_palisade.xml and add: <DeathDamage> <Shape>Circular</Shape> <Range>30</Range> <FriendlyFire>true</FriendlyFire> <Damage> <Crush>600</Crush> </Damage> </DeathDamage> Note this will damage everything around it. (units, buildings etc.)

One could try adding area damage to rams, to see how that affects mass palisades.

They're main use should be blocking projectiles imo. Same goes for stone walls, but because stone walls are higher they should also block cata projectiles. Currently this doesn't work but hopefully in the future. As a secondary feature; yes, they should be exactly that:

Personally I prefer having some spread. Consider projectile mass, drag coefficient, kinetic energy of projectile at launch point... Arrows are lighter, so they fly faster but also experienced more air resistance. Stones have smaller kinetic energy but large mass + not really affected by air resistance.

.antipalisade.zip This is the mod: Melee infantry have 5x hard counter against palisade Champions have 10x hard counter Rams have 5x hard counter (can knock out palisade in one hit if you researched the crush upgrade) Test it and see if any other changes are wanted

Hello, i test the mod tonigh . Maybe we have to nerf a little unit big range like arrow and slingers for balance.

Right. IMHO foundations should be invisible to other players until the owning player starts building it.

Could foundations be made invisible to other players? I always liked that approach better.

Sneak Peek of 0 A.D. Alpha 25 A provisional date of June 2021 has been proposed for the ‘Feature Freeze’ – the point at which new features for the upcoming Alpha version of 0 A.D. stop being added and the development team focus solidly on bugfixes. This is not the release date. The feature freeze is one of the precursors to release, with the specific launch date to follow. You can find more information here. First Impressions of Alpha 25 Be sure to tune into the Tom0AD live stream on YouTube on Friday 7th May 2021 at 9pm CET to see a preview of the latest development version of Alpha 25 in action. The broadcast will feature Tom and fellow YouTubers, Alistair Findlay, and Jim Cogan (0AD Newbie Rush) putting the dev version through its paces live on air. And there will also be a live Q&A session with 0 A.D. Developer, Stan`. New Features Following closely on the heels of Alpha 24, this latest iteration of 0 A.D. will look to further build on functionality and further expand the existing feature set while also fixing existing bugs. With a shorter planned gap between alpha releases this time around, most of the proposed additions are subtle and geared toward small improvements in the current and future player experience rather than headline features. But there are a few notable things to look out for. Single Player Campaign Support: The ability for 0 A.D modders to create their own single player campaigns will be added. Alpha 25 will only include the base functionality for this with full campaigns scheduled to be added in later iterations. Improved Multiplayer Responsiveness A technical improvement that players may ‘feel’ rather than see, this is another progressive improvement step to smoothing out multiplayer gameplay and enhancing unit pathfinding. Before commands in multiplayer were processed twice per second, now five times like in single player. Ongoing Balancing Changes Numerous changes to balance of the game by way of micro adjustments to various civilisations, buildings, and units. For a full list of all proposed features/changes visit the Alpha 25 Wiki page. Get Involved! Your Chance to Name the New Alpha Every new iteration of 0 A.D. gets a name, and this is your chance to contribute your suggestions. The Alpha 25 Name Suggestions thread on the 0 A.D. Community Forum has been open since January 2021, but there is still time to vote for your favourite and put forward your own suggestions. 0 A.D. release names start with the letter of the alphabet that corresponds to the release version. Alpha 22 was Venustas, Alpha 23 was Ken Wood, Alpha 24 was Xšayāršā, and Alpha 25 will start with a ‘Y’. Check out the thread here.

These no longer can counter archers because 1 archers can kill them quite quickly and 2 no more splash damage :I. The best siege against archers right now is siege towers. So in a24 Rome has worse siege overall than ptol.

Anti-Ranged as their general role. Anti-Elephant and Chariot as their niche role.

@Lion.Kanzen Thank you for finding and showing me that patch, it is great to see the discussion behind the change. I think most players agree that the ranged/melee balance is much improved this alpha, but that ranged/ranged balance is much worse. I also don't think the turtleing issue can totally solved without reducing archer walk speed, but many more people will agree with me on the other argument for speeds: skirmisher>slinger>archer. That being the inability of every kind of infantry to outmaneuver archers.

Why not just reveal the whole map for a certain duration rather than targeting specific units. Espionage levels for each phase. Delayed pay now/capture intel both nice ideas.

Might want to look at the commit which introduced it

I have a post for you...

That's actually the problem. The cost-utility is low. That is, the utility of palisades is so great, because of their low cost, that it's frustrating when allies don't build them and get overwhelmed. The problem summarized: Weak players fail to utilize palisades while strong players overuse them as they know their utility. Also, palisades are "short" between the "towers." I think they should be longer and the "towers" farther apart thereby if one "wall" is killed more units can fit through. Palisades decide games, tbh.

@raynor if you remove spread, make projectiles have lightning speed (AKA bullets) and undo the turn rate, you have 100% what you want. However i really hope that doesnt end up being in the main game, but its not up to me. As a mod however, you have the freedom you want.

One thing I would like to add is that you need less space to fire a bow. In order to fire a bow, you only need to stand sideways and stretch one arm out. You don´t need more space than that. Now imagine what would happen if you were in a dense formation and you would try to use a sling. Your neighbours won´t like you. Not every warrior was part of a dense formation, but those dense infantry formations where what ultimately won the day. @Dakara @Yekaterina@ChronA @a 0ad player , can you explain why javelineers need to be buffed if 40 skirmishers beat 30 spear cavalry in loose formation on an open field battle?

I think increasing palisade costs is a good option. Just looking at it you would see it requires alot of logs to build it. Besides, the palisades have a rock foundation, it should be accounted for. Up the wood price by quite a bit (triple?) and make it also cost stone 1/3 of the wood price. In this example the price for this length would be 588W and 196 stone. Numbers are just examplary though.

Indeed, you are pushing it a bit. Randomness can give both above and below average results. You view randomness as a disadvantage whereas it can also give results better than expected. If you have 70% chance of hitting an enemy (which I estimated to be about the same chance that a camel will hit something from 60 when firing at a group) and your group fires 60 shots. We can calculate probabilities with the binomial distribution. Then you will hit 42 shots on average. There is only 3.6% chance that you hit 35 shots or less. You have 76% chance to land at least 40 shots. The chance to hit with 47 shots or more is about 10%. So the randomness is fairly mild. Good execution plays a way more important role than randomness.

Buenas ; Aquí les dejo algunas actualizaciones de los bocetos; centros urbanos lusitanos edificio especial-Castro de élite lusitano edificio especial-Sauna lusitana edificio especial-Verracos (Son un toro , un cerdo y un jabalí-en orden de izquierda a derecha) Disculpen las molestias*

In the long term, what about a "resource hotkey" which toggles between normal view mode and a "resource view mode" where resources are highlighted? That would combine both realism and visibility...

Hi For Skirmish : More armor against arrow and agility (they run more fast than archers and heavy infantery). Make it harass unit with big dammage but lower speed attack rate. Attack and run. Easy killed by cavalery and useful against infantery melee. Balanced against archers because they have low range and armor good against arrow. Now : attack 16 speed 1.25 = 12 DPS range 30 Change : attack 32 speed 2 = 16 DPS range 20 if we change skirmish like that, all civ need to have possibility to have big range unit so archers or slingers except sparta because courageous civ with skiritai lol ! And all civ can make skirmish. Archers/Slingers without shield must have 0 armor. Trash support unit. They did good dammage at unit without armor and shield -> So natural counter of archers and slingers and all unit without shield. Not to mention their ability to keep ennemies away thank to their range. They are not hard counter cavalery but they did dammage where orther units without range don't do dammage. I would to insist that unprotected archers/slingers sould be demolished in melee as no armor and difficult to shot at very low range. Is already the case with spear cav but i want also with all melee infantery. So like orther thread say we have a lot of possibilty to nerf archers: ----------- For a slight differentiation of civilizations, civ with archers with shield like Carthage. Can have benetif from a little overall armor, and reduce their range from 5. For orther civ, skirmish without shield gain +5 range and +2 move speed compare to classic skirmish. Skirmish cav sound good already if we take into account a potential nerf for archers (whatever the form proposed: nerf of other THREAD : dammage, range, precision, dammage by range, precision by range, etc. ). Archers cav good with the same nerf selected as archers infantery Champion : more health, armor and attack thank to quality equipment. archers champ +5 range ? Delete maurya/kush/parisnas tech which up range for balance

I wouldn't mind if you just put a single blueberry there to represent a patch of berries. A model of blueberry I will make one in Gimp so you know what I mean I really wouldn't mind it looking like this, because it is easy to see, which is the most important thing!

Central limit theorem

While individual arrows have random hit chances, it does not impact a game with many arrows. The law of large numbers says that if many arrows/slingshots are shot, the amount of hits is extremely likely to be close to the average.

Yes, familiar with most of those - looking to retweet and share a few on the Social media platforms shortly, especially that last one - I've had contact with him in the context of my Youtube channel, he's really sound guy and is pretty taken with 0AD.

That's definitely doable with a mod and simple to do aswell. The only problem would be a visual one, it will look like the projectile missed, when it was actually registered as a hit.

What do we want the role of palisades to be? Because if they can be destroyed easily by both siege and melee, and they don't really affect ranged troups (because they don't), then what's their use? They are just a nuisance, only effective to disturb the pathfinder and attract the fire of idle enemy units.

I have an idea: add a P3 tech in the siege workshop which gives rams/siege weapons hard counter against palisades. Or I can even add it by default. Units shouldn't be able to hack down palisades easily because palisades are still quite thick and strong compared to human arms.

I think if this is done, then upgrading should be a little faster.

New gamemode: Hyper pizza.

If they bypass my filter technique by replacing certain letters with symbols then no problem: they shame themselves by trying so hard to associate their identity with something vulgar under everyone's watch. If people want to name themselves nazi or Soviet then let them be; we just ban them from our TGs when we host. I am pretty sure someone can mute people in the lobby. I see Hamdich has been muted (although I am not sure what he has done to deserve that).

The problem with this reasoning is that you can twist it to justify about anything. A community needs rules just as a society does. BTW I am kind of annoyed of the inflationary use of the word "-phobia"/"-phobic" for any kind of disagreement whether it is coupled with fear (the actual meaning of that word) or not.

I think intel might be the least beneficial in village phase, while also it would be less realistic for a village to pull off an espionage mission as for a city. As proposed by others above, increasing the cost for each use might be the better solution.

Seeing a trader isnt all that useful either tbh. Most people place their market at the back of the base / edge of the map and a decent player makes sure they walk it too. So you can already guess where those things are very likely to be and they are hard to defend because they get wiped in a blink of an eye and your military will likely be somewhere else to respond to it in time. EDIT: Besides, what happens if the player doesn't have traders? Gone metal? E.g. what you want to know: Why has the opponent suddenly stopped attacking even though he was aggressive? Probably will reposition to attack someone else or waiting for a regroup from another player. Those are situations where a bribe can be useful. So you then choose that player to bribe for 50 metal. You get displayed X number of units for X amount of time, i liked @wowgetoffyourcellphone possibility that you can get crappy info. Too bad. Next bribe will cost you X more than usual. I could see some people use that, even though others won't. Maybe bribe should be something very short. 3-5s you see all selected player units before they return to FOW. Right now yes , but even then i dont think it gets used. It's exactly why a rework is suggested to make it more interestingly.

The current bribe method is supposed to be a bit risky. Sometimes you get actionable intel, sometimes you don't. EDIT: Right now, the downside is too likely. That's why I proposed to extend bribery to more unit classes, to increase the likelihood of actionable intel.

.....idiot anyways, WFG can you comment with a generic "we're working on this" or preferably just do something about it?

I always say that profanity-phobics make profanity necessary. As long as there are people offended by it, there will be a need for people to provide the required offenses. But yes, consistency, or the lack of it, is a whole other story.

Wth...