DerekO Posted October 16, 2021 Report Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) @cl2488@borg-@Feldfeld@ValihrAnt@Tom0ad Hi, I would like to participate an Idea on a tournament with a $1000 Cash Cup $500 for the Winner $300 for Second $150 for Third Would this be a great idea to push 0 A.D. into the public and would allow it to reach it's true stage? what would be a great charge for tournaments (or should be make it free and allow donations to come in) Please comment in your Ideas so we could host such a thing Edited October 16, 2021 by DerekO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted October 16, 2021 Report Share Posted October 16, 2021 Not a bad idea, but I think there's a "catch-22." A large cash tournament like this would bring a lot of new interest and expand the multiplayer community, but at the same time, since the community is so small, there is already a small group of top players that would more than likely monopolize the top 3 cash-winning slots. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekO Posted October 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2021 Since it's free we could open up more spaces for prize money $500 for Winner $200 For Second $150 for Thir $100 for Fourth and $50 for Fifth. This would open it up for other players We need to think of a way to get the money though. We could do through Donations, or Open up a Go-Fund-Me/Kickstarter any thoughts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroder Posted October 16, 2021 Report Share Posted October 16, 2021 I'm skeptical that with the small multiplayer base you would get anywhere near 1000 in donation and even if you did I'm not sure if this would be the best purpose of use. Secondly you have to keep in mind that the game is not really cheat proof. There are ways to get an unfair advantage that are not detectable and such an high prize money would just be an incentive for people with bad intentions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetswaveaBook Posted October 16, 2021 Report Share Posted October 16, 2021 7 hours ago, DerekO said: Would this be a great idea to push 0 A.D. into the public and would allow it to reach it's true stage? I think it would not help to push the game to the public. I think games that are popular result in high prizepool tournament. I don't see it automatically working the other way around. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekO Posted October 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, LetswaveaBook said: I think it would not help to push the game to the public. I think games that are popular result in high prizepool tournament. I don't see it automatically working the other way around. You make a great point, I did make a post regaurding advertisment of the Game would that be a more valuable thing to spend the money on? Edited October 17, 2021 by DerekO Embedding 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 9 hours ago, DerekO said: You make a great point, I did make a post regaurding advertisment of the Game would that be a more valuable thing to spend the money on? If anything yeah that might bring more frustration because of the lag / bugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad player Posted October 18, 2021 Report Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) On 16/10/2021 at 5:13 AM, DerekO said: @cl2488@borg-@Feldfeld@ValihrAnt@Tom0ad Hi, I would like to participate an Idea on a tournament with a $1000 Cash Cup $500 for the Winner $300 for Second $150 for Third Would this be a great idea to push 0 A.D. into the public and would allow it to reach it's true stage? what would be a great charge for tournaments (or should be make it free and allow donations to come in) Please comment in your Ideas so we could host such a thing WYM theres like 10 players online in lobby (or less without afks) and rankeds are not even working properly, and whos going to fund these rewards? and no one will know about this tournament unless you spend a lot on advertising also i can already tell borg and valihr will take top rewards its not exciting to know whos gonna win but yeah no one will know about it without advertising Edited October 18, 2021 by bad player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequani Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 If we could just have basic tournament or/and leagues going, that would be already great 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekO Posted October 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 Monthly League? should have like 10 players every month 1 - 3 games a week double Elim best of three or single Elim best of 3? which is better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cl2488 Posted November 14, 2021 Report Share Posted November 14, 2021 I have thought of the idea of an 0AD Alpha 25 tournament with prize money recently. Personally, I really enjoyed the series of games in the 2018 Championship, especially the final games between borg- and feldfeld. Even if it is likely that borg-, Vali and feld will win the top places in the tournament, it is still interesting to hold the tournament to let many players to push their skills and show the excitement of 0AD games. It is particularly fascinating to see the top players trying their best to push their skills to a new height. Also, most of the players just play the mainland maps. A tournament that involves a wide variety of maps can encourage them to expand their skills on different maps. The money prize would be a good incentive to raise the skill level of the games. I think finding $1000 for the prize money is doable. As long as we allow sufficient time to advertise the tournament, it should attract quite some good players to participate. Below is a proposal that I write for the tournament. You can have a look and give some feedback. If many players support the idea, we can proceed. --------------------------- 0 AD Alpha 25 Championship Tournament with ~$1000 money prize Champion $500 Runner-up $250 3rd place $150 4th place $100 5th place $80 6th place $60 7-10th place $40 To make it a decent-level tournament, you need to fulfill either one of the requirements below to enter the tournament: (1) Rating > 1400 (2) If you rating is <1400 or you have no rating, you may post one game here, in which you defeat two very hard AI. Then you can enter the tournament. ALL of the matches will be posted in the 0 AD forum. And we seek to broadcast the matches on the rounds of 8, semifinal and final on Youtube to let people know the excellence of 0 AD. So, please take the tournament seriously. This is a double-elimination tournament, in which every player is eliminated only after losing two rounds (each around is best of 5 or 7 games). All players will start in the winner bracket and do 1 v 1 matches. The winners will proceed, and the losers will go to the loser bracket. A player is eliminated after losing in the loser bracket. The winners of the two brackets will meet in the grand final for the championship. For each around, the two players should make time with each other to finish the matches by themselves (please finish them in one week, so that we can finish the whole tournament in two months). The winner needs to report the results and post the replays here. This tournament requires the players to know multiple civilizations and different maps. Below are the rules of the matches: (1) For each round of matches, the two players will play 1 v 1 matches in the format of best of 5 in the round of 32 and 16. The matches will be the best of 7 in the around 8, the semifinal and the final. (2) In each round of matches, each player cannot use the same civilization twice. (For example, if A uses the Ptolemies in one game, A cannot use the Ptolemies again in other games.) (3) The grand final will be best-of-7-game matches between the winner of the winner brackets (WW) and the winner of the loser bracket (WL). If WW wins, WW is the champion. If WL wins, they will conduct an additional round of best of 7 games, in which the winner is the champion. (A player is eliminated only after being defeated twice; so, WL needs to beat WW twice to knock out WW). (4) All the games will be played on standard 1 v 1 setting (small maps, 300 pop, low resources, no relics, random biome, unrevealed and unexplored maps, etc). For each around of matches, the maps will be: Game 1: Balanced mainland Game 2: Lake Game 3: African plain Game 4: Islands (naval map) Game 5: Unknown land Game 6: Rivers Game 7: Continents We reserve the right to modify the rules before the tournament starts. If you have any suggestions that may improve the tournament, please feel free to leave your comments. We will wait until there are 32 players to start the tournament. The anticipated starting time is Feb 2022. If there are more than 32 players, we will host preliminary matches among the low-rating players to select the strong ones to enter the around of 32. After the 32 players are determined, we will select 8 top players to be the seeds and position them in the eight major branches of the bracket, and randomize the position of the other players. We hope to arrange it in a way that the strong players will meet later in the tournament. If we don’t have 32 players before Feb 2022, the tournament may be canceled. So, please help promote and advertise this tournament. Can you help the tournament? We eagerly welcome sponsors and volunteers to help this tournament. Below is what you can help: I. Finance a. Can you donate money (e.g. $20, $50, etc) to the tournament prize money? b. Can you help us to find sponsors? c. Do you know how to efficiently collect money from donators and send prize money to the players? II. Before the tournament – Website, advertisement and promotion a. Website: We would like to make a website for the tournament, in which the results are reported and the Youtube video of the matches are shown. Can you help make the website? b. Advertisement video: Can you help us make an advertisement video clip (about 1 minute long) for the tournament? c. Youtube: If you are a Youtuber, can you post an advertisement video of the tournament in your channel? d. Warm-up matches: We want to promote the tournament with some high-level warm-up matches for the tournament (top players play each other on the various selected maps of the tournament). Can you play some exciting matches and post them here? We will select some to be posted on Youtube and the tournament website. III. During the tournament Youtubers, can you broadcast the matches and invite top players to make commentary? IV. During or after the tournament a. Can you help design and make the certificates? b. Can you help summarize the tournament and post some review videos on Youtube? c. Can you help contact some news agents (e.g. game magazines and websites, BBC news, ABC, NBC news, etc) to let the world know the tournament? We want as many people as possible to know the tournament. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetswaveaBook Posted November 14, 2021 Report Share Posted November 14, 2021 24 minutes ago, cl2488 said: Even if it is likely that borg-, Vali and feld will win the top places in the tournament, it is still interesting to hold the tournament to let many players to push their skills and show the excitement of 0AD games. It is particularly fascinating to see the top players trying their best to push their skills to a new height. You would get several good players without a prizepool, it is not needed in my view. A good number of high rated players would probably just join for either having the honor of: 1: Beating Vali in the finals. 2: Being Vali. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thephilosopher Posted November 14, 2021 Report Share Posted November 14, 2021 (edited) A league of some kind sounds fun. It wouldn't matter to me whether or not money was involved. I'm well aware that with a rating around 1090 that I wouldn't win (especially against ValihrAnt, borg, et al.), but I'd probably play. Edited November 14, 2021 by thephilosopher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cl2488 Posted November 14, 2021 Report Share Posted November 14, 2021 I think the key of success of the tournament is to have many top players enter the tournament and finish it seriously. I don't know how effective the money prize can help to attract the good players. Do you have suggestions how to make as many top players as possible to enter the tournament? For example, some top players, eg. stockfish, feldfeld, starAtt, schweinepriester, superPOSITION etc, seldom show up in the lobby. Is there a way to let them know the tournament? Would the money prize be effective to "activate" the dormant players? If we have about ten >1900 players in the tournament, it will be exciting enough to watch the tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alre Posted November 14, 2021 Report Share Posted November 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, cl2488 said: Do you have suggestions how to make as many top players as possible to enter the tournament? For example, some top players, eg. stockfish, feldfeld, starAtt, schweinepriester, superPOSITION etc, seldom show up in the lobby. Is there a way to let them know the tournament? Would the money prize be effective to "activate" the dormant players? If we have about ten >1900 players in the tournament, it will be exciting enough to watch the tournament. they are just not active anymore. their rating is not updated either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cl2488 Posted November 14, 2021 Report Share Posted November 14, 2021 50 minutes ago, alre said: they are just not active anymore. their rating is not updated either. They are still strong players. It is not difficult to pick up the games even after a long break. I have seen Feldfeld easily beating 1.7~2k players even after four months of break. Jofursloft did not play the game for two years, but when he show up again he easily beat some >1.6k players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palaxin Posted November 14, 2021 Report Share Posted November 14, 2021 (edited) On 16/10/2021 at 12:36 PM, LetswaveaBook said: I think it would not help to push the game to the public. I think games that are popular result in high prizepool tournament. I don't see it automatically working the other way around. This On 17/10/2021 at 2:11 PM, Stan` said: If anything yeah that might bring more frustration because of the lag / bugs and this. optimize engine, pathfinding, networking, ... -> reduce lag, create a fluid game polish GUI (feels a bit outdated), especially ingame -> create immersion (1) add content like more tutorials, challenges and campaigns with original art and good storytelling -> create immersion (2) most importantly OVERHAUL GAMEPLAY -> strategic depth and variety -> add to the longevity of the game, so you will still need to learn and adapt after 100s of hours find ways to make the lobby a (user-)friendly place; make it more appealing graphic wise, it has a very techy vibe -> less complaints about toxicity and cheating -> overall more welcoming to beginners When the groundwork is done... ...after years of heavy work, drastic changes, thorough testing, maybe also some luck... ...then we can talk about steam support, prized tournaments etc. IMO I do not want to stop you from having fun, but just want to say this is not thinking big... Edited November 14, 2021 by Palaxin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badosu Posted November 15, 2021 Report Share Posted November 15, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Palaxin said: optimize engine, pathfinding, networking, ... -> reduce lag, create a fluid game The dream. Love 0ad. After realizing what I was dealing with I couldn't turn back :-( Edited November 15, 2021 by badosu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-x Posted November 15, 2021 Report Share Posted November 15, 2021 Any case I will be playing and also can try to make a lot of Casts all around the Tournament in the Style like: It might be efficient to activate many player as well as new players interested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted November 15, 2021 Report Share Posted November 15, 2021 4 hours ago, badosu said: The dream. Love 0ad. After realizing what I was dealing with I couldn't turn back :-( What were you dealing with exactly? How's life on the other side of the BARrier btw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiley Posted November 15, 2021 Report Share Posted November 15, 2021 20 hours ago, cl2488 said: I. Finance a. Can you donate money (e.g. $20, $50, etc) to the tournament prize money? b. Can you help us to find sponsors? c. Do you know how to efficiently collect money from donators and send prize money to the players? If you look at the published financial reports, you would notice that with current expenses, there is no shortage of money here for the foreseeable future (partly because there isn't enough for any big expenditures). However, $1000 spent on ticket bounties may fetch more return on investment that on a tournament. $1000 spent on freelancers to create art would probably fetch better ROI. If I recall correctly, it has been sitting there for so long that inflation actually might have eaten a non-negligible amount already probably. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted November 15, 2021 Report Share Posted November 15, 2021 3 hours ago, smiley said: If you look at the published financial reports, you would notice that with current expenses, there is no shortage of money here for the foreseeable future (partly because there isn't enough for any big expenditures). However, $1000 spent on ticket bounties may fetch more return on investment that on a tournament. $1000 spent on freelancers to create art would probably fetch better ROI. If I recall correctly, it has been sitting there for so long that inflation actually might have eaten a non-negligible amount already probably. Yep. Usages of the money are a bit complicated though due to the non profit nature of our sponsor. We might comission some artist in the future to do stuff. Currently there aren't many artists active. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guerringuerrin Posted November 15, 2021 Report Share Posted November 15, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, Palaxin said: This and this. optimize engine, pathfinding, networking, ... -> reduce lag, create a fluid game From all thing u mention i think this is the most important thing. Is there any way to setup and mantain at least 2/3 dedicated servers? America, Europe and Asia? I know we don't have any income that could pay off the costs of this but have we ever thought about it and realize its not possible to make it work? Edited November 15, 2021 by guerringuerrin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badosu Posted November 16, 2021 Report Share Posted November 16, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, Stan` said: What were you dealing with exactly? How's life on the other side of the BARrier btw? The lag from these networking/pathfinding issues, just that. I was not aware how that was important. The community on 0ad is more civilized though, I miss that (except I see JC still has his antics xD) Edited November 16, 2021 by badosu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted November 16, 2021 Report Share Posted November 16, 2021 Pathfinding is mostly good now with the threading. Problem is the JS code. Bottleneck seems to be the attack part now. 17 hours ago, guerringuerrin said: From all thing u mention i think this is the most important thing. Is there any way to setup and mantain at least 2/3 dedicated servers? America, Europe and Asia? I know we don't have any income that could pay off the costs of this but have we ever thought about it and realize its not possible to make it work? You can host your own lobby but currently you cannot host a 0 A.D. server for there is no way to setup the game if you're not the host. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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