Thorfinn the Shallow Minded Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Genava55 said: Moral is not really a fact. There is no physical law making an action right or wrong. This is always a matter of point of view. Moreover, moral judgement is often driven by emotion as much than reason. If again I take the example of Genghis Khan, he was viewed as a tyrant and a bloody conqueror. The consequences of his conquest on the history of several nations are not small. Nonetheless, he is viewed as a neutral historical figure for most people. It is acceptable to portray him as a protagonist in a video game for example. My point is that when time passes, emotions fade. That first sentence is a bold claim. Simply because there is no physical law does not mean that there are no moral absolutes; even a good number of atheists such as Sam Harris subscribe to the point that a distinction between values and scientific facts is arbitrary and instead use naturalistic principles to derive their moral systems. Just because points of view differ from one time to the next does not undermine that given the fact that humans are flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said: That first sentence is a bold claim. A bold claim I assume entirely. But I don't think it is as bold as saying moral values are on the same level than mathematical theories. 46 minutes ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said: Simply because there is no physical law does not mean that there are no moral absolutes; even a good number of atheists such as Sam Harris subscribe to the point that a distinction between values and scientific facts is arbitrary and instead use naturalistic principles to derive their moral systems. It means simply that you cannot test a set of moral values and you cannot replicate it. There is no demonstration on the level of a scientific theory. Most defenders of moral absolutism are slightly disagreeing with each others on which values are absolute. The same for moral universalism. For me it is really important to point it out that you cannot hold the entire truth of what is wrong and what is right and everyone should remembers the fact that your opinion on the moral is as much flawed than the human nature. In my opinion, people having an issue with a statue are simply displaying an excess of ego and confidence about their righteousness and are trying to use a monument as a political symbol in the debate. This is politicization of historical monuments and it shouldn't be taken lightly. I can understand the issue with Confederate monuments because they are politicized from the beginning but for monument like Columbus statue this is not the case. People seeing the world only through their ideological and political lens are really a danger in my opinion. Edited June 12, 2020 by Genava55 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffffffff Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 9 hours ago, s0600204 said: I think we can all agree that the #BlackLivesMatter campaign is important, nope its instrumentialized sorry look it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinme Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 every1 who doesnt hate black ppl already knows this thoes who do im sure wont care for the message. what is saying "black lives matter" supposed to accomplish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusAureliu#s Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, vinme said: every1 who doesnt hate black ppl already knows this thoes who do im sure wont care for the message. what is saying "black lives matter" supposed to accomplish? First of all raising awareness. The police cant afford to cover racists practice by police anymore if there is public pressure on the responsible executives. Also it is about fighting for cultural hegemony in that area, which is of major importance to make sure there will be no dominating "white supremacist" culture amongst younger generations and elsewhere in society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 I think something that should change in US culture and mentality is their excessive and twisted faith in meritocracy. A lot of people in the US do not understand how socio-economical disadvantages can undermine the destiny of individuals and their community. It is really tiresome to hear US politician labelling their opponent as communist or marxist simply because he/she defends a better social system. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunChleoc Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 Yep, having a workable health care system would have been really practical in combatting COVID-19, and having one doesn't make you communist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyconcepts Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 18 hours ago, Trinketos said: And how are the protests in the USA? They are saying protests are planned for the summer. Geez I barely survived this last round of looting in LA ... and I was just trying to stay out of the way 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 Nation-wide gun control, proper police training, accessable health care, sick leave, maternity and paternity leave, a minimum wage, decent social security, public transport, and, perhaps most importantly, affordable high-quality education are all things most civilized countries have nowadays. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 Black Americans are significantly more likely to die: in general: https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/death-rate-by-raceethnicity due to firearms: https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-by-raceethnicity because of coronavirus: https://www.apmresearchlab.org/covid/deaths-by-race and presumably they're overrepresented in other causes too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 On 6/12/2020 at 2:02 PM, Genava55 said: In my opinion, people having an issue with a statue are simply displaying an excess of ego and confidence about their righteousness and are trying to use a monument as a political symbol in the debate. This is politicization of historical monuments and it shouldn't be taken lightly. I can understand the issue with Confederate monuments because they are politicized from the beginning but for monument like Columbus statue this is not the case. People seeing the world only through their ideological and political lens are really a danger in my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC (naval supremacist) Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 since when the lives of blacks don't matter ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Nescio said: If he wants to politicize the statue, let's do it with a democratic poll in Bristol. The city is mainly on the left wing, so nobody should be afraid of a democratic process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC (naval supremacist) Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 17 hours ago, Genava55 said: If he wants to politicize the statue, let's do it with a democratic poll in Bristol. The city is mainly on the left wing, so nobody should be afraid of a democratic process. politicians who allow this were elected .. so you have your answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Seriously? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfinn the Shallow Minded Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 6 hours ago, Genava55 said: Seriously? Agreed. People should keep their mouses out of frame when posting screenshots. In seriousness, that is a bit much. To paraphrase John Cleese: "What did the Romans do to them?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 7 hours ago, Genava55 said: Seriously? What does it say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 17 hours ago, JC (naval supremacist) said: since when the lives of blacks don't matter ? Do you have Netflix? If so, then start with the documentary "13th," about the 13th Amendment and its use to justify criminalizing blackness. After, come back with additional questions if you must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 31 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: Do you have Netflix? If so, then start with the documentary "13th," about the 13th Amendment and its use to justify criminalizing blackness. After, come back with additional questions if you must. Netflix is a joke. Wokeflix. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) Edited June 15, 2020 by Lion.Kanzen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 USA is in danger. May be is the start of decadence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 43 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: USA is in danger. May be is the start of decadence. Nonsense. Fascist forces within the country have been in control for decades. It's only now that the people are fighting back. We demand: End the War on Drugs The War on Drugs was implemented by President Nixon in the 1970s, specifically to target black people and liberals We should: Legalize Marijuana, Decriminalize all other drugs (send people to rehab instead of prisons) End Qualified Immunity Qualified immunity is a legal doctrine in United States federal law which shields government officials (police) from being held personally liable for discretionary actions performed within their official capacity even if their victim's civil rights were violated. This needs to be abolished. End Civil Asset Forfeiture Civil asset forfeiture is a legal tool that allows law enforcement officials to seize property that they assert has been involved in certain criminal activity. In fact, the owner of the property doesn't even need to be guilty of a crime. This needs to be abolished. End the Private Prison Complex The United States has 128,063 people incarcerated in private prisons. This creates a perverse incentive (profit motive) to keeping people locked up. This has to end. Other Police/Law Reform This list could be 100 bullets long. I just suggest Googling it, and skip the neo-liberal/right-wing sponsored links in the results. Here's the Campaign Zero 10-point Plan: https://www.joincampaignzero.org/#vision Here's an article from the New York Times on the subject: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/13/magazine/police-reform.html Here's an article about what Washington DC Black Lives Matter protesters are demanding: https://www.npr.org/local/305/2020/06/09/872859084/here-s-what-black-lives-matter-d-c-is-calling-for-and-where-the-city-stands 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alekusu Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 On 6/12/2020 at 7:33 AM, Sturm said: In USA why not but what about other countries? The one that needs the focus might not always be the same... I'd love your small cartoon to finish with the two guys with two boards, one with blacklivesmatter, one with alllivesmatter (they want the same thing, just expressing it differently. I think it would send a better message (tolerance for other's opinion..)) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Aurelian Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) https://abcnews.go.com/US/small-town-police-chief-killed-officers-cities-wounded/story?id=71017820 https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-george-floyd-protest-deady-violence-20200528-5mxkpj3y4bgt7gihunobintjou-story.html#nt=oft-Double Chain~Flex Feature~top-version1~georgeflloyd-1102a~~1~yes-art~curated~curatedpage] Edited June 15, 2020 by Ultimate Aurelian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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