sarcoma Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 Suppose go2die's ratings are accurate ValihrAnt(10) Borg(9.5) Phyzic(9.18) Boudica(8.96) Rauls(8.89) fpre (8.86) Stockfish(8.75) chrstgtr(8.64) Edwarf(8.46) Havran(8.07) Badosu(8.07) UnknownPlayer(8.0) Dakara (8.0) SaidRdz(7.96) randomid (7.89) Vicentesk(7.64) Ricsand(7.57) Metafondations(7.43) Dakeyras (7.39) MarcAurel (7.29) Issh(7.14) go2die(6.82) Lord_Commander (6.62) esu(6.04) The way to make even team is the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_problem The strongest to each team ValihrAnt(10) Borg(9.5) Phyzic(9.18) Boudica(8.96) Rauls(8.89) fpre (8.86) <- weakest sum then sort the sum of strengths and assign next strongest to weakest sum ValihrAnt(10) Borg(9.5) Phyzic(9.18) Boudica(8.96) Rauls(8.89) <- weakest sum fpre (8.86) Stockfish(8.75) and so on ValihrAnt(10) UnknownPlayer(8.0) Borg(9.5) Badosu(8.07) Phyzic(9.18) Havran(8.07) Boudica(8.96) Edwarf(8.46) Rauls(8.89) chrstgtr(8.64) fpre (8.86) Stockfish(8.75) and so on ValihrAnt(10) UnknownPlayer(8.0) 18 Borg(9.5) Badosu(8.07) 17.57 Phyzic(9.18) Havran(8.07) 17.25 <- weakest sum Boudica(8.96) Edwarf(8.46) 17.42 Rauls(8.89) chrstgtr(8.64) 17.53 fpre (8.86) Stockfish(8.75) 17.61 ValihrAnt(10) UnknownPlayer(8.0) 18 Metafondations(7.43) 25.43 Borg(9.5) Badosu(8.07) 17.57 Vicentesk(7.64) 25.21 Phyzic(9.18) Havran(8.07) 17.25 Dakara (8.0) 25.25 Boudica(8.96) Edwarf(8.46) 17.42 SaidRdz(7.96) 25.38 Rauls(8.89) chrstgtr(8.64) 17.53 randomid (7.89) 25.42 fpre (8.86) Stockfish(8.75) 17.61 Ricsand(7.57) 25.18 <- weakest sum ValihrAnt(10) UnknownPlayer(8.0) 18 Metafondations(7.43) 25.43 esu(6.04) Borg(9.5) Badosu(8.07) 17.57 Vicentesk(7.64) 25.21 MarcAurel (7.29) Phyzic(9.18) Havran(8.07) 17.25 Dakara (8.0) 25.25 Issh(7.14) Boudica(8.96) Edwarf(8.46) 17.42 SaidRdz(7.96) 25.38 go2die(6.82) Rauls(8.89) chrstgtr(8.64) 17.53 randomid (7.89) 25.42 Lord_Commander (6.62) fpre (8.86) Stockfish(8.75) 17.61 Ricsand(7.57) 25.18 Dakeyras (7.39) I did sums quickly on my head in case of mistakes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eae Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 Some of you make more or less implicit assumptions. I let you think about these assumptions, below are some of them. A player strength (or skill level or whatever you call it) can be reduced to just a number. Thus, if player A is stronger than B, and B stronger than C, then A is stronger than C. This number does not fluctuate (time, computer, internet, game settings such as civs, map, starting resources, positons, etc). You can always easily predict the outcome of a match just based on these numbers. The strength of a team is just the sum of the individual strengths. A variation of this assumption is: the strength of a team is just the sum of the four best individual numbers. Players and observers won't have fun with the current teams. Any player would accept to team up with any other player. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudica Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 3 hours ago, eae said: Some of you make more or less implicit assumptions. You've just made an explicit assumption. 3 hours ago, eae said: A player strength (or skill level or whatever you call it) can be reduced to just a number. Thus, if player A is stronger than B, and B stronger than C, then A is stronger than C. This number does not fluctuate (time, computer, internet, game settings such as civs, map, starting resources, positons, etc). I think it's been already mentioned that the purpose of the rating is to put players in a relative order by their averaged performance over many games and different conditions. These assumptions are correct if you use this definition. 3 hours ago, eae said: You can always easily predict the outcome of a match just based on these numbers. Who made this assumption? Also, I'll bet you $1000 that the weakest team won't win a single game against the top rated teams. I'm not saying that my prediction was easy to make but still. 3 hours ago, eae said: The strength of a team is just the sum of the individual strengths. A variation of this assumption is: the strength of a team is just the sum of the four best individual numbers. Thanks, but this has already been addressed too. Have you read the thread, or are you just trying to argue with a straw man here? I mean, it's not bad to list these as a warning, but as @PhyZik said, the 0 A.D. community is a bunch of nerds. We aren't dumb. 3 hours ago, eae said: Players and observers won't have fun with the current teams. Any player would accept to team up with any other player. Yes, good observation, these really are some questions we've been discussing above. Do you have any arguments to add? Because I've played a few games and I quite know this community. No one watches a pro playing a noob. No one likes to play in an inferior team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGenDz Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 @Marcus Areillius please add my team. OPT aka OPTeam to the bracket. OPT: @LeGenDz @bubblebut @RolandSC2 @SuperPOSITION (+ @faction02 if our contract negotiations move along) Look forward to playing this weekend! 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusAureliu#s Posted May 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 Is there any team that wants to have a bye week on Sunday ? I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badosu Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 What's a bye week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eae Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 5 hours ago, Boudica said: You've just made an explicit assumption. I rather made observations than assumptions. 5 hours ago, Boudica said: I think it's been already mentioned that the purpose of the rating is to put players in a relative order by their averaged performance over many games and different conditions. You mention rating based on averaged performance over many games and different conditions. There is no such data in this thread. The proposed ratings are (average of) assessments, this is a different thing. 5 hours ago, Boudica said: These assumptions are correct if you use this definition. Do you believe these assumptions are also correct for team games? 5 hours ago, Boudica said: Also, I'll bet you $1000 that the weakest team won't win a single game against the top rated teams. I'm not saying that my prediction was easy to make but still. The bet thing is interesting. You say you would bet 1000$, but it does not tell us much. The point is: how much would you win the bet? 5 hours ago, Boudica said: Thanks, but this has already been addressed too. Have you read the thread, or are you just trying to argue with a straw man here? I mean, it's not bad to list these as a warning, but as @PhyZik said, the 0 A.D. community is a bunch of nerds. Please show us where it was addressed in this thread. 5 hours ago, Boudica said: We aren't dumb. This is just an assumption. 5 hours ago, Boudica said: Yes, good observation, these really are some questions we've been discussing above. Those two are not observations, those are assumptions. 5 hours ago, Boudica said: Do you have any arguments to add? Because I've played a few games and I quite know this community. What an argument. 5 hours ago, Boudica said: No one watches a pro playing a noob. No one likes to play in an inferior team. Do you have any argument or data to back these assumptions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusAureliu#s Posted May 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 27 minutes ago, badosu said: What's a bye week? As now we have 7 teams we can still only make 3 pairs/matches so one team has to pause Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusAureliu#s Posted May 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 (edited) In some 1v1 tournament i played ValihrAnt and i would bet 1000£ that i am going to lose 10 out of 10. Still i enjoyed the experience. I understand that some player who are above the team average strength might feel like they have been held back and more competition means more fun to some extend. but still each team has the potential to win some games. I would suggest we play for now while we continue to develope more advanced mechanisms for the next season that allow to improve balance Edited May 28, 2020 by MarcusAureliu#s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badosu Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 @eae protip: avoid engaging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faction02 Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 1 hour ago, LeGenDz said: OPT: @LeGenDz @bubblebut @RolandSC2 @SuperPOSITION (+ @faction02 if our contract negotiations move along) How many cookies??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGenDz Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 24 minutes ago, faction02 said: How many cookies??? One dozen signing bonus with an additional 3 cookies per team win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudica Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 You know what, @eae? If you don't have anything reasonable to bring to the discussion, you better just stop contributing. You are quoting what I said in response to you but not include the original point I was responding to. So am I supposed to go find it myself in order to understand your short answers? I'm not going to do the extra work for you when you don't even feel like going through what had been said by others. The key point remains that you are talking about some assumptions people supposedly made. I asked you who made those assumptions according to your observations. What is the reason why you didn't quote this specifically important question of mine and provide the required information? When I proceeded to explain why it wasn't wrong to make some of those assumptions anyway, you come back re-framing specifically those as your observations. Well, great job taking the credit for my work. You aren't being smart by responding to my assumptions with "this is an assumption" either. I supply a reason why I state something (even if you decide to leave it out of the quotation), which is the opposite of what you've been doing. Like it or not, the reasons I provide are not always exact data. I sure could provide the data in some cases, but it's enough for the purpose of this discussion if I can prove my credibility regarding a topic and state my opinion, or just roughly state what I base my opinion on. By quoting a price, I'm demonstrating how strong I believe my statement. When another credible person has a completely different option, which is unlikely to happen, we'll have to work with the real data we have. I'm not going to do this for you here now because your contribution has been of little value and it would be a waste of my time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eae Posted May 29, 2020 Report Share Posted May 29, 2020 @Boudica my key point was to provoke thought, not to point fingers at people. Let people try events and improve. In responses to my intial message, you bring little value to the discussion and do various rhetoric such as pointless question. You are also trying to discredit me with false accusations. I keep note that you admit making no effort to read previous message and that you prioritise your beliefs over data, facts and arguments. You are not proving your credibility at all. (A detail: I used the quote button and my original quotes were skipped each time. Hopefully the original one is still unmodified above in the thread.) The bet thing is a relevant point. Let's say you consider T1 is the "strongest" team and T2 the "weakest" team and you bet 1000$ on T1. If T2 wins, you lose 1000$. If T1 wins, what is your net profit? I am also asking this question to @MarcusAureliu#s 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy22 Posted May 30, 2020 Report Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) Valihrant - 10 Borg- 9.25 Stockfish - 8.75 Phyzic - 8 Boudica - 8 Havran - 8 Faction - 8 Edwarf - 8 Rauls - 8 Fpre - 8 Saidrdz - 8 Chrsgtr - 7.75 Unknown_player - 7.75 Ricsand - 7.75 Dakara - 7.5 Randomid - 7.5 Issh - 7.25 Go2die - 7 When i consider 0.25 as big different. All those players got rating of 8 by me are not equals but +- Edited May 30, 2020 by Wendy22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badosu Posted May 30, 2020 Report Share Posted May 30, 2020 @Wendy22 U forgot: Badosu - 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy22 Posted May 30, 2020 Report Share Posted May 30, 2020 @badosu havent play with u for long time, i guess 11 will be fair tho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faction02 Posted May 30, 2020 Report Share Posted May 30, 2020 3 hours ago, PhyZik said: May Gods fpre (8.25), MarcAurel (7.25), Lord_Commander (6.5), randomid (7.75)French Dakara (7.5), esu(6.75), Metafondations(7.5), Dakeyras (7.5) eae em Badosu(7.5), Stockfish(9), borg-(9.25) , Vicentesk(8)Animal Farm ValihrAnt(9.75), PhyZic(8.5), Issh(7.25), Edwarf(7.75), aow(5.75)Los Gringos chrstgtr(8.75), Rauls(8.25), SaidRdz(8), Ricsand(8)??? Boudica(8.5), UnknownPlayer(7.75), Havran(8), go2die(7) RIP perfect 10... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faction02 Posted June 2, 2020 Report Share Posted June 2, 2020 (edited) Here are my ratings ValihrAnt(10.25) borg-(eae) PhyZic(goat) Boudica(rush) Rauls(always connected) fpre (fgod) Stockfish(1vs1) chrstgtr(op) Edwarf(nub) Badosu(?) Havran(The pride of tier3) UnknownPlayer(rams) Dakara (Croissant) SaidRdz(8) randomid (spam) Ricsand(Brit&Nub host) Metafondations(Crêpe) Dakeyras (Baguette) Issh(Preacher of nubness) esu(Fr) aow (colgate) ITRELLES (Lasagna) darkcity(nub) go2die(kushites) Palaiologos(fail) those are approximate ratings, they shouldn't be taken too seriously. Edited June 8, 2020 by faction02 It didn't feel right to rate all French players t the same level, their ratings has been precised. go2die was missing. Where was Palai? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusAureliu#s Posted June 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 minute ago, faction02 said: Here are my ratings ValihrAnt(10.25) borg-(eae) PhyZic(goat) Boudica(rush) Rauls(always connected) fpre (fgod) Stockfish(1vs1) chrstgtr(op) Edwarf(nub) Badosu(?) Havran(The pride of tier3) UnknownPlayer(rams) Dakara (Fr) SaidRdz(8) randomid (spam) Ricsand(Brit&Nub host) Metafondations(Fr) Dakeyras (Fr) Issh(Preacher of nubness) esu(Fr) aow (colgate) ITRELLES (Lasagna) darkcity(nub) those are approximate ratings, they shouldn't be taken too seriously. You forgot randomid rating 41 Also you should enter some team eae 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badosu Posted June 2, 2020 Report Share Posted June 2, 2020 18 minutes ago, faction02 said: Havran(The pride of tier3) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGenDz Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 Thanks for posting this schedule @go2die . Looks great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyconcepts Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Wow 3 games today if i read it correctly... GO TEAM ! ! ! (YOU TOO CAN DO IT TOO @badosu ! !) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGenDz Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 @JC (naval supremacist) @RolandSC2 @bubblebut @superposition will you be available at 19:00 GMT? I’m on now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soloooy0 Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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