Age of Empires IV

[ChronA]

You guys can scoff all you like, but based on what I'm seeing and reading I'd lay even money that AoE4 is going to be a game that dictates the expectations and mindshare of 0 AD for the next 5-10 years.

Let's talk about the good things they are doing:

• The game runs smoothly in a performant, modern, 3D engine with serviceable graphics that will almost certainly improve over time thanks to patches and modding.
• The gameplay we've seen preserves most of the complexity of AoE2's timeless systems, while also adopting a much more asymmetric roster of civilization designs. (Some of these new civilization concepts might significantly expand the design space of historical RTS.)
• It explores some interesting micro-gameplay concepts. History RTS tends to fixate on projectile dodging and kiting, which are high skill floor and low ceiling, so having a high profile game try to showcase something else is good.
• AoE4 has faster matches and tech progression than a lot of games in its space. Military buildup is also fast and action looks like it will start early. This is a nice concession to the reality that the people who grew up with this genre are now adults under a lot of time pressure. Non-rush games don't need to take 50-60 minutes to resolve.
• The game is doing some really interesting things with contextual doodads around buildings.
• The game's ambient sound design is reportedly superb - although there is clearly still room for improvement. (ding ding)
• It is releasing in a finished (or nearly finished) state on October 28, 2021.

This is all amazing in my book. I'm not sure good enough to usurp AoE2's e-sports throne. It might not even be enough to prevent it falling into semi-obscurity like the other entries in the Age series. But for 0 AD it will do one thing that is tremendously important: demonstrate that it is possible to make a high quality, modern re-adaptation of the AoE2 design philosophy. AoE4 is (in all the ways that matter to a broad audience) what 0 AD is supposed to be. It's the promise this project was sold to us with, and it's coming to you in a few weeks from the hands of a bunch Microsoft MBAs who are more interested in this quarter's profits than making great games.

This stings to anyone who believes in FOSS, but the answer is not to nurse our insecurities. It's time to start taking notes. What works and what doesn't? What should 0 AD copy and what can it improve on? Can Wildfire use any of their design research to break out of its multi-decadal development pace? These are important questions, because if AoE4 is good (or even just pretty good) 0 AD will have to change its sales pitch to remain relevant. "Sort of like AoE4, but antiquity, and you get what you pay for" will not cut it--particularly if mod support is coming.

Edited September 22, 2021 by ChronA

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

3 hours ago, ChronA said:

This stings to anyone who believes in FOSS, but the answer is not to nurse our insecurities. It's time to start taking notes. What works and what doesn't? What should 0 AD copy and what can it improve on? Can Wildfire use any of their design research to break out of its multi-decadal development pace? These are important questions, because if AoE4 is good (or even just pretty good) 0 AD will have to change its sales pitch to remain relevant. "Sort of like AoE4, but antiquity, and you get what you pay for" will not cut it--particularly if mod support is coming.

Age of Empires IV: Delenda Est

 

I'm currently reinstalling BfMEII to get my battalion combat fix.

Edited September 19, 2021 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

I can't believe I just realized this, but apparently in AoE4, all projectiles are 100% accurate, even to the point where an arrow can exceed maximum range if the target was in range when the arrow was fired. I thought it was a fun gameplay mechanic from AoE 2, and I can't understand why they decided to remove it, or even strike a middle ground and have only moderate inaccuracy. 

 

 

 

 

[Dakara]

On 19/09/2021 at 8:16 PM, ChronA said:

You guys can scoff all you like, but based on what I'm seeing and reading I'd lay even money that AoE4 is going to be a game that dictates the expectations and mindshare of 0 AD for the next 5-10 years.

Let's talk about the good things they are doing:

• The game runs smoothly in a performant, modern, 3D engine with serviceable graphics that will almost certainly improve over time thanks to patches and modding.
• The gameplay we've seen preserves most of the complexity of AoE2's timeless systems, while also adopting a much more asymmetric roster of civilization designs. (Some of these new civilization concepts might significantly expand the design space of historical RTS.)
• It explores some interesting micro-gameplay concepts. History RTS tends to fixate on projectile dodging and kiting, which are high skill floor and low ceiling, so having a high profile game try to showcase something else is good.
• AoE4 has faster matches and tech progression than a lot of games in its space. Military buildup is also fast and action looks like it will start early. This is a nice concession to the reality that the people who grew up with this genre are now adults under a lot of time pressure. Non-rush games don't need to take 50-60 minutes to resolve.
• The game is doing some really interesting things with contextual doodads around buildings.
• It is releasing in a finished (or nearly finished) state on October 28, 2021.

This is all amazing in my book. I'm not sure good enough to usurp AoE2's e-sports throne. It might not even be enough to prevent it falling into semi-obscurity like the other entries in the Age series. But for 0 AD it will do one thing that is tremendously important: demonstrate that it is possible to make a high quality, modern re-adaptation of the AoE2 design philosophy. AoE4 is (in all the ways that matter to a broad audience) what 0 AD is supposed to be. It's the promise this project was sold to us with, and it's coming to you in a few weeks from the hands of a bunch Microsoft MBAs who are more interested in this quarter's profits than making great games.

This stings to anyone who believes in FOSS, but the answer is not to nurse our insecurities. It's time to start taking notes. What works and what doesn't? What should 0 AD copy and what can it improve on? Can Wildfire use any of their design research to break out of its multi-decadal development pace? These are important questions, because if AoE4 is good (or even just pretty good) 0 AD will have to change its sales pitch to remain relevant. "Sort of like AoE4, but antiquity, and you get what you pay for" will not cut it--particularly if mod support is coming.

AOE 4 is @#$% don't try convince us. there is nothing innovative to copy

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I agree. I hate the super generic pixel art-ish style of modern game icons. 

[Stan`]

I guess the modern trend is clarity over beauty and consistency over variety/realisticity.

[ChronA]

17 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

I can't believe I just realized this, but apparently in AoE4, all projectiles are 100% accurate, even to the point where an arrow can exceed maximum range if the target was in range when the arrow was fired. I thought it was a fun gameplay mechanic from AoE 2, and I can't understand why they decided to remove it, or even strike a middle ground and have only moderate inaccuracy. 

Yes, this irks me as well. As much as I think projectile dodging is lousy as a skill mechanic, homing projectiles are a big stylistic mismatch for an ancient warfare RTS.

Apparently they ditched all AoE2's elevation based attack bonuses too. It's a very odd choice considering the game sells itself on other terrain effects like the concealment-inside-forests thing. In my book a next-gen history RTS ought to have all the terrain effects.

[psypherium]

[Genava55]

 

[LetswaveaBook]

3 hours ago, psypherium said:

Disappointingly, for most people it is reversed.

[Radiotraining]

56 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

 

I just found this exact video a few minutes ago on youtube!

I don't know... calling it a "masterpiece" is a bit too early I think, but overall is interesting to see the different reactions on the game. So far it has been pretty divisive: Some people love it, some people hate it. But surely is bound to stay and probably become a relevant title in the rts universe.

Personally I would say it looks fun to play, but is not particularly memorable. On the contrary, it would appear a bit "anonymous" if it weren't for the heavy legacy it brings with it. But is definitely not a bad game as some people try to depict it.

Optimistically it can still offer both opportunities and threats to 0ad. Is not the groundbreaking game it promised to be, so there's still space for 0ad to shine as direct alternative. Especially by catering the frustration of old aoe2 hardcore fans disappointed by the new release.

Is still a potential threat because it's going to naturally steal the spot from 0ad for a while and set a new gameplay standard that we'll have all to deal with. But at the same time it can offer a new opportunity by fostering some innovations in the game. It would be pretty cool if in the future will be possible to have features like "ambushing", or switching weapons feature. Or the battalion idea in Delenda Est. The competition may push for some cool changes and hopefully can bring a new energy and momentum on 0ad.

But as always, this depends on the effort and desires of the devs and I can't thank all the crew enough for all the work and passion they put behind the project! All the new attention from the rts world made me want to get back playing with the good old 0ad even more!

 

 

[borg-]

AOE4 is good but doesn't use full potential. I think one year after the release it is using 100% potential, and I think it will be a great game for a few years.

Developers gave up realism and graphic quality in exchange for visibility, and most of that is due to the scenery/hills, so not having any buffs/debuffs is a bit dumb in my opinion. They are listening to the community, and should be working hard on it by the 28th.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

I think AoE 4 could be great.

To be honest, just adding hill bonus and proper projectile mechanics like they exist in AoE2 would be wonderful. People complain that noobs don’t want to have to learn these skills, but in my opinion it’s ok if there is room to improve in the game. If there is no room to improve, it will become boring very quickly.

Personally I liked the castle mechanics, as well as the battlefield siege construction. There is some balancing to be done of course, and also the “fighting on walls” seemed comedically broken during open beta.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

18 hours ago, Stan` said:

I guess the modern trend is clarity over beauty and consistency over variety/realisticity.

I think that's what they're shooting for, but I think the style misses the mark. With every icon using the same 2 colors (black and yellow), any "clarity" achieved with the simplified shapes is made moot by the new lack of distinction. Players need icons and buttons to be distinct at a glance. AOEIV's and other games icons don't have this. 

[Stan`]

I suppose that with the recent flat design and lack of icon character, it's easier for people used to it to get used to such an interface?

[Lion.Kanzen]

It is not very deep, it is more casual and superficial.

 

This is the best video I saw of this game.

 

[Lopess]

 

Those city textures that appear under the buildings are really nice, it could have something like that in 0ad.

[Radiotraining]

this is looking like the most interesting civ so far! 

 

Key takeways (to me):

- Reward of high risk strategies (let's see how it translates in the game, but is an interesting indicator of how the civilization has been set)

- the "Khan". Very interesting, brings some special bonuses like a hero, but is still a common unit

- "Yam network" tech to improve speed in your area: that's something been discussed for the Romans in 0ad and I find the concept really interesting in my opinion!

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Radiotraining

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

4 hours ago, Radiotraining said:

this is looking like the most interesting civ so far! 

 

Key takeways (to me):

- Reward of high risk strategies (let's see how it translates in the game, but is an interesting indicator of how the civilization has been set)

- the "Khan". Very interesting, brings some special bonuses like a hero, but is still a common unit

- "Yam network" tech to improve speed in your area: that's something been discussed for the Romans in 0ad and I find the concept really interesting in my opinion!

 

My main concern is how annoying it will be to fight mangudai when they are faster than most other units in the game and able to attack while moving while hitting 100% of their shots (each arrow is laser-guided). I feel this will lead to situations where the mangudai are always able to do damage and always able to avoid damage.

I feel the projectile (even bombard cannon) 100% accuracy will make the game very shallow and eventually boring. Right now the "landmark victory" means all you need to do is snipe 4-5 buildings to win the game, even if your enemy is easily capable of beating you after the loss of those buildings.

Edited October 10, 2021 by BreakfastBurrito_007

[alre]

19 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

I feel this will lead to situations where the mangudai are always able to do damage and always able to avoid damage.

that's the idea. the whole appeal of horse archers comes from there.

[Genava55]

 

[Radiotraining]

Nice campaign sneak peek

[Lion.Kanzen]

The game looks so cartoony that's like Shrek to be coming out at any moment.

The units look so chubby.

 

the terrain is beautiful.

It doesn't look like an AoE or in the campaign.

In the first scenario they give you everything done. I would like to see them playing RoR: The birth of Rome.

**Swordman without helmet...my gosh...

Edited October 26, 2021 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

less than 13 minutes the first scenario ...

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

the opinion of a youtuber is the worst way to form an opinion. and less about a game (or a movie)

I like the Review, it can have all the money to be an E-sport, but it will never be old school.

Someone who seeks to please everyone is someone who falls halfway in to the mediocrity

Edited October 26, 2021 by Lion.Kanzen