Borg Expansion Pack Mod implementation in 0ad alpha 24 release.

[Stan`]

5 hours ago, borg- said:

I want to take the opportunity to say that the letter "H" is not working correctly in svn. Some units are not attacking the nearest and running towards the enemy.
 

@Freagarach @wraitii

[Freagarach]

6 hours ago, borg- said:

I want to take the opportunity to say that the letter "H" is not working correctly in svn. Some units are not attacking the nearest and running towards the enemy.
 

Got a replay for that?

[Silier]

@borg- possible targets are not ordered by distance. Unit always just attacks first possible target which is able based on stance.

 

Edit: Actually range manger is sorting all targets by distance. Had not that targeted units preferred classes ?

Edited November 12, 2019 by Angen

[badosu]

3 hours ago, Freagarach said:

Got a replay for that?

 

commands.txt metadata.json

[borg-]

5 hours ago, Angen said:

@borg- possible targets are not ordered by distance. Unit always just attacks first possible target which is able based on stance.

 

Edit: Actually range manger is sorting all targets by distance. Had not that targeted units preferred classes ?

No. If you press H again, it works correctly.

Edited November 12, 2019 by borg-

[borg-]

To be more exact, around 8:23, some of my camels attack the slings that are taking stone, but they should focus on the women who were much closer.

I had noticed this a long time ago, I think I had already told elexis.

Edited November 12, 2019 by borg-

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

I would be interested to see how you see siege units fitting into the meta (not regarding buildings of course).  

[Freagarach]

16 hours ago, borg- said:

I want to take the opportunity to say that the letter "H" is not working correctly in svn. Some units are not attacking the nearest and running towards the enemy.
 

7 hours ago, badosu said:

commands.txt 441.48 kB · 3 downloads

4 hours ago, borg- said:

To be more exact, around 8:23, some of my camels attack the slings that are taking stone, but they should focus on the women who were much closer.

I had noticed this a long time ago, I think I had already told elexis.

It took some time to figure out but this seemed to have happened:

When pressing "Stop" on an unit one sends it to the IDLE state. In that state there is a timer (set to fire on the next turn) to attack units which are close. There is also a listener that fires when there are new units entering the LOS of the unit. When that listner fires, it immidiately switches out of the IDLE state to attack the nearest new unit.

In this case, there was a LOS update on the same turn as the camel archer entered the IDLE-state, therefore the abovementioned listner switched the camel archer out of the IDLE state before the timer could fire and the unit started to attack the nearest newly visible unit (the slinger gathering stone).

I hope this clarifies it? Otherwise, please ask

[borg-]

1 hour ago, Freagarach said:

It took some time to figure out but this seemed to have happened:

When pressing "Stop" on an unit one sends it to the IDLE state. In that state there is a timer (set to fire on the next turn) to attack units which are close. There is also a listener that fires when there are new units entering the LOS of the unit. When that listner fires, it immidiately switches out of the IDLE state to attack the nearest new unit.

In this case, there was a LOS update on the same turn as the camel archer entered the IDLE-state, therefore the abovementioned listner switched the camel archer out of the IDLE state before the timer could fire and the unit started to attack the nearest newly visible unit (the slinger gathering stone).

I hope this clarifies it? Otherwise, please ask

Ok, but that's a problem no?
This does not happen in alpha 23 or previous.

[borg-]

I decrease the units 'vision, but it also seems to affect the units' attack range. Even if I have something giving vision to the units, they don't attack. Is there any way to change this?

Edited November 13, 2019 by borg-

[borg-]

Another problem I found in svn is that melee cavalry has a much difficulty for killing a fast animal. They can't get close enough to the animal to hit.

@Stan` @Freagarach

Edited November 13, 2019 by borg-

[Freagarach]

12 hours ago, borg- said:

Ok, but that's a problem no?
This does not happen in alpha 23 or previous.

Yep, that's a bug I'll try to find out when it was introduced and notify the author.

7 hours ago, borg- said:

I decrease the units 'vision, but it also seems to affect the units' attack range. Even if I have something giving vision to the units, they don't attack. Is there any way to change this?

There is a way to change that, but I think it would introduce nasty side effects (units attacking units in FOW). You'd probably need to play around with the "GetQueryRange" function in UnitAI. As one can see now it takes the minimum of the vision and attack ranges. (I was thinking about splitting the ranges to make them less dependent, but I think it is hard to get right.)

5 hours ago, borg- said:

Another problem I found in svn is that melee cavalry has a much difficulty for killing a fast animal. They can't get close enough to the animal to hit.

@Stan` @Freagarach

Not much more to say than: "Yes." Work has been done on this but probably the best solution would be subunits; the rider being able to attack independently from the movement of the horse. That would allow the horse to keep following the animal whilst the rider attacks (Total War style).

Edited November 13, 2019 by Freagarach

[Nescio]

10 hours ago, borg- said:

I decrease the units 'vision, but it also seems to affect the units' attack range. Even if I have something giving vision to the units, they don't attack. Is there any way to change this?

If e.g. archers have an attack range of 60, then make sure all human soldiers have a vision of at least 65, otherwise they wouldn't be able to see who's attacking them.

8 hours ago, borg- said:

Another problem I found in svn is that melee cavalry has a much difficulty for killing a fast animal. They can't get close enough to the animal to hit.

Range is calculated from centre to edge (see e.g. https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/25424-structure-range/&tab=comments#comment-370070 ), which means melee units ought to have an attack range which is greater than their footprint radius. Cavalry has a footprint length of 6, so they need an attack range of at least 6/2+1=4.

[borg-]

Tnx @Freagarach and @Nescio .

[Alexandermb]

@borg- what are your thoughts on making archers stronger but with a longer attack repeat timer taking around 10 or 15 seconds to aim + the rest of the animation in realistic human speed reducing attacking speed while increasing piercing damage?

At this point from a Realistic view, they are like sharpshooters or guide anti-aircraft missiles aiming and firing in no time. Whitout mentioning the gattling guns of archer champions suchs as athen ranged champion.

[Lion.Kanzen]

@DarcReaver any advice? 

[DarcReaver]

4 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

@DarcReaver any advice? 

What exactly? The Slinger problem again?

10 hours ago, Alexandermb said:

@borg- what are your thoughts on making archers stronger but with a longer attack repeat timer taking around 10 or 15 seconds to aim + the rest of the animation in realistic human speed reducing attacking speed while increasing piercing damage?

At this point from a Realistic view, they are like sharpshooters or guide anti-aircraft missiles aiming and firing in no time. Whitout mentioning the gattling guns of archer champions suchs as athen ranged champion.

This only makes sense if you use battalions. Having single units fire with such low frequency makes small amounts of units useless.

[Alexandermb]

2 hours ago, DarcReaver said:

What exactly? The Slinger problem again?

This only makes sense if you use battalions. Having single units fire with such low frequency makes small amounts of units useless.

Exactly, making archers cheaper for mass train, weaker in defenses making cavalry more valuable for cut the arrow volley before getting too much damage from them while aiming for realism.

A single archer wouldn't do too much harm unless he is Hawkeye from Marvel or the Native American from the 7 magnifecents.

Look at the athen ranged champion or cleopatra archer and you'll see the huge realism/gameplay breach that we have in archers repeat time just like exist with cavalry spearman attacking in slowmo.

[Nescio]

30 minutes ago, Alexandermb said:

making cavalry more valuable for cut the arrow volley before getting too much damage from them while aiming for realism

You could also considering increasing archer attack spread (making them less effective at long range) or reducing the footprint of cavalry. Lightly armed troops wreaking havoc on cavalry, chariots, and elephants is not unrealistic, though; e.g. the Battle of Magnesia in 190 BC (Livy XXXV.41-42 [EDIT]: XXXVII.41-42).

Edited November 18, 2019 by Nescio
wrong book

[Alexandermb]

1 minute ago, Nescio said:

You could also considering increasing archer attack spread (making them less effective at long range) or reducing the footprint of cavalry. Lightly armed troops wreaking havoc on cavalry, chariots, and elephants is not unrealistic, though; e.g. the Battle of Magnesia in 190 BC (Livy XXXV.41-42).

If people nowadays can get scared easily by a Pitbull (i had one wich died recently and he scared any1 who came to my home) why not an Elephant?  Wish we had an Out of Control behavior wich gets triggered by loss of morale or scared by any other fauna animals like Lions or Crocodiles.

[Silier]

archer has already higher spread for max range compared to javelinist spread for max range. I made thread somewhere why is javelinist better option than archer

Edited November 18, 2019 by Angen
I type too fast so i dont know what i type

[Alexandermb]

1 minute ago, Angen said:

why is javelinist better option than javelinist

Spoiler

 

[Nescio]

2 minutes ago, Angen said:

archer has already higher spread for max range compared to javelinist spread for max range. I made thread somewhere why is javelinist better option than javelinist

Javelineers have the highest damage per second?

[Silier]

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

17 hours ago, Angen said:

 

You are faster... Almost i paste same topic here.