Deforestation - Wood should be a renwable resource

[Sundiata]

5 minutes ago, Jofursloft said:

But now let's suppose that 2 players are playing a small map and they both decide not to rush, so not to hunt. This means that when they will decide to attack, around minute 16-17, there will be something like 100+ camels in the map. That's quite crazy, don't you think? XD

Each herd would be capped at a max pop, depending on the species.

Same thing for forests. Once the predetermined forested areas are saturated, no new trees would grow. Forest could have different settings depending on the map. In reality, only some peripheral forests would remain because most people would still cut all the forests in their base 100% for quick early income. "Forest management" would be more of a late game thing. 

Edited October 14, 2018 by Sundiata

[balduin]

30 minutes ago, Sundiata said:

Each herd would be capped at a max pop, depending on the species

I agree with @Sundiata here. Herds should be capped either for the entire map or for a herd.

Furthermore, I would like to see a difference between female and male animals. Only female animals should be able to reproduce. In addition, every animal needs more or less time to reproduce. A chicken has usually several chicks in a couple of weeks. An elephant, on the other hand is pregnant for around two years. After that they need some time to grow up and they are considered adults at the age of 18.

It really depends on the animal how long it takes to get to a baby and how long it takes to grow up. This also explains why we domesticate different animals as food source.

However, I think the animal topic should be put into a separate forum post.

Edited October 14, 2018 by balduin

[Altrine]

Yeah it would be true but in practice it would be not be possible because we make animals extinct within the first 15 minutes like me because I have 5 Cav to collect food from wild animals. So extinction is more than booming of animal because if leave a herd for 5 minutes with 5 deer's it becomes 7 matured and 3 babies in 3 minutes and 10 matured and 7 babies in 5 minutes 30 adult and 20 babies in 10th minute goes too much. 

[balduin]

2 minutes ago, Altrine said:

Yeah it would be true but in practice it would be not be possible because we make animals extinct within the first 15 minutes like me because I have 5 Cav to collect food from wild animals.

If you exhaust resources that fast that is your choice. However, you also seem to play mostly competitive multiplayer games.

Additionally, it is anybodies choice to cut down all the trees and exhaust all natural renewable resources on a map. However, it would be nice to have the choice to do the opposite.

[dmzerocold]

1 hour ago, Jofursloft said:

This means that when they will decide to attack, around minute 16-17, there will be something like 100+ camels in the map

Why 100+ ?

lets say when you start the game there are 4 groups of camel on map ( 1v1 map , and each group has 4 camel and each group max is 10) normally 1 or 2 of them near you...  and lets assume every 4 mins 1 mature camel add to each group (2 min baby , 2 min mature) so each group  reproduce 1 mature camel every 4 mins ,

So after 16 mins in total 4 x 4 = 16 camel added in total  i think you assume each camel reproduce a new baby camel, but what i propose is each group of camels reproduce 1 camel after x mins

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by dmzerocold

[Thorrky]

Some of tooltips talk about a future feature of being able to herd wild animals into the corral to make long term gains - perhaps this could be how you breed new animals. The player has the strategic choice of getting the food quickly or keeping them to provide a better income late game?

[SirPope]

I've got an idea on how this regrowing trees could work.

Resource trickle rates / healing as said earlier (a very small rate). If the tree gets down to 0 (or a set amount), change it's obstruction mask to allow for foundations and update the model to a stump (or to invisible). This would allow buildings to be placed upon it. A check would be needed in foundations to remove the Stump file / class / model from the world in some way.

Hard parts:

Animations: They could be added later (if the idea / mod even works). Perhaps percentage based filenames or the animation speed is controlled by the resource value somehow.

Growing: I'd say "stumps" are only allowed to trickle it's resources back if it's near fully grown trees and no other entities within a range (similar to the game of life). That part might be hard to implement efficiently. You don't want villagers, buildings, or deer to be trapped by Ents. The check would kind of be needed. A bit of randomness could be added to make them grow at different rates or whether they grow at all.

--

If this is turned into a mod of some sort it'd be rather neat to play. It'd add a layer of management.

I don't really see how it could be done without modifying the engine itself though. *shrugs*

[Altrine]

8 hours ago, balduin said:

If you exhaust resources that fast that is your choice. However, you also seem to play mostly competitive multiplayer games.

Additionally, it is anybodies choice to cut down all the trees and exhaust all natural renewable resources on a map. However, it would be nice to have the choice to do the opposite.

One might be true but in 1v1 games I take mostly small maps so that we'll just kill the animals near our territory the only animals left alive would be the animal in the centre. 

[Lion.Kanzen]

In empire earth(1 and 2) they setup the number maximum of each specie for map. I don't see the problem.

[wackyserious]

Maturing trees. Where the new spawns would be tree saplings and these saplings would auto research a maturity tech which is set to, let us say 10 minutes. Saplings provide minimal wood, while moderately aged trees provide decent amount of wood, on the other hand, fully mature trees provide large amounts of wood and are capable of spawning new trees in its vicinity.

[Astrid]

They can make it to where when you cut down the trees there is a chance you can get a sprout that you can use to replant some trees.

[Altrine]

Well they would just mature more faster like 5 minutes and 2 minutes per sapling. 

[Loki1950]

22 minutes ago, Altrine said:

Well they would just mature more faster like 5 minutes and 2 minutes per sapling. 

So who cast the magic spell to grow them that fast you are completely ignoring the internal time line of the game most single player games represent at most two seasons of a year ie: Six months 

Enjoy the Choice

[Dakara]

Hi,

Play with the gather of the map is the best choice.

As for me, menage ressources of map give fascinating aspect.

[Sundiata]

5 hours ago, Loki1950 said:

So who cast the magic spell to grow them that fast you are completely ignoring the internal time line of the game most single player games represent at most two seasons of a year ie: Six months 

5 or 2 minutes is indeed waaaaay too fast for trees growing, but how did you arrive at "single player games represent at most two seasons of a year ie: Six months"? Building a town, fortifications, monuments and satellite settlements included, and expanding its population to the point of being able to recruit an army for offensive campaigns usually takes a few generations... 

[Nescio]

When trying to figure out suitable upkeep (negative resource trickle) rates in my mod, I decided that one second represents a day, so 30 seconds would be a month, 6 minutes about a year, and 1 hour a decade. I don't pretend it's a perfect approximation, but given that wars in Antiquity could last for a single season but also continue on and off for decades, it works acceptably for me.

[Genava55]

Deforestation is quite a normal thing in ancient times:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/4004530?seq=7#metadata_info_tab_contents

Even the region of the actual France was less covered by the forests at the time of the Gauls than these days.

If you are interested in forestry management:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimal_rotation_age

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppicing

Some species can be used in coppicing management, others not.

 

[Astrid]

It's sad to know Europe and USA was all forests at one time. Where I live in Bergen/ Norway is a whole forest that was never touched,and when I get off work I go into that forest and daydream,read or play OAD

[Guest]

7.2 Billion is a large number. It was inevitable.

[Sundiata]

3 hours ago, Astrid said:

It's sad to know Europe and USA was all forests at one time. Where I live in Bergen/ Norway is a whole forest that was never touched,and when I get off work I go into that forest and daydream,read or play OAD

You play 0AD in the forest?! Maybe I should go for a hike and play some jungle games myself. The scorpions might add some excitement. A bit of an X-factor. 

 

55 minutes ago, (-_-) said:

7.2 Billion is a large number. It was inevitable.

If you explore the globe a little from space with google earth, our species is like a cancer... A lot of the deforestation in my area for example is completely nonsensical. Short term benefits, long term problems. A lot of it stems from a complete lack of respect for nature, and the inability to understand how it affects the weather patterns and crop-yields. Subsistence farming is slowly becoming a thing of the past. Big agribusinesses are taking over, with all the associated problems. The world is now producing more food than ever, but food security is simultaneously diminishing at alarming rates... We desperately need to start replanting forests, or I'm afraid nature will do it for us, on top of the ruins of the modern world. 

I wonder if in a few thousand years from now, when populations have rebounded from the cataclysm of the 21st Century and a new global system has arisen, if there will be forums like this, creating virtual games depicting our time, arguing about whether spear cavalry is anachronistic or not during the Vietnam war, or whether mobile suits like Gundams, often depicted in 21st century art, were actually used in combat or whether they were purely ceremonial.   

[Astrid]

On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 12:34 PM, Sundiata said:

You play 0AD in the forest?! Maybe I should go for a hike and play some jungle games myself. The scorpions might add some excitement. A bit of an X-factor. 

 

If you explore the globe a little from space with google earth, our species is like a cancer... A lot of the deforestation in my area for example is completely nonsensical. Short term benefits, long term problems. A lot of it stems from a complete lack of respect for nature, and the inability to understand how it affects the weather patterns and crop-yields. Subsistence farming is slowly becoming a thing of the past. Big agribusinesses are taking over, with all the associated problems. The world is now producing more food than ever, but food security is simultaneously diminishing at alarming rates... We desperately need to start replanting forests, or I'm afraid nature will do it for us, on top of the ruins of the modern world. 

I wonder if in a few thousand years from now, when populations have rebounded from the cataclysm of the 21st Century and a new global system has arisen, if there will be forums like this, creating virtual games depicting our time, arguing about whether spear cavalry is anachronistic or not during the Vietnam war, or whether mobile suits like Gundams, often depicted in 21st century art, were actually used in combat or whether they were purely ceremonial.   

I live in my forest more than my house heh I love hiking through the forest,and just lying down looking up at the beautiful pure blue sky {a lot of time here in Bergen the sky is grey,so much raining in this city lol} or sitting hearing the water flow,and the nature.

Yes I bring my lap top when I want to play OAD while in the forest lol It's so much more relaxing than playing on my desktop in my house but when I play with my husband we are in the house because he hates playing on a lap without a desk or table.

You have the scorpions and I have the wolves lol Let's not forget there is a bit of danger on our adventures lol The forest so vast and deep holds anything from a hungry wolf to a cute rabbit.,and your jungle holds even more hungry animals lol

 We do need to plant more trees,and I am one that does plants oaks,and fruit trees,and if more did plant trees we would have our beautiful forests back. It all started with we need resources to money,and greed,and you won't ever change some greedy person's mind, but you can always preseves,and show nature you still love her. What you take from nature you must return,and eventually you will get a favour back from mother nature whether it is another berry bush that you picked berries from or even an apple tree. The best way I return what I take from mother nature is  I say a prayer when I am ready to pick a berry or when I am fishing with my favourite uncle.

Also a lot should learn how to hunt/gather because our forebears survived just with that skill for getting food,and they were healthy and stronger in the past than now. After domestication everything went to hel from environment to health.

You have a great point about what we will question in the future lol 

[Sundiata]

@Astrid, playing 0AD in the forest really sounds awesome... I've honestly entertained the idea, just never gotten around to it... 

9 hours ago, Astrid said:

even more hungry animals lol

I wish... The largest mammals I still see are a surprising variety of squirrels and the occasional mongoose. We have duikers and civet cats as well, but I never see them in the wild. They're super shy. I only see them being sold as bush meat by the road side as local delicacies... I really can't stand it when people eat locally nearly extinct species, just because "they like the taste". Eat a darn chicken already! People here seriously don't value wildlife. Most want to live like Westerners, or their confused impression of "Western lifestyle". Most people wouldn't be caught dead walking in the forests. They're scarred of ghosts/spirits and "tigers". Lol. it's so sad... The only thing we still have plenty is lizards, a crazy variety of snakes, and a lot of cool birds, ranging from petite sun birds to massive eagles, hornbills and even the occasional parrot and turaco. The intact pieces of forest are wonderful, almost like naturally manicured  botanical gardens full of butterflies and a ton of wild orchids and other flowers. It's magical. But most people here want to just cut it all and flow concrete over it. It's like a sick obsession... There's a lot of "Christian" fundamentalism here, and they associate the forests with traditional religion and "juju", so they demonize it. It makes me cry. A lot of the "untouched" forests are either on steep hillsides difficult to exploit, or they're actually ancestral groves where royals/chiefs/kings are buried in unmarked graves. The only other forests are protected reserves.     

Our land is full of trees that we planted or encouraged to grow over the past 20 years. All sorts of thing grow here, and now its turned into a little oasis in the middle of a growing residential sprawl. Large amount of birds take refuge here. At least 4 species of squirrels also live in our garden. 

[Silier]

On 10/16/2018 at 4:24 AM, Loki1950 said:

So who cast the magic spell to grow them that fast you are completely ignoring the internal time line of the game most single player games represent at most two seasons of a year ie: Six months 

Enjoy the Choice

I dont think so

Units  are gathering from farms almost everitime so there is always gathering season which means years are running super fast. On the other side tree gathering or animal killing is thing of some hours or one day with traveling. And there is also unit movement. So I do not think we can measure ingame time properly. 

[Servo]

Put Day/night cycle. Penalize gatherers during night with around up to 60 less HP. BTW CS gathers year round without penalty too. 

Thats why SP is better to play than MP as you can manage and preserve the resources around your base especially the trees. The problem is there are few skirmish or random maps that are interesting to play. 

[Guest]

Day/night cycles would wreck the game timeline though. Most RTS game mechanics make sense because the time depicted is pretty scaled down. Years go by in a matter of seconds. By magnifying the timeline to focus on day/night, it would make simple things like units not sleeping, never getting into a house etc more noticeable and kinda silly. Right now, these things are not really that relevant as gameplay focuses on years and decades.