Nescio Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 It would be really great if those three could be finished and subsequently included in A23. Having them in underused mods is nice and all, but they really deserve a much wider public. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
av93 Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 Always typing wrong. I was just only referring to kushites. I'm sure that I had a better level of English when I was in highschool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balduin Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 @Nescio I agree with you that mods deserve a much wider public. This could be done by making it easier to install mods into the game. For example, by having mod manager which can download and install mods with a single click. However, I disagree with you about including all those civilizations into the main mod. Mods are a good way extend the main game or introduce completely new ideas. The [Pony Ascendant](http://www.moddb.com/mods/0-ad-ponies-ascendant) mod by LoordGood is a good example for such a mod. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 14 hours ago, balduin said: @Nescio I agree with you that mods deserve a much wider public. This could be done by making it easier to install mods into the game. For example, by having mod manager which can download and install mods with a single click. However, I disagree with you about including all those civilizations into the main mod. Mods are a good way extend the main game or introduce completely new ideas. The [Pony Ascendant](http://www.moddb.com/mods/0-ad-ponies-ascendant) mod by LoordGood is a good example for such a mod. Granted, but I think the Han would be a great addition to the main game since they were such a huge faction in the time period. Smaller civs like Thebans, maybe leave for mods. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 4 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: Granted, but I think the Han would be a great addition to the main game since they were such a huge faction in the time period. Smaller civs like Thebans, maybe leave for mods. Also with the Han you potentially entice a bigger market for the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balduin Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Does anybody know how many mods are implementing the Kushites right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 32 minutes ago, balduin said: Does anybody know how many mods are implementing the Kushites right now? I'd say at least three. Hannibal's + 0adMods + DE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balduin Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 @stanislas69 I am not sure if I understood your references: Hannibal -> Vox Populi 0adMods -> ?? DE -> Delenda Est Could you please clarify what you mean by 0adMods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, balduin said: @stanislas69 I am not sure if I understood your references: Hannibal -> Vox Populi 0adMods -> ?? DE -> Delenda Est Could you please clarify what you mean by 0adMods? There is a kushites repository here -> https://github.com/0ADMods/kushites That's the most complete kushite mod yet, it has the latest features. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 15 hours ago, stanislas69 said: There is a kushites repository here -> https://github.com/0ADMods/kushites That's the most complete kushite mod yet, it has the latest features. It's great to see everything Kushite is being concentrated in a single location! Also, one faction, one mod is helpful if it is decided to incorporate them into another mod (or 0 A.D.'s main distribution). Is there also a Han repository? And another for the Xiongnu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niektb Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Nescio said: Is there also a Han repository? And another for the Xiongnu? That's included in the Terra Magna repository 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted January 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) The Kingdom of Kush, Random Things I still have a few random references that didn't fit well with the previous posts or were sourced after posting, but still deserve honourable mention: Spoiler Firstly, Nuba Wrestling: A suggestion for renaming the fortress tech: - "Will to Fight": inspire your troops with higher pay. All soldiers + 25% attack becomes: - "Nuba Wrestling": train your troops in the art of wrestling. All soldiers +25% attack Spoiler "Nuba fighting is done by the Nuba peoples in the Nuba Mountains of South Kordofan state, in northern Sudan. It involves both stick fighting and wrestling. The goal of Nuba wrestling is to slam the opponent to the ground. Wrestling is relatively recreational, and serious injuries are rare.[contradictory] Nuba wrestling has no pinning and no submissions. Although there are strikes, these are essentially part of the grappling; in other words, this is not a boxing system, as is, for example, Hausadambe. Therefore, Nuba wrestling is best viewed as a system of standing grappling, historically practiced naked, but in towns, today practiced in T-shirts and shorts. Nuba stick fighting essentially mimics the movements of fighting with spear and shield. Little armor is worn, so injuries can be severe. Training for both wrestling and stick fighting includes practicing under the supervision of former champions, performing athletic dances, learning traditional songs, and drinking lots of milk while avoiding promiscuity and beer." -Wikipedia- "During the period of the New Kingdom (1550-1070 BC), additional Egyptian artwork (often on friezes), depicted Egyptian and Nubian wrestlers competing. Carroll notes striking similarities between these ancient depictions and those of the modern Nuba wrestlers.[12] On the 406 wrestling pairs found in the Middle Kingdom tombs at Beni Hasan in the Nile valley, nearly all of the techniques seen in modern freestyle wrestling could be found." -Wikipedia- Ancient Egyptian depictions of "Nubian" and Egyptian wrestlers: Contemporary Nuba: The Royal palace at Wad Ben Naqa, with a concise explanation: An actual dedicated storehouse from Sanam: Mapped ruins on the northern part of the Royal City in Meroë: Ruins of Hamadab, outlines: Hamadab reconstruction: Inside the massive temple of Taharqa in Kawa, during excavations. It was subsequently reburied under sand, where it still sits today. Only the top row of blocks are sometimes visible The Amun temple in Naqa: Other ruins in Naqa: Naqa Lion statues: A piece of fabric. Organic materials deteriorate much faster than inorganic materials, especially within the rain-belt in Sudan. Therefore wood, leather and fabrics are very rare finds.. Export of exotic animals from Kush to Egypt, including a lion, an elephant, an antelope and a giraffe, as well as cattle: A clear depiction that the composite bow was also used. These lions are a real nuisance to the enemies of Kush: Egyptian carving of a Kushite captive: Stele of Amanishakheto: Meroitic script, phonetic values: My name in Meroitic script The Pyramids of Nuri, Jebel Barkal and Meroë: War games miniatures: Edited January 22, 2018 by Sundiata 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted January 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) The latest list of sources For those who wish read up some more. Or a lot more... A list of sources I've been working with for the past few months. I'll begin with one of the most valuable: 4 volumes, c. 1400 pages of text: Fontes Historiae Nubiorum: dealing with the written history of Kush, translations of countless Kushite stelae as well as discussions of Greek and Latin texts mentioning Kush (usually as aethiopia). Among it's writers, one of the world's most respected authorities on Kush, László Török. The texts were compiled in 1994, so it's a little outdated, which is something to keep in mind (many of the other sources I used are post-2010 research, and a lot of new things have come to light in the 23 years since its publication). https://digitalt.uib.no/handle/1956.2/3083#preview (Fontes Historiae Nubiorum) The rest: http://www.mfa.org/search?search_api_views_fulltext=MEROITIC http://www.archaeology.wiki/blog/2016/02/01/sudan-archaeology-greco-roman-perspective-part-2/ http://www.earlheinrich.com/Ancient Nubia/_Private/FHN Harsiyotef.pdf http://artefacts.mom.fr/Publis/Welsby_2005.pdf http://archiv.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/propylaeumdok/2883/1/Lohwasser_Tracks_in_the_Bayuda_desert_2013.pdf https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/search/index?utf8=✓&keywords=lepsius+aethiopen# http://www.jebelbarkal.org/frames/B200300.pdf http://www.jebelbarkal.org/frames/B500NapMer.pdf http://www.jebelbarkal.org/frames/B500Piankhyreliefs.pdf http://www.jebelbarkal.org/frames/B560561.pdf http://www.jebelbarkal.org/frames/B600.pdf http://www.jebelbarkal.org/frames/B700.pdf http://www.jebelbarkal.org/frames/B800.pdf http://www.jebelbarkal.org/frames/B1100.pdf http://www.jebelbarkal.org/frames/B1200.pdf http://www.jebelbarkal.org/frames/VisGuide.pdf https://archive.org/details/merocityofethiop00gars http://www.qsap.org.qa/images/doc/a-short-guide-to-the-ancient-site-of-naga.pdf http://www.qsap.org.qa/images/doc/Hamadab_en_2017.pdf http://www.qsap.org.qa/images/doc/kawa_qsap_english_booklet.pdf http://www.qsap.org.qa/images/doc/wadi-guide-english.pdf https://www.academia.edu/33697681/Mighty_Kingdoms_and_their_Forts._The_Role_of_Fortified_Sites_in_the_Fall_of_Meroe_and_Rise_of_Medieval_Realms_in_Upper_Nubia https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262141539_L'ile_de_Sai_dans_le_Royaume_de_Meroe https://issuu.com/sudarchrs/docs/s_n12_grzymski http://sfdas.com/IMG/pdf/rck_4_-_dunham_d._royal_tombs_at_meroe_and_barkal.pdf http://www.earlheinrich.com/Ancient Nubia/_Private/Welsby ch 9.pdf https://www.academia.edu/16628673/B_100_A_Little_Known_Palace_at_Jebel_Barkal https://www.academia.edu/19835739/Complex_M243-256_at_Meroe http://sfdas.com/IMG/pdf/rck_3_-_chapman_s._e._and_dunham_d._decorated_chapels_of_the_meroitic_pyramids_at_meroe_and_barkal.pdf http://sfdas.com/publications/ouvrages-specialises-en-ligne-ouvrages/article/rck?lang=en http://sfdas.com/IMG/pdf/livretmuse_etenglight.pdf https://www.kerma.ch/documents/Publications_PDF/Cinq_conferences.pdf http://en.wadi-abu-dom.de https://digitalt.uib.no/bitstream/handle/1956.2/3083/FHN I copy.pdf?sequence=1 https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/nubia1.asp https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-01482774 http://www.meroiticnewsletter.org/MeroNews25h.pdf (EL HOBAGI) http://www.meroiticnewsletter.org https://issuu.com/sudarchrs/docs/s_n10_wilkins http://i-cias.com/e.o/nubia_rl_gods.htm https://www3.nd.edu/~asimonet/PUBLICATIONS/Buzon_et_al_2016_Amer_Anthro.pdf http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/3A*.html http://naga-project.com/en/ http://naga-project.com/wp-content/uploads/SMÄK_Naga_Guide_en.pdf http://naga-project.com/wp-content/uploads/Wildung_Naga_in_JPK_37.pdf http://journals.openedition.org/cel/383 SEBIUMEKER STATUE 3D https://sketchfab.com/models/be716b3f76044cdc8fb6c0fb1fc30a13 SPHINX OF SENKAMANISKEN 3D https://sketchfab.com/models/76766c7a1a9c4182b569a1b81340ca2b GRANITE STATUE OF AMUN PROTECTING TAHARQA 3D https://sketchfab.com/models/1d414e4b273d47d6a0cb4e5ce2bc8b29 Edited January 23, 2018 by Sundiata 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted January 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) The Kingdom of Kush: names and terminology: A complete list of Napatan words for every structure and unit @elexis, @stanislas69, @wowgetoffyourcellphone, @Hannibal_Barca The Meroitic language remains barely understood, but luckily for us, the Egyptian dialect, known as Napatan was used widely until the 3d century BC, and is well understood. Fontes Historiae Nubiorum is an extensive collection of translations of Kushite texts, as well as a discussion of Greek and Latin texts mentioning Kush. The fourth volume contains a selected list of (Napatan) Egyptian words used in the various texts, and provides us with all the names and terminology we need. I made a selection of words potentially relevant to 0AD, suggestions are welcome (try to to go through the original texts in the first 2 volumes to understand the context within which these words are used). One hiccup is that it's all written in phonetics, and I have no easy way of writing phonetics (or copy-pasting from the scanned source) at the moment. So it's just bare bone letters, without the extra symbols, making proper pronunciation very difficult. The fact that vowels were largely ignored by Kushites makes pronunciation even more difficult. If somebody feels compelled to redo this list with all the correct phonetic values, I'd be eternally grateful. A few examples on how some of these words are popularly pronounced today: T3 sti : Ta Seti (land of the bow) Nhsyw: Nehesi (nubians) Mdw-Ntr: Medu Neter (god's words, hieroglyphs) Pdty : Pitati (archers) Npt : Napata There are a few Meroitic titles included, and a single semitic loanword for camel, used in the ancient Egyptian language. I tried my best to use the most appropriate words and combination of words available, but I'm not a linguist, and mistakes are very possible. The following list contains the generic name, followed by the indigenous one, followed by the literal translation for every term: Structures: Barracks : pr-ms’yw (house of soldiers) Blacksmith : hmw h’y n r3-‘ (weapon smith) Civil Centre : Pr-nsw (palace, royal residence) Corral : ihy (stall) Defense Tower : tsmt ‘3 (great battlement) Dock : Mryt (harbour) Farmstead : snwt (granary) Field : sht (field, countryside) Fortress : Htm (fortress, stronghold) House : Pr (house) Market : Pr-sbt (house of exchange) Outpost : trtr (counterwork) Pyramid large : mr ‘3 (great pyramid) Pyramid small : mr (pyramid) Sentry Tower : tsmt (battlement) Storehouse : wd3t (storehouse) Temple Amun : Pr-‘Imn (house of Amun) Temple Apedemak: Pr-‘Iprmk (house of Apedemak) Wall Gate : ’ryt (gate, door) Wall : sbty (wall, fortress, stronghold) Wall Tower : s3wt (battlement, wall) Wonder : Mnw nht (mighty monument) Units: Camel javelinist : nhw Bulahau gml (auxiliary Blemmye camel) Catafalque: Wtn n ‘Ist (barque of Isis) Cavalry javelinist : iry hr ssmwt (companion on horseback) Cavalry Spearman : Htr (cavalry) Champion Cavalry : Htr Ms’ n mh-ib (elite cavalry) Champion Elephant : Abore ‘h3 (war elephant) Champion Infantry Archer : Hry pdty (captain of archers) Champion Infantry Amun : rs ‘Imn (guardian of Amun) Champion Infantry Apedemak : rs ‘Iprmk (guardian of Apedemak) Hero Amanirenas : Amnirense qore li kdwe li (Amanirenas, qore and kandake) Hero Arakamani : Qore ‘Irk.‘Imn (King Arakamani) Hero Nastasen : Nist3sne hwy pdt psdt (Nastasen, he who smites the nine bows) Infantry Archer : pdty Nhsyw (Nubian archer) Infantry Clubman : nhw noba (nuba auxiliary warrior) Infantry Merc Javelinist : nhw ‘h3w noba (nuba auxiliary missile warrior) Inantry Pikeman : si3wrd (mutilators) Infantry Spearman : iry-rdwy Nhsyw (Nubian footman) Infantry Swordsman : knw hps (khopesh soldier) Siege Tower : iwn n ms (movable tower/siege tower, also translated as battering-ram) Ship bireme : shry (ship) Ship fishing : Wh’-rmw (fisherman) Ship merchant : D3y sbt (river-boat of exange) Ship trireme : shry ‘3 (great ship) Female Citizen : shmt (woman) Support Healer : w’b nsw (royal priest) Support Trader : rmt sbt (man of exchange) Hero Harsiotef : Harsiotef Kanakht Khaemnepet (Harsiotef the Mighty Bull appears in Napata) (I'll bring this up tomorrow) For technologies, take a look at the first section in selected Egyptian words in the spoiler: "overseers". I think this is what should make the Amun temple so special... e.g.: Imry-r snwt : overseer of a granary (+...% farming rate) Imy-r w’bw : overseer of Waab-priests (healers ...% healing rate) Imy-r htm : overseer of a fortress (increase armour level of fortress by ... levels) Imy-r kt : overseer of works (+ ...% general gathering rate) ... "Imy-r..." could be used in combination with other words to make a satisfactory selection of technologies, such as "Imy-r sd" (overseer of taxation): +...% income from international trade. There's a potential gold mine of ideas in the following list of words. Selected Napatan Egyptian words recorded in Kush: Spoiler Overseers: - Imy-r : overseer - Imy-r w’bw : overseer of Waab-priests - Imy-r s nm hwt-ntr : overseer of every man of the temple complex - Imy-r ms’ : overseer of troop, general - Imy-r md3t : overseer of documents - Imy-r3 –pr : overseer of a temple - Imy-r hsiw : overseer of singers - Imy-r htm : overseer of a fortress - Imy-r sd3wtyw n pr-nsw : overseer of seals of the king’s estate - Imy-r snwt : overseer of a granary - Imy-r kdw : overseer of builders - Imy-r kt : overseer of works Other titles: - W’b nsw : royal priest - Iry-p’t : hereditary prince - Iry-‘ : record keeper - Hry : overlord, master, lord - Shn : command, general - T3z, Tsy : commander - Imy-r3: general - Hry pyt : captain of archers - Hry hrp nfrw : commander in chief of cavalry - Mr ssmwt : cavalry general - P3 tsy3 n p3 mw: lord of the water, officer of the fleet [?] - Mr ms’ n p3 mw: general of the water - Wr : chief, chieftain Meroitic titles: - Qore : ruler - Arbetke : corn-measurer - Kdke, ktke (kandake, candace): queen, king’s sister - Arbetke : corn-measurer - Pelmos : strategus, district comissioner - Pelmos adblise : strategus of the land - Pelmos atolise : startegus of the water - Peseto, pesto : king’s son, governor Military: - Knw : soldier, brave fighter, war horse - Tsew : band, unit - D3m : recruit - Ms’, ms’yw : army, force, soldiers, troops - Pdty : bowman, archer - Stt : archer - Iry-rdwy : footman - Iry : companion - Nhw : auxiliaries - Htr : horse, cavalry - Tnt-htr : chariotry - Wrryt : chariot - Nb hps : lord of the khopesh - Ms’ n mh-ib : elite troops - Wpwti : messenger, envoy - Rs : guardian - Si3wrd : mutilators - Rd, rt : agent - Skd : sailor - iwn n ms: movable tower/siege tower - H3’’ : catapult Civilians: - Kiry : worker - K3ry : gardener - ‘hwty : cultivator - Iswt : gang of workmen - Hmw : craftsman - Wr hmw : master craftsman - Hmw nbw : goldsmith - Mniw : herdsman, herder - Sk3 : plower - Wh’-rmw : fisherman - Shmt : woman - Rmt : man - Niwtyw : townsmen - Grgw : hunter - Sri : child Enemies: - H3ty sbiw : leader or rebels - Brw, hyr : enemy,oponent, rebel - Bds : rebel - Bst : rebellion - Hfty, hft : enemy oponent - Snti : insurgent - Hnr : prisoner - Skr : prisoner Military Structures: - Htm : fortress, stronghold - S3wt : battlement, wall - Sin : mudbank - Tsmt : battlement - Trry : counter-wall - Trtr : counter-work - Trryt : embankment - Sbty, sbtt : wall, fortress, stronghold - Inb: wall - Inhy3 : enclosure - ‘Ryt : gate, door Non-military structures: - Pr : house - ‘Wi : house - Mr : pyramid - Is : tomb - ‘h, ‘ht, ‘t : palace, royal residence - Pr-‘3 : palace, royal residence, great house - Pr-nsw : palace, royal residence - Hwt-ntr : temple complex, temple compound - Pr-hd : treasury - R3-pr, irpy, rpy, rpy3 : temple, sanctuary - Pr-‘Imn : House of Amun - Pr- ‘Iprmk : House of Apedemak - Hm : immage, statue - Tit, twt, twtw : image, statue - ‘t-hnkt : beer-hall - Wd3t : storehouse - Wd3 : magazine, storehouse - Sn’ : storehouse - Ihy : stall - Ih : stable - Snwt : granary - Wd3 : barn - Snwyw : court - Knbe : court - Mnw : monument - Hw : ruin - Mn, mtn, mtnw : road, avenue - Sht : field, countryside - Dmi, d3y, tyme : town, harbour - Mryt : harbour Material: - Sny : tree - Snwt : palm grove - Kwk: fruit of Dom-palm - Bnr: date palm - Sndt : acacia - Hbn : Ebony - Nht : sycamore - ‘s : cedar - mnw : grove - St3w : stone, quarry - D’m : gold - Nbw : gold - Hd: silver/money/livestock - Hmt : copper - Db3t : brick - P3kt : fine linen - Ssr-nsw : royal linen - Sdb : garment - 3by : panther skin - mht : feather - 3bw : ivory - Irtt : milk - Iwf : meat - It : barley - Ikn : hoe - Nmt : chopping block - Ikmw : shield - H’y n r3-‘ : weapon - Pdt : bow - Ssr : arrow - ‘h3w : missile, arrow - inr : stone missile Animals: - Dybn : animal, domestic animal - Smsm, ssmt : horse - T3y : stallion - Tsm : dog - ‘wt : small cattle, sheep and goat - ‘nh : goat - ‘3 : donkey - 3pd : bird, fowl - Sr : giraffe - Rmw : fish - K3 : ox, bull - Hrp, i3dt, iht, hd, tp-i3w : cattle, livestock - Abore (meroitic): elephant - Gm(w)l (semitic loanword) : camel Boats: - Shry : boat, ship, fleet - ‘h’ : boat, ship, fleet - d3y : river boat - Mhn : ferry - Wtn, wi3 : barque Agression: - H3k : capture, plunder - H3t : advance - Sm3, sm3n : slaughter, massacre, blood bath, kill, slay - H3yt : bloodbath, slaughter - Dwn : drive off - Hfs : repel, hinder - Knkn : fight - Tp-rd n ‘h3 : plan of attack - Gw3 : besiege, close in on - Hd, ph : attack - Wdyt : campaign - Pg3 : battlefield - Hr-‘h3 : battlefield - Hdb : kill - Phrr : run - W’r : flee, withdraw - 3’bt : suppression - ‘h3 : battle, war, attack Other terms: - ‘h, hrwt : festival, feast - sd: taxation - sntr : incence, burn incence, cense - sbt : exchange - mdt : affair, matter, business, deed - d3d3t, d3d3 : council - dw3 : worship, adore - drp : sacrifice - 3srw : burnt offering - smnh : embellish, beautify - s’s3 : multiply - hk3et : measure - h’py : inundation - ntr : god - mdw-ntr: god’s word - fk3 : reward, bribe - wsr : strong - wsryt : mighty, powerful, strong - nht : might, mighty deed, victory, powerful - T3 sti : bow-land - Nhsyw : Nubians - Nbew (demotic) : Nubians - Blhlm (demotic) : Blemmye - Bulahau : Blemmye - i’i : irrigate - k3t : work, task, workmanship - kd : construction, build, rebuild - hr ssmwt : on horseback - B-r-w3-t : Barawe, Meroë - Bedewi, Bedewete (meroitic) : Meroë - Npt : Napata - Nptete (meroitic) : Napata - Ihy3 : wealth - Wtn n ‘Ist : barque of Isis Edited January 26, 2018 by Sundiata 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Do you have good recording equipment ? Kushites could maybe have your voice. About phonetics you can find the chars online and just edit your post by copy pasting those. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted January 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 Just now, stanislas69 said: Do you have good recording equipment ? Kushites could maybe have your voice. Hahahaha, that would be such an honour, lol! Actually I do have decent equipment, I just haven't had the time to play around with it in the past year... But I'd need some pretty clear instructions on what you need. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skhorn Posted January 26, 2018 Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Sundiata said: Hahahaha, that would be such an honour, lol! Actually I do have decent equipment, I just haven't had the time to play around with it in the past year... But I'd need some pretty clear instructions on what you need. Guess this is https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Audio_Voice_List Don't know if this thread is relevant too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackyserious Posted January 26, 2018 Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 2 hours ago, stanislas69 said: Do you have good recording equipment ? Kushites could maybe have your voice. About phonetics you can find the chars online and just edit your post by copy pasting those. This would be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted January 27, 2018 Report Share Posted January 27, 2018 On 26/01/2018 at 1:03 AM, Sundiata said: Hahahaha, that would be such an honour, lol! Actually I do have decent equipment, I just haven't had the time to play around with it in the past year... But I'd need some pretty clear instructions on what you need. @Itms might have some tips to set you up. If you have a female friend that would like to do the female voices that would be perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 I found this https://seetobehumanityearth.wordpress.com/tag/silk-road/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 http://medievalpoc.tumblr.com/search/Hellenistic I'm not sure if they are Kushite or from East Africa. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 On 23/01/2018 at 1:32 AM, Sundiata said: For those who wish read up some more. Or a lot more... A list of sources I've been working with for the past few months. I'll begin with one of the most valuable: 4 volumes, c. 1400 pages of text: Fontes Historiae Nubiorum: dealing with the written history of Kush, translations of countless Kushite stelae as well as discussions of Greek and Latin texts mentioning Kush (usually as aethiopia). Among it's writers, one of the world's most respected authorities on Kush, László Török. The texts were compiled in 1994, so it's a little outdated, which is something to keep in mind (many of the other sources I used are post-2010 research, and a lot of new things have come to light in the 23 years since its publication). This is not just good, interesting, and useful, it's real quality. I'm looking forward to the pdf you announced earlier 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted February 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) Pre-Colonial African Cavalry Traditions Super Illustrated When I was a lot younger, I came across 2 images of African pre-colonial heavy cavalry, which absolutely fascinated me. At the time I had never seen African cavalry, let alone heavy cavalry. In those early days of internet, it was very difficult to figure out where these images came from, or what exactly they were depicting. Luckily, times have changed, and we now know a lot more about these images, as well as the much broader context of ancient African cavalry traditions. Even more interesting for us, it has become apparent to me that the earliest diffusion of horses and cavalry culture into Central- and West-Africa came from none other than Kush and its periphery, which makes the study of African cavalry traditions all the more interesting from a Kushite perspective. Quilted cotton for horse and rider, seen on this cavalry man from the Kingdom of Baguirmi (Chad), once part of the great Kanem-Bornu Empire (neighbouring Sudan). The riders often wear a leather or iron/steel cuirass underneath the cotton armour. This 19th century rider is wearing a quilted cotton skullcap... This can not be unseen... Neither can his double tipped spear. These are the cataphracts of ancient Africa: Imagine my elation when I stumbled across this exact type of armour in a basement exhibition on African history in the British Museum, by chance... They're even more imposing in real life! Those metal cuirasses were impressive, and were said to be able stop the ball of a musket. Chainmail was also widespread. Mounted body guard of the Sheik of Bornu, in full chainmail. Underneath his turban, he has a leather reinforced cap, made up of thick bands tied together at the top with those rectangular leather bits. Also, that armour piercing spear seems unpleasant... Studying the similarities between ancient Kushite cavalry and later medieval cavalry traditions is made difficult because of the spread of Arab and Berber cavalry customs to the Sub-Saharan regions in later periods, which has totally overshadowed the earlier Sub-Saharan horse periods from an academic perspective. Most people including academics don't know that horses were being bred in Sudan as early 1500BC, which makes an accurate assessment of the origins of African cavalry traditions nearly impossible in the popular academic world. I hope that my research in this thread (including the reliefs and graffito depicting horses, written histories mentioning cavalry, and the burial of entire horses and their equipment in some of the royal tombs) goes some way to addressing this issue. Experts in the field have long written about the importance of horses, cavalry and chariotry in ancient Kush, but popular attitudes are sometimes hard to change. Following points are interesting: the existence of an ancient and large indigenous African horse-breed, known as the Dongolawi, which is markedly different from Arab or Barb horses, originated in Sudan and fits ancient descriptions. It predates the Arab and Barb horses in Africa, and was bred and exported widely on a large scale during antiquity. It is now found all across the Sudanic belt (from Sudan to Senegal), but has been interbred with foreign horse-breeds. Pure Dongolawi are rare, but still widespread. The widespread similarities in Sub-Saharan horse-acutrements, including decorated bands of leather and/or cloth and metal across the chest and backside, metal bells, saddle-types, types of halter and types of stirrups and even the use of raised chamfrons as well as the use of semi-cercular cheek-guards is noteworthy. Arab, Berber and Sub-Saharan cavalry traditions share certain commonalities, but are also very distinct from each other. Arabised African populations use Arab cavalry traditions. Berbers cavalry is part of the Numidian and even Roman heritage mixed in with Arab and Sub-Saharan influences. I believe Sub-Saharan cavalry traditions primarily come from a third "mystery" source: Kush... Especially along the Sudanic belt, a vast biotope stretching from the savannahs of Sudan to Senegal, culture, people, religions and technology moved relatively freely. Many similarities can be found among the otherwise very diverse people of this vast region, including similar cavalry traditions. It is no coincidence that some of Africa's largest empires were situated along this biotope, like the Mali Empire, the Songhai Empire, Kanem-Bornu, the Hausa city states and the Sokoto Caliphate. Quilted cotton armour, which is first recorded in the Nile Valley in antiquity, was used by Kushites to cover horse and rider. This is a quintessentially African type of armour that was used in Sudan during the BC-era, and spread to Central- and West-Africa where it is used to this very day (mostly ceremonial). This specific type of armour is so wide-spread, that an ancient point of dissemination is almost unquestionable. It is used in countries from Sudan to Mali, including Chad, Niger, Nigeria, Cameroon, Burkina Faso, Togo... Quilted cotton was later spread in the Middle East by the Arabs through Egyptian influence and even appears in medieval Europe. In the book "On the Erythraean Sea", the Greek historian Agatharchides, relating to Ptolemy II Nubian campaign, refers to a native type of felt armour for horse and rider that covers the whole body except for the eyes: For the war against the Aithiopians Ptolemy recruited 500 cavalrymen from Greece. To those who were to fight in the front ranks and to be the vanguard - they were a hundred in number - he assigned the following form of equipment. For he distributed to them and their horses garments of felt (stolas piletas), which those of that country (hoi kata ten choran; "the natives of the country" in Burstein) call kasas, that conceal the whole body except for the eyes. This is almost definitely Kushite quilted cotton. "that conceal the whole body except for the eyes"... I think I might know exactly what type of armour it was, and why it was so important. It was used by Kushites as an effective protection against arrows, which made it important for Ptolemies in their campaign against the archery heavy Kushite army. Here's an example of a 19th century Sudanese quilted cotton armour for horse and rider, covering the whole body except for the eyes, almost the same as the one used by the horsemen of Baguirmi and fitting ancient descriptions: An ancient Kushite example?: The iron cuirass worn underneath the quilted cotton armour of the riders of Baguirmi: Anyway, enough talk from me, enjoy this very large collection of Pre-Colonial African cavalry illustrations: Pre-Colonial African Cavalry in etchings and drawings: Spoiler 19th century Kanem Bornu warriors Bornu warriors Lovely... Mossi cavalry doing some slave-raiding in Burkina Faso/Northern Ghana. The Mossi King and his horsemen Mahdists in Sudan Sudanese Mahdist warrior. That linen wrap-around looks very similar to our Kushite linen corselets Sudanese Mahdist warriors during a cavalry charge into musket fire. If you look closely, these 19th century warriors are wearing linen "corselets" remarkably similar to the ancient Nile Valley equivalent. Ethiopian cavalry The Ethiopian Emperor Tewodross II fought a rather disastrous war against the British, who employed Indian war-elephants and heavy artillery. The British didn't stick around though. Menelik II had consolidated power as quickly as Tewodros II had been defeated. Emperor Menelik II, sovereign of the Abyssinian Empire of Ethiopia, marching with an immense army of more than a hundred thousand men, and almost 9000 horses towards Adwa, to face an Italian force of more than 10.000 Italians and tens of thousands of native levies including Eritrean Ascari and Oromo horsemen, in 1896. The Battle of Adwa was the largest single defeat of a modern European force in African history and it was decisive. The Italian army was completely decimated, and the Italians were forced to recognise Ethiopian sovereignty. As the only African nation to successfully resist European colonialism, Ethiopia became a symbol of hope and resistance for African liberation struggles around the world. Menelik II also started construction on Ethiopia's first rail-way from Addis Ababa to Djibouti. Ras Makonnen, brother of Emperor Menelik II and father of Emperor Haile Selassie I, was one of the main commanders at the battle of Adwa Emperor Menelik II and Ras Makonnen Abyssinian warriors, Ethiopia Early Kanem Bornu A king's favourite wife.. Heavy cavalry and infantry-man from the Sudanese Mahdist revolution in the late 19th century. These are some of the last real African knights to ride in to battle in full chain mail. Chainmail causes bullets to fragment in to splinters (very ugly wounds), so that didn't work out too well for them... Cavalry from the Sudanese Sultanate of Sennar alongside a British merchant. The Sultanate of Sennar was one of the last independent Sudanese states, before its assimilation in to the Ottoman Empire. The Nobatian King Silko (Nubia, Sudan), alongside a Blemmye archer and a Roman frontier guard. After the central authority of Meroë started weakening, the Romans "invited" the Noba (semi-nomadic Western Desert dwellers) to settle Lower Nubia, as Roman foederati to protect the Roman frontier in Southern Egypt. Many aspects of Nobatian culture was directly inherited from their earlier Meroitic overlords. Typical Sudanic quilted cotton on the African savannahs The Oba of Benin meets with Portuguese traders. The Oba of Benin. Benin was an ancient and powerful city state in the Southern Nigerian rainforest, famous for it's brass-cast heads of royals, known as the Benin Bronzes. They were fond of leopards... A commander in the army of the Ashanti empire, one of the most powerful military forces in Africa at the dawn of colonialism (modern day Ghana), second only to that of the Abyssinian Empire (Ethiopia). The use of massed musketry and advanced military tactics and strategy made Ashanti a formidable opponent to European colonisers, resulting in no less than 4 Anglo-Ashanti wars spread over almost a 100 years of fighting before the British managed to subdue them. Ashanti are not known today for their horses, but used to maintain a royal cavalry force at the capital city of Kumasi. Tse Tse flies wiped out the horses in the 18th century... Another Ashanti commander, wearing the batakari war-smock and wearing a ram-horn headdress with feathers still worn by the right hand of the Akan kings today. Senegalese horseman, 1780's From the Faras cathedral in Nubia, Sudan, Makurian period. Ethiopian cavalry in medieval Christian Ethiopian church paintings: Saint George slaying the dragon Pre-Colonial African Cavalry in Pictures: Spoiler Sudanese quilted cotton in the field. The rider on the right is wearing a heavy chain-mail armour. Notice the hundred or so cavalry men lined in the distance behind this pair. Rider from Sudan Sultan of Dar Masalit, Sudan Gift from the Sultan of Darfur, Sudan, to the British governor. Quite incredibly, both of the men in this picture are wearing wrapped linen corselets, seemingly identical to the ancient type worn by Kushites and Egyptians! Rider from Darfur, Sudan Nupe rider, from Bida, Nigeria Flaps open for ventilation? Cavalry of the Kingdom of Bamun, at the ancient capital of Fumban, Cameroon Riders in front of the palace at Fumban Mundang horsemen Dikwa horseman. Head is covered with chainmail. I suspect there's an entire armour underneath all that fabric. A Majestic example of the Dongolawi horse-breed! A strong and tall horse with a relatively short back and a concave head. Mounted soldiers from Dikwa wearing a chain mail vest Another chainmail vest and chainmail cap Hausa horseman Nupe, bida Cameroon Togo Chad The Shehu, ruler of the Dikwa emirate (a successor to the Bornu Empire) showing off. Typical Touareg cavalryman with hide-shield The Hausa people from Northern Nigeria/Niger/Chad have some of the strongest cavalry traditions on the continent. Dahomey, Togo. The Kingdom of Dahomey was a militaristic power on the West African coast, fighting wars against the much larger Ashanti Empire, Oyo Empire and the French. They're famous for an all female Amazon unit, numbering up to 3000 fighting women! Ethiopian warrior with typical rhino hide shield Ethiopian noble Ras Mulugeta, Ethiopian minister of War Emperor Menelik II himself Emperor Haile Selassie I Northern Ghana A Hausa chief in Accra, Ghana Northern Ghana King of Tolon and Kasuli" Nigeria Contemporary African Cavalry Traditions: Spoiler These 20th century dudes are wearing chain mail like it ain't nothing but a thing... Hausa are still a very prolific cavalry culture today. Highly decorated horses are a mark of distinction for nobility, and they are clearly very proud of their horses. Fulani horsemen Tiken Jah Fakoly Ethiopian horse-culture Somewhere in West-Africa. This dude looks like he has a bunch of interesting stories to tell... Chad Chad, Fulani horse racing without saddles! Armed rangers in a wild-life reserve in Chad Mahdist armour for cavalry men, Sudan: Spoiler Just a few more 19th century Sudanese armours worn by Mahdist heavy cavalry. Strong Ottoman and Khedive influence is noticeable in the helmets. Edited February 18, 2018 by Sundiata 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted February 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2018 For those of you who liked the previous post on Pre-Colonial African Cavalry traditions, and those of you who haven't gone through the images yet: The post has been extensively updated with a ton of new images and more information. It is now divided in 4 sections: Pre-Colonial African Cavalry in etchings and drawings Pre-Colonial African Cavalry in Pictures Contemporary African Cavalry Traditions Mahdist armour for cavalry men, Sudan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordGood Posted February 16, 2018 Report Share Posted February 16, 2018 warm up sketch gone too far lol. I think my learning Krita is going fairly well! might as well throw this here 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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