RANDOM MAPS: Suggestions, Bug reports and Ideas about random maps here.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

On 12/09/2022 at 12:11 AM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

One could reverse engineer the bug and find a way to make the map generate like the first picture every time.

But then it would be a different map, not an isthmus.  

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

On 07/05/2023 at 1:48 PM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

46	},
47	"Gaia": {
48	"tree1": "gaia/tree/fir_winter",
49	"tree2": "gaia/tree/fir_winter",
50	"tree3": "gaia/tree/temperate_winter",
51	"tree4": "gaia/tree/fir_winter",
52	"tree5": "gaia/tree/temperate_winter",
53	"fruitBush": "gaia/fauna_deer",
54	"chicken": "gaia/fauna_chicken",
55	"mainHuntableAnimal": "gaia/fauna_deer",
56	"secondaryHuntableAnimal": "gaia/fauna_deer",
57	"fish": "gaia/fish/generic",
58	"stoneLarge": "gaia/rock/polar_02",
59	"stoneSmall": "gaia/rock/alpine_small",
60	"metalLarge": "gaia/ore/polar_01",
61	"metalSmall": "gaia/ore/temperate_small"
62	},

I see that the berry spawns on gulf of bothnia frozen lake are instead deer. Was this intended? I guess it makes things seem more 'harsh' of an environment, but I would say this is holding back the multiplayer potential of the map.

I'd rather it just be berries.

It was intentional to ensure a different start to the map. Personally, I think it adds variety to make different types of maps have different starts and to make the player adapt. I won't even mention that berries in the middle of a frozen wasteland don't make any sense. Oops! I did mention it.  

[real_tabasco_sauce]

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

It was intentional to ensure a different start to the map. Personally, I think it adds variety to make different types of maps have different starts and to make the player adapt. I won't even mention that berries in the middle of a frozen wasteland don't make any sense. Oops! I did mention it.  

I was sure to use the "Cold" berries.

https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4990

Edited September 10, 2023 by real_tabasco_sauce

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Much improved migration script.

https://code.wildfiregames.com/D5129

Use radial spawning so that players may be either grouped with their team or spread out.
Use space more efficiently: larger islands, more spacious islands. Main 'continent' is located in the center.
Fix player islands merging with higher player counts (even on medium map size)
Make starting islands larger and give them wood. Reason: players should not be forced to leave their home island, but instead decide a good time to leave to fight for control over the middle.
Savannah generation gets 1 group of main huntable animal since there is little wood, giving the biome a considerable effect on gameplay, depending on the animal.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by real_tabasco_sauce

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I like it. It's not as "realistic" as the original, but what's important is that the concept is better realized from a gameplay standpoint 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

On 10/09/2023 at 2:17 PM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

K they are all fixed, as far as I can tell for a26 and a27. Since the secondary animal for savannah is an elephant, its not super great at balancing those, but it is no more than 400/500 food res difference.

 

Maybe just see if you find any issues first.balancedmapsbyBAD.zip

@andy5995 are you still heading up the git for the community maps mod? Any chance you could update it with this? It works for a26 and a27. I also asked @badosu directly on mod.io but I doubt he will respond.

Edited September 16, 2023 by real_tabasco_sauce

[andy5995]

On 16/09/2023 at 3:51 PM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

@andy5995 are you still heading up the git for the community maps mod? Any chance you could update it with this? It works for a26 and a27. I also asked @badosu directly on mod.io but I doubt he will respond.

@real_tabasco_sauceRight now I'm only reviewing pull requests (I would have replied sooner, but didn't get any email notification that you pinged me).

[real_tabasco_sauce]

2 hours ago, andy5995 said:

@real_tabasco_sauceRight now I'm only reviewing pull requests (I would have replied sooner, but didn't get any email notification that you pinged me).

Well, it all works for a26 at least. If you have time, it probably wouldn't be too hard to update. If not, I'll figure out how to send a pull request your way.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

How about instead of selecting "random" for map biomes and team placements, the users could use a checklist with something like "select all" and "deselect all" to make things quicker.

That way particular biomes and placements can be avoided, while still allowing for some surprises.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

we shouldn't sort players for circle placement in rmgen 2. Players are used to just alternating the teams in game setup to produce alternating team placement.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

I briefly put together a simple random map, a mountains version of mainland. Basically instead of the impassable cliffs, we have passable hills and mountains that don't disrupt resource placement.

I suppose it could be a landscape of mainland instead of its own map.

Edited July 26 by real_tabasco_sauce

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

8 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I briefly put together a simple random map, a mountains version of mainland. Basically instead of the impassable cliffs, we have passable hills and mountains that don't disrupt resource placement.

I suppose it could be a landscape of mainland instead of its own map.

Not bad. Maybe bigger forests though? I wish we could make terrain painting less blotchy. 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

4 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Not bad. Maybe bigger forests though? I wish we could make terrain painting less blotchy. 

These are the same forests in 1v1 mainland. For some reason the forest sizes change going from 1v1 to 4v4. I am not really a fan of how small they are in 1v1 games, which is part of the reason i don't play 1v1s much.

imo they should be the same size from 1v1 to 4v4.

[guerringuerrin]

On 07/05/2023 at 3:13 PM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Are there any other easy to fix issues people have with some random maps?

A little bit more wood on badosu mainland map would be nice. Not as much as Feldmap version, but still feels wood can be scarce at starting point. 
I think this would make more players want to use this version, which also includes fixed positions, something very interesting for TG and that could help a lot to create balanced games and deepen game strategies for certain teams.

[alre]

3 hours ago, guerringuerrin said:

A little bit more wood on badosu mainland map would be nice. Not as much as Feldmap version, but still feels wood can be scarce at starting point. 
I think this would make more players want to use this version, which also includes fixed positions, something very interesting for TG and that could help a lot to create balanced games and deepen game strategies for certain teams.

have you tried the @seeh's version?

[guerringuerrin]

@alreI didnt!

[real_tabasco_sauce]

https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/pulls/7153#issuecomment-103686

Ok, so after seeing a few games on naval maps, I realized that many naval maps and hybrid maps (land and sea, like hyrcanian shores, lake, continent) do not have enough fish to justify making fishing ships.

Take as an example Aegean Sea:

The bottom two players don't have a single fish accessible, and the top few players only have a handful, with some of those fish being close enough to the shore. In this case, players may only be able to gather 3000 food with an investment of not only as much as 500 wood (dock + boats), but also lots construction and walking time.

This is not enough fish to justify making fishing ships and it means naval gameplay is only relevant for controlling passage to the other side. It also means there is rarely any fish to kill with ships, and if there were fishing ships, they would have already gathered most of the accessible fish.

Also, if you look at lake, you would see a map that should be pretty enjoyable, but because there are such a small number of fish in the lake, the middle lake is basically just an obstruction unless you use it for transport and siege ships.

Here is Aegean sea after adding the fish:

I didn't apply the same exact change to all maps. For maps where there was a comically small amount of fish, I added plenty, but for maps like continent, I added just enough to make fishing worthwhile, but not mandatory.

Thoughts?

Edited October 29 by real_tabasco_sauce

[Gurken Khan]

42 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Thoughts?

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/pulls/7153#issuecomment-103686

Ok, so after seeing a few games on naval maps, I realized that many naval maps and hybrid maps (land and sea, like hyrcanian shores, lake, continent) do not have enough fish to justify making fishing ships.

Take as an example Aegean Sea:

The bottom two players don't have a single fish accessible, and the top few players only have a handful, with some of those fish being close enough to the shore. In this case, players may only be able to gather 3000 food with an investment of not only as much as 500 wood (dock + boats), but also lots construction and walking time.

This is not enough fish to justify making fishing ships and it means naval gameplay is only relevant for controlling passage to the other side. It also means there is rarely any fish to kill with ships, and if there were fishing ships, they would have already gathered most of the accessible fish.

Also, if you look at lake, you would see a map that should be pretty enjoyable, but because there are such a small number of fish in the lake, the middle lake is basically just an obstruction unless you use it for transport and siege ships.

Here is Aegean sea after adding the fish:

I didn't apply the same exact change to all maps. For maps where there was a comically small amount of fish, I added plenty, but for maps like continent, I added just enough to make fishing worthwhile, but not mandatory.

Thoughts?

Many maps have hunting, foraging and fishing issues.

[Lion.Kanzen]

The Sinai Peninsula would be cool.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

On 29/10/2024 at 9:39 AM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/pulls/7153#issuecomment-103686

Ok, so after seeing a few games on naval maps, I realized that many naval maps and hybrid maps (land and sea, like hyrcanian shores, lake, continent) do not have enough fish to justify making fishing ships.

Take as an example Aegean Sea:

The bottom two players don't have a single fish accessible, and the top few players only have a handful, with some of those fish being close enough to the shore. In this case, players may only be able to gather 3000 food with an investment of not only as much as 500 wood (dock + boats), but also lots construction and walking time.

This is not enough fish to justify making fishing ships and it means naval gameplay is only relevant for controlling passage to the other side. It also means there is rarely any fish to kill with ships, and if there were fishing ships, they would have already gathered most of the accessible fish.

Also, if you look at lake, you would see a map that should be pretty enjoyable, but because there are such a small number of fish in the lake, the middle lake is basically just an obstruction unless you use it for transport and siege ships.

Here is Aegean sea after adding the fish:

I didn't apply the same exact change to all maps. For maps where there was a comically small amount of fish, I added plenty, but for maps like continent, I added just enough to make fishing worthwhile, but not mandatory.

Thoughts?

@guerringuerrin  @Philip the Swaggerless @chrstgtr @roscany @ValihrAnt @BreakfastBurrito_007 @Dizaka @SaidRdz  @ffm2 @Norse_Harold @PistolPetethoughts on more fish for these water maps?

Edited November 3 by real_tabasco_sauce

[chrstgtr]

@real_tabasco_sauce

I think basically every map with water should have a bunch of fish unless there is some compelling reason not to. Compelling reasons include: (1) the water is extremely easy to defend and cannot be rushed (e.g., marsh rhinelands, which has tiny ponds that can be easily defended with a CC, towers, etc) and (2) a strategic reason why you don't want to encourage fishing (e.g., oasis, which already emphasizes control of the central water). 

Otherwise, I think fishing should be a compelling option anytime there is water. 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

"Coast Range"

players are placed between a long, crescent shaped mountain range and a long, crescent shaped coastline. The mountain range contains lots of metal and stone while the coastline has plenty of fish.

The main body of the map has hunt and some scattered stone and metal, but these are small. The mountain range has lots of metal and stone, but lacks wood.

The map also supports three placement options, which provide variety and support a wider range of strategies.

Edited November 17 by real_tabasco_sauce

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Foothills, I guess, is pretty easily tested, since you can check it out in the com mod. My 3rd map is just now ready for merging: https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/pulls/7225

It is an update to migration, with the previous version being renamed to "Land Grab". The big idea for the updated migration is flexibility.

This style of map has produced some really awesome games in high level aoe2.

With the island splitting teams and players, it is more natural to contest it. Larger islands also mean players can move to take the middle island early or focus on booming or water control and then try to take the middle to win in the long run.

The map is quite balanced, with the starting woodlines having very similar total wood count, and each player has good access to fish.

in the central island, resources can generate close to the shore, so ships may be used to deny resources.

Lastly, the map supports 3 different placement options, which have dramatic consequences for how the map may be played.

Edited Wednesday at 07:10 by real_tabasco_sauce

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

8 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

 

This already looks like a great improvement.  

Perhaps a custom setup option/toggle to give the players a free starting Dock if desired.