Genava55

At least Rome 1 was easily moddable... I prefer it than Rome 2 simply for this. I understand totally that a game could skip historical accuracy if they assume it and do not hide the inaccuracies. Amateurs are often better than the developers. Historical accuracy at the level of nitpickers is a small market.

I was sure they would do this since Three Kingdom is a romanced version... I was sure

I post here since I do not know elsewhere to do it. Are you guys interested to open a thread with bibliography and references about ancient history? Like did EB in their forum. If you are interested in it, I can open a thread in the General Discussion section and keep it updated with the proposals of the other members. Trying to make it properly classified and readable.

There is the common cliché of seeing barbarians as dirty peoples with huge beards and giant moustaches. Actually the few iconographic details found by historians and archaeologists are suggesting a lot of shaved faces and some trimmed and contoured beard and mustache. Classical literature suggests Celtic warriors were kinda some fashionista with proper hygiene, which fits well in their logic of bravado and to show off to rise in the society. Even the early Germans that were far more materially poor than the Celts in the beginning of their iron age got different traditions related to their textiles, to their hair dress, to adornments. This is an issue stressed by archaeologists, probably that most of the traditions, of the cultural habits and of the esthetics among the "Barbarians" is definitively lost because it does not stand the effect of time in most conditions. In the case of the description from classical literature you are reacting about, indeed it stresses the idea that the mustache was the norm. It comes from Caesar: The most civilized of all these nations are they who inhabit Kent, which is entirely a maritime district, nor do they differ much from the Gallic customs. Most of the inland inhabitants do not sow corn, but live on milk and flesh, and are clad with skins. All the Britons, indeed, dye themselves with wood, which occasions a bluish color, and thereby have a more terrible appearance in fight. They wear their hair long, and have every part of their body shaved except their head and upper lip. Ten and even twelve have wives common to them, and particularly brothers among brothers, and parents among their children; but if there be any issue by these wives, they are reputed to be the children of those by whom respectively each was first espoused when a virgin. Although there is a huge issue with the description of Caesar since the Britons did sow corn (another British word for wheat). Archaeologically there is no doubt about it. It falls again in the Caesarian propaganda. He wanted to conquer the Gauls and to justify this, all his work is animalizing the other Barbarians at the frontiers to show than the Gauls are less barbaric and closer to the Romans now. Suffering of the same fear of barbarians invasions. The Gallic Wars books are one of the only time the Roman accounts started to be fair and genuinely interested to understand the Gallic society because of a motive behind. The discrepancy between the Gallic quite fair account from Caesar and the classical Roman xenophobia for the Germanic and British parts is just striking in his work. Diodorus Siculus will copy the description without precising his sources and the differences between the Celts (are they Gauls or Britons? are they all the same?)

Just posting a to-do list for the future (not necessarily things urgent for the next release, could be postpone for the following one). Buildings: Updating the shields on the buildings: If you are looking for a circular thing as an asset, there is the wheel, a recurring symbol representing higher social status and mythological believes. Temples: Replacing the actual temple by more historically accurate buildings. The current temple can be slightly modified and transformed to a small feasting place if this kind of building is needed. For a new Gallic temple, @Sundiatastarted something interesting. For the Britons, maybe something inspired by Irish iron age sanctuaries (Dun Ailinne or Rathcroghan for example) or something purely British like the Heathrow, Hayling Island and Fison Way iron age sanctuaries. Taverna: Even if I like the building, I think the idea to make it an important structure of the Gauls falls in the cliché category. Feasting is an important part of the Celtic tradition, it is an institution that has huge impact on social and political processes in the society. Although it is not what everybody imagines with a small group of persons in an auberge/albergue like in the 1st movie of Lord of the Rings (The Prancing Pony). This kind of tavern could have existed but is related more to the merchants and artisans community and have little importance in the Celtic society. The game is skipping a lot of economical complexities so I do not know how this building could be include, although mods that are modifying the game to make it a city builder could use it. Monument: This is maybe the most pressing issue since it is the less accurate and the more cliché building of the Celtic factions (Stonehenge). @wowgetoffyourcellphone got an excellent idea with the Uffington White Horse for the Britons, although I am not sure if it fits well in the idea of monumentality (your opinion guys?) but clearly I think his idea should be include somehow. The other possibility for the Britons are among the sanctuaries proposed for the new temple (see above). Irish iron age buildings can be quite impressive. Bloodgate Hill Iron Age Fort can be used as an inspiration too. For the Gauls there is the Corent sanctuary made by @Stan`, maybe he wants to change to thatched roofs or wooden tiles like the fortress. No problem for me. The other possibility could be the huge sanctuary/assembly-place in Titelberg. The necropolis/death-related-votives-buildings of Acy-Romance could be an option if regrouped as successive buildings. Units: The name list of the units should be updated one day or another. The roster of the Britons and of the Gauls should be differentiated one day or another. I think we should wait what insight and design will emerge from @borg- modding and testing, with the feedback of other players. For the moment my proposals are waiting. Changing the roster is not something to do lightly. And the possible changes on the military design of the game can have huge effect in my proposals for the roster (notably about swords units). I do not know which conclusion the team reaches after the crazy flame-war discussion around Borg mod. The iron scabbard and the carnyx will probably be added soon according to @Alexandermb message. He already did a huge work on the shields, on the helmets and on the weapons. The heroes should be updated as well in the future. Currently they are some issues on the design of those.

Overrepresentation of the Corinthian helmets during the Peloponnesian war. An aquilifer with a masked helmet during the last Punic War. Vercingetorix wearing a scabbard and a helmet type from the 4th and 3rd centuries BC. The Britons nonexistent helmet on the right and a shield boss already outdated for the 1st century AD. Julius Caesar and Roman officers like Peplum movies clichés.

And the work of Mariusz Kozik is not what we could call "accurate" (although it is beautiful)

Restorers discover shield fragment is 1,700 years old, making it the oldest German panel painting https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/shield-fragment-from-ad300-is-the-oldest-german-panel-painting

Yes, I suggested already one of those Germanic cavalryman from the tribes close to the Rhine, mixing Celtic and Germanic stuff. The Bastanae and Sciri raiding the Carpatians and Black Sea region were as well similar with mixture of Celtic and Germanic weapons. So they could be represented by the same unit. Else, a Suebian mercenary with a Suebian knot. Or a Chatti warrior with short hair (Tacitus description in Germania).

https://www.huellhorst-erleben.de/die-germanische-siedlung-von-buettendorf To complement this: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/26110-civ-germans-suebians-and-goths/&do=findComment&comment=383239

Right. Like the designation of "Celt" for every barbarians (even the Cimbri were called Celts before Julius Caesar). Herodotos said that the Thracians were basically everything north of Hellas, which is very vague. The question is not the linguistics link and their common ancestry in my point. Agree. Like the Celtic civs are the Britons and the Gauls (and maybe one day the Celtiberians).

The Odrysian kingdom mostly shattered during the end of the 4th century BC and the beginning of the 3rd century BC, because of Macedonians and Gauls. The extent of the remaining kingdom is much smaller. The Sboryanovo site and Sveshtari tomb are associated with Dromichaetes and the city Helis.

Sboryanovo: https://spartokos.wordpress.com/2019/01/08/7214/

Probably Bulgarian, anyway difficult to read The Getae are indeed less hellenized but they are still close to the Black Sea with multiple Greek colonies. Sboryanovo looks quite Hellenized or very inspired from the Greeks.

Thracian houses with wooden tiles for the roof and bricks/stones for the walls and foundation. More stones for the barracks and the economic buildings as well. Fortress and other last stage buildings with a lot of Hellenistic stuff. Dacian houses with wooden tiles for the roof but with wooden planks and wattle-and-daub for the walls. Mixing round and rectangular shapes for the houses. More "barbarians" buildings as a reference for the barracks. Using the Sarmizegetusa finds as a reference (with caution although).

I was thinking as well that the Dacians were similar to the Thracians because of the Getae but it seems much more complicated, the Getae are only a small part of the Dacian kingdom and most of the archaeological finds about the Dacians are in the Western regions. I think that it should be normal that there are some similarities in their design, especially for the buildings and the architecture, but they should be two different factions. I think that someday, an intermediate step should be started with adding a few factions going slightly after the 0 AD Empire Ascendant time-span. Notably Dacians and Parthians.

Sundiata, these pictures are about Thracian or Dacian settlements?

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holsteiner_Gürtel_von_Hamburg-Altengamme https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gürtelblech

My mistake

So for the little story, this is a petroglyph from Bornholm, Denmark Sweden. Dated from around 1500 BC, in the Nordic Bronze Age. It represents clearly both a solar wheel and a time wheel (like a watch). The symbol is appearing again but slightly modified during the Early Jastorf period (600/400 BC):

Is it me or we still see the valknut in the background?

Circle symbols from petroglyphs and adornments, a few ideas and mixture

It's @wowgetoffyourcellphone that is deciding, it is his mod.