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Did you actually try A25 or are you just making assumptions?

This mod incorporates structure tree changes proposed by our historian @Thorfinn the Shallow Minded: 1. Athenians can build gym since phase 2 and train champions from it, complemented by a marathon tech to speed up champions. 2. Spartans can build Military Mess Hall in phase 2 and train the champion spearman from it. 3. Macedonians can build siege workshop in phase 2 then train siege tower and crossbow from it 4. Macedonians have access to Hetairos Companion Cavalry since phase 2. 5. Sparta and Rome get new allied slinger unit. 6. Athenians can train phase 2 champions from gym and after unlocking Iphicratean reform, marines can also be trained from the gym. 7. Romans can train Socii Slingers and Socii javelin cavalry from the new Socii Auxiliary camp, available since town phase. 8. Iberians get an unique Soliferreum elite champion javelineer unit. Newest update: compatible with A25 Git link: https://github.com/Yekaterina999/Thorfinn-Balancing-mod thorfinn.zip

I did not realise that. As you wish, I will make a mod to lower it to 15% for you to test out.

It can go like: barter 500 stone for 550 metal barter 500 metal for 550 stone and so forth. This is really glitchy. I suggest to lower the bonus to 15% and see if its still possible to exploit it.

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/Aqq3Dy

I am a bit confused by this, can't you gain resources by bartering anyway. Like bartering 100 metal for 800 wood?

The first problem is that the sword is not inherently designed to cut. Some weapons such as the gladius tend towards stabbing. On the flip-side, cutting with some spears is viable. Next off, there doesn't need to be a massive difference between the two. As I would suggest, swordsmen should move a bit faster and have more pierce armour while performing a slight bit better in fights against spearmen. Swordsmen historically were not deployed with the sole purpose of destroying siege weapons. Giving all melee units hack damage would overall be a much better way of streamlining the game.

I like the soliferrum one a lot, even though the icons and details, as they said, I don't know how it goes. and for marathon you can use the original design used in the olympics ?

first one looks to simple and the second one will not look good on a small scale. I would use theses as placeholder: https://github.com/0ad/0ad/blob/master/binaries/data/mods/public/art/textures/ui/session/portraits/technologies/accuracy_bolt.png https://github.com/0ad/0ad/blob/master/binaries/data/mods/public/art/textures/ui/session/portraits/technologies/walk.png

Thank you for the bug report. The Macedonian issue has been fixed.

failures found, it is impossible to see the tree of macedonian structures details: I liked the marathon technology, but the icon of someone running would be ideal. the iberian soliferrum with an exclusive icon, the troops that come out and the icon are completely different, the rest I like and I have to play a little more on another map, I've been in africa a lot because it's easy vs AI's.

Here you go: https://github.com/Yekaterina999/Thorfinn-balancing-mod-new @maroder

Okay! At some point I've got to stop playing with different stat values on my own and share this darn thing! This mod contains support for a deterministic damage model, via accuracy overrides and distance based exponential damage falloff. It also adds support for directional armor/resistance values. The included unit templates demonstrate the grammar for these features. (I think they also strike an interesting new balance between unit roles... but I'm biased obviously.) Let me know your thoughts. damage_mechanics_mod.zip

At the moment the repo is still empty

This mod is now on github. Please can balancing advisors test it out? I will submit the most welcomed changes onto phabricator for incorporation into A25. https://github.com/Yekaterina999/Thorfinn-balancing-mod-new @Lion.Kanzen @borg- @LetswaveaBook @soloooy0

I would definitely go for both of these approaches if my more radical idea proves unpopular (which I kind of expected).

I have been on A25 for a long time and I have noticed that units march in a dense crowd when they move, as opposed to keeping some distance in previous alphas. This both has advantages and disadvantages, but it is nothing that needs to be changed. I would still prefer faster and more agile cavalry because rushing is still difficult, although it is easier to manoeuvre large groups of units now. In terms of engine performance... no change. I haven't dared to crank up the graphics settings on my laptop.

Hey guys! I saw some thoughts about balance and I thought I would put in my 2 cents. From what I have observed, team balance has meant different things in a23 and in a24. In a23, a balanced game would usually involve each player getting super sweaty and the game would get super intense. In a24, the intensity peaks at 15-16 minutes and then the game stagnates, a variety of things influence this like ranged units, metal availability, stone excess, structures power. The end result is that a balanced game does not feel competitive and exciting, but competitive and tiresome. I hope you guys can agree with these observations of 4v4s and 3v3s.

It's strange, the forum says there is no limitation. Can you try again?

I guess leftovers from de. Should be fixed.

Sí, lo sé, kkkk, yo solo era el "Advogado do diabo" aquí.

Tal vez usando un teclado y un ratón : D No estoy bromeando. (computadoras con S.O Android)

Nunca. Ya hablando en serio no creo que sea cómodo jugar un rts como 0 ad en un teléfono Android

I still like the mod version of A25 better. by @Yekaterina the phase 2 for Hellenes becomes more important, the castrum has a real function, the soliferrum ibero gives rush option in phase 2 the difference of using one civ or the other needs to be important in the next version. for the champion chariots, adding the option of melee and ranged would also be good, the question is with a blacksmith tech, castle or a cost each time it is done. the roman hunt so that the siege or horses are not stuck so much, is it feasible? for the Iberians the Campos frisio, would it be possible( desing by @Duileoga) ?

@Grapjas Ah, I see what you are saying. Yes, it is possible that my premise is flawed. I don't actually play competitively, so I am drawing from a biased sample of what vocal multiplayers are saying on the forums, and my own inferences from studying unit stats and casted matches. Perhaps I am looking at the wrong games, and in more even matchups people are rallying more. Still, I think it is still valid to acknowledge the merit of a patch that would encourage more volatile games.

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/ZY5vw

Auras perform range queries which can be expensive.

Gather rates are high compared to carry capacity, making shuttling more important in 0ad than most other games I'm aware of. If you want to reduce importance of shuttling you have to make units spend more time gathering instead of walking, not the other way around. I think it was AoE III that does away with shuttling altogether.

Play testing intensively the development version is definitely something desirable, yes. Where have you heard that? The only thing that was announced that we will stop adding A25 features on the first of June, if there is no delay. It doesn't mean A26 won't get new features.

Lower damage increases the opportunities for micro; increased damage gives more value to initial positioning. Low damage games have more tendency to snowball, as players will be more able to escape from bad fights before suffering significant damage. Personally I like micro opportunities, but I must say, EA already suffers from a problematic amount of snowballing. RTS is at its most interesting when there is a sustained back and forth (see AOE2 and SC BW). This requires the ability to either trap or immediately kill large numbers of units when they get out of position. EA's pathfinding doesn't really allow much trapping, so buffing melee DPS is probably the better option over all. Edit: But on the other hand, it might also be that slow, grindy fighting has become a staple of 0AD's identity. Changing it to prevent snowballing could alienate current players. In that case nerfing ranged DPS combined with other measures to reduce snowballing might be the better solution... in short, IDK.

Unless something changed we don't use rice fields as it's not historically accurate... I had one for non sloppy terrain.

Yes, but if the pikemen had longer range they could theoretically be stronger than any other military unit in large groups. Not having to move closer to poke the enemy is such a good buff.

Good point, but you do realise that a pikeman will lose to a spearman in a 1v1 combat. 2 pikeman will lose to 2 spearmen. So I think they are already weak and no need to make them worse. They only use is to absorb pierce attack right now.

Great , i had this idead because it would kinda replicate the phalanx without the use of those useless formations and would allow them to retain worst attack stats then spearmen because more of them could attack at the same time balancing it out.

love it. I had in mind to try to create a mod like that.

I think pikemen should behave like the AOE II kamayuk, "Kamayuks are most effective in large groups, as they have a range of one, enabling them to attack from behind one another". https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Kamayuk

Seems good. Honestly I would prefer for their slinger to be available in the Town Phase; Spartans have the identity of a melee infantry civilisation and should probably retain that identity since their champions should theoretically deal with infantry well enough. I would say a hard no to archers myself; that all said, I respect your choices in the matter.

New update requested by Solooy available here:

That is exactly why I want to give these two civs some other push options. Maybe a heave skirmisher champion or a spearman for Ptolemies?

This is the standard Zapotec from Terra Magna as it had been in A23 pulled out of its modpack and made into a single civ. It is clearly not on par with other A25 civilisations right now, but perhaps we can add things onto it, as discussed in the other Zapotec threads. If I can get the approval of interested parties, I will add two of my spins to this unique, American civ: 1. Boost the hack attack and cost of Macahuitl Warrior, turn it into champion-level unit (a bit like Skiritai) 2. Add a blowdart unit. I will also be uploading the mod.zip onto mod.io and git, considering the file size is pretty large (around 60MB)

As discussed yesterday, @Lion.Kanzen came up with the idea of using a torch unit for the Zapotecs, something I also used with the Maya (the use of fire was a technique in Mesoamerica, the Zapotecs used it against enemy cities in the time of the 0a.d. ). We could use archers or javalineer too.

Of course. When I first started I also enjoyed building pretty cities. But eventually bloodlust took over and high K/D ratio became my pursuit. Your mind will be changed as soon as you join the multiplayer lobby.

Buenas ; (Aquí otros bocetos de edificios) -Templo mayor maya 1º, -Templo mayor maya 2º ; -Edificio especial; Biblioteca 1º ; -Edificio especial; Biblioteca 2º; -Edificio especial; Plaza 1º; -Edificio especial; Plaza 2º; -Edificio especial; Pirámide 1º; -Edificio especial; Pirámide 2º; -Edificio especial; Observatorio 1º; -Edificio especial; Observatorio 2º; -Edificio especial; Observatorio 3º; Disculpen las molestias*

This is off-topic here, but it would be great to have most pre-Columbian American civilizations in a mod. Among them the Inca, who came up with advanced food preservation techniques for their defense. This could be a source of inspiration for expanding gameplay elements. The Inca had very mobile armies moving around "at random" along fronteer territories. The farmers in those regions were instructed to provide food for the armies by burying it in secret locations. It had to last until an army came around, so there were techniques that had to be observed to make sure the food kept fresh until then. I think they invented dry tomatoes and soups you just add water to.

Which means the Maya fit.

And / or reduce gathering rates. As some people complain EA to be to be to spamy reducing gathering rates is probably better.