A25 Feedbacks from testing

[Gurken Khan]

Stupid moving

Ok, my units are stupid and they move stupidly. But maybe some things can be better, and some even have been better in a23.

I. Getting stuck. Really makes me mad when my units find a way into the woods and then can't find a way out. Haven't had exactly that in a24 so far, but recently some units were stuck behind a short, single line of trees and couldn't find their way around. So maybe still some room for improvement.

II. Single file line. I thought there was some push mechanic now, can't really tell a difference. Gatherers still bump into each other when they're on the same resource and drop-off point. What really annoys me though is that overtaking is just not an option, so the slowest unit sets the pace for all others. If for example my cav was a little less stupid, they could 'open a second lane' and advance much faster; I guess on maps that would be the difference between the shortest and the fastest connection.

Spoiler

Notice how my stupid cav jams themselves in the back?

III. Turning times. I think they're ridiculously high now. Yeah I know, dancing and stuff, but maybe this could be reconsidered. ~Flowing around a CC to find their position to capture has always been a challenge for my stupids, but now - I suppose because of the turning times- it takes them like three or four times longer.

IV. Stopping to advance after attack order. What prompted my rant feedback. It changed from a23 and I really hate it. When I gave a group of units an order to attack a unit, they used to go to a point where they could attack and then take it from there. Now, if that target is killed or temporarily out of sight, they stop dead in their tracks or do some stupid stuff, like capturing a house or something I'm really not interested in. So if that behavior could be changed back to how it was in a23 I think that would be just great!

[soloooy0]

I still like the mod version of A25 better. by @Yekaterina
the phase 2 for Hellenes becomes more important, the castrum has a real function, the soliferrum ibero gives rush option in phase 2
the difference of using one civ or the other needs to be important in the next version.
for the champion chariots, adding the option of melee and ranged would also be good, the question is with a blacksmith tech, castle or a cost each time it is done. 
the roman hunt so that the siege or horses are not stuck so much, is it feasible?
for the Iberians the Campos frisio, would it be possible( desing by @Duileoga) ?

 

[Stan`]

7 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

Stupid moving

Ok, my units are stupid and they move stupidly. But maybe some things can be better, and some even have been better in a23.

I. Getting stuck. Really makes me mad when my units find a way into the woods and then can't find a way out. Haven't had exactly that in a24 so far, but recently some units were stuck behind a short, single line of trees and couldn't find their way around. So maybe still some room for improvement.

II. Single file line. I thought there was some push mechanic now, can't really tell a difference. Gatherers still bump into each other when they're on the same resource and drop-off point. What really annoys me though is that overtaking is just not an option, so the slowest unit sets the pace for all others. If for example my cav was a little less stupid, they could 'open a second lane' and advance much faster; I guess on maps that would be the difference between the shortest and the fastest connection.

  Hide contents

Notice how my stupid cav jams themselves in the back?

III. Turning times. I think they're ridiculously high now. Yeah I know, dancing and stuff, but maybe this could be reconsidered. ~Flowing around a CC to find their position to capture has always been a challenge for my stupids, but now - I suppose because of the turning times- it takes them like three or four times longer.

IV. Stopping to advance after attack order. What prompted my rant feedback. It changed from a23 and I really hate it. When I gave a group of units an order to attack a unit, they used to go to a point where they could attack and then take it from there. Now, if that target is killed or temporarily out of sight, they stop dead in their tracks or do some stupid stuff, like capturing a house or something I'm really not interested in. So if that behavior could be changed back to how it was in a23 I think that would be just great!

Did you actually try A25 or are you just making assumptions?

[Yekaterina]

2 hours ago, Stan` said:

Did you actually try A25 or are you just making assumptions?

I have been on A25 for a long time and I have noticed that units march in a dense crowd when they move, as opposed to keeping some distance in previous alphas. This both has advantages and disadvantages, but it is nothing that needs to be changed. 

I would still prefer faster and more agile cavalry because rushing is still difficult, although it is easier to manoeuvre large groups of units now. 

In terms of engine performance... no change. I haven't dared to crank up the graphics settings on my laptop. 

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

On 16/05/2021 at 11:11 AM, Yekaterina said:

Here you go guys Yekaterina Mod consists of everything you have proposed:

1. Everything said by @Thorfinn the Shallow Minded

2. Changes to Roman camps according to reza-math and @nani

3. Soliferreum champion units for Iberians as suggested by @soloooy0

4. African Veteran units for Carthaginians and Carthaginian heros can train units. 

yekaterinaMod.zip 133 kB · 8 downloads

Just unzip and install. It is called YekaterinaMod. 

Tell me which part you like and which part you don't, also report any bugs please. 

 

Sorry for the delay I fell asleep while reading the forum

@Lion.Kanzen

don't you have a repository for this one?

nevermind.

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Lion.Kanzen

[Gurken Khan]

16 hours ago, Stan` said:

Did you actually try A25 or are you just making assumptions?

On 15/05/2021 at 2:18 AM, Gurken Khan said:

I'm actually just getting into a24; so I hope y'all ok with me suggesting things for a25 before I switch to testing it.

Not sure what you'd consider assumptions. I thought I was always very clear on what versions I was referring to. I still wanna get some more a24 games in before I switch to a25, at least having played all civs. And I'm frankly enjoying the increased stability of a24, as a23 was reliably crashing. (And I'm not sure how the dev. version will work for me.)

I don't know if your ~reply implies stuff I mentioned has been addressed, looking forward to finding out. Hope that's ok for now.

[Freagarach]

5 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

Not sure what you'd consider assumptions.

Well, the thread is called "A25 Feedbacks from testing" so our most logical assumption would be that you were talking about A25. However, what you described did not fit in that assumption, hence @Stan` asking.

[alre]

On 20/05/2021 at 1:45 AM, Gurken Khan said:

Stupid moving

Ok, my units are stupid and they move stupidly. But maybe some things can be better, and some even have been better in a23.

I. Getting stuck. Really makes me mad when my units find a way into the woods and then can't find a way out. Haven't had exactly that in a24 so far, but recently some units were stuck behind a short, single line of trees and couldn't find their way around. So maybe still some room for improvement.

II. Single file line. I thought there was some push mechanic now, can't really tell a difference. Gatherers still bump into each other when they're on the same resource and drop-off point. What really annoys me though is that overtaking is just not an option, so the slowest unit sets the pace for all others. If for example my cav was a little less stupid, they could 'open a second lane' and advance much faster; I guess on maps that would be the difference between the shortest and the fastest connection.

  Reveal hidden contents

Notice how my stupid cav jams themselves in the back?

III. Turning times. I think they're ridiculously high now. Yeah I know, dancing and stuff, but maybe this could be reconsidered. ~Flowing around a CC to find their position to capture has always been a challenge for my stupids, but now - I suppose because of the turning times- it takes them like three or four times longer.

IV. Stopping to advance after attack order. What prompted my rant feedback. It changed from a23 and I really hate it. When I gave a group of units an order to attack a unit, they used to go to a point where they could attack and then take it from there. Now, if that target is killed or temporarily out of sight, they stop dead in their tracks or do some stupid stuff, like capturing a house or something I'm really not interested in. So if that behavior could be changed back to how it was in a23 I think that would be just great!

this happens to me as well (in a24, not sure about svn)

[Stan`]

27 minutes ago, alre said:

this happens to me as well (in a24, not sure about svn)

Well this should be better thanks to @wraitii's unit pushing.

[Yekaterina]

In A25 units push each other and they march in a dense crowd. I like that.

However you can take out more units with a lithobolos or oxybeles now

[Yekaterina]

2021-05-21_0006.zip

In this replay the horse killed the dear without taking anything back. There are also times when units don't respond to my orders, especially for garrison and repair. I hope those are caused by my misclicks, but the horse standing next to dead deer is a big problem. 

[Yekaterina]

I also noticed units just standing on a foundation and not building it, even though I have told it to build. This is especially a problem with skirmishers because they run so fast and then just stands on the foundation, preventing others from building it. 

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:

I also noticed units just standing on a foundation and not building it, even though I have told it to build. This is especially a problem with skirmishers because they run so fast and then just stands on the foundation, preventing others from building it. 

that happens from A24 I think.

[Yekaterina]

Now this is something serious. In the latest git version I tried a massive battle against 2 very hard AIs. It involved at least 5 elephants and a few hundred infantry. The game crashed. Before it crashed this error message was displayed:

[Yekaterina]

Also I noticed there is an additional overlay of stats; some small number under each type of resources we have, on the top left corner. What is that? Frankly it is a bit annoying and I would prefer to revert it back to the 5 numbers that it had been. 

I don't want the 0,0,0,0 row!

[Lion.Kanzen]

9 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

Also I noticed there is an additional overlay of stats; some small number under each type of resources we have, on the top left corner. What is that? Frankly it is a bit annoying and I would prefer to revert it back to the 5 numbers that it had been. 

I don't want the 0,0,0,0 row!

The numbers are the the amount of gathers working on each resource.

[Yekaterina]

Please can we have an option to turn it off?

 

[Stan`]

@Langbart

 

[Lopess]

1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:

Please can we have an option to turn it off?

 

 

But why? How does that get in the way? I consider it a good addition.

[Gurken Khan]

I like the a24 way:

(Except I'd prefer the pop count in one line.)

[Yekaterina]

3 hours ago, Lopess said:

But why? How does that get in the way? I consider it a good addition.

Well, it makes the numbers smaller, on my already crowded laptop screen. Also more numbers = more information = more reaction time = less good micro

I don't really care how many of my workers are gathering each resource, as long as I have enough of everything I am happy. I can divert workers if necessary. 

[Freagarach]

13 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

2021-05-21_0006.zip 48 kB · 1 download

In this replay the horse killed the dear without taking anything back. There are also times when units don't respond to my orders, especially for garrison and repair. I hope those are caused by my misclicks, but the horse standing next to dead deer is a big problem. 

You already pointed this out to me on IRC, and I already pointed you to a diff that should fix it. Could you please test D3986 and report back?

13 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

I also noticed units just standing on a foundation and not building it, even though I have told it to build. This is especially a problem with skirmishers because they run so fast and then just stands on the foundation, preventing others from building it. 

Do you have a replay for this?

11 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

Also I noticed there is an additional overlay of stats; some small number under each type of resources we have, on the top left corner. What is that? Frankly it is a bit annoying and I would prefer to revert it back to the 5 numbers that it had been.

This has been in the game for some time already, albeit not showing the zeroes and on a less readable position. You could try to gather [sic] more people that dislike the feature, but as far as I know there are more in favour. An option to toggle would of course be nice to have.

11 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

Now this is something serious. In the latest git version I tried a massive battle against 2 very hard AIs. It involved at least 5 elephants and a few hundred infantry. The game crashed. Before it crashed this error message was displayed:

You're using a mod, I see? Is the crash reproducible?

[Yekaterina]

1 hour ago, Freagarach said:

You're using a mod, I see? Is the crash reproducible

I recompiled with --large-address-aware and it didn't happen again.

[hyperion]

14 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

Also I noticed there is an additional overlay of stats

It's not new, already in A24, just less visible there. Actually that you only now noticed it means it's an improvement UI wise.

 

2 hours ago, Freagarach said:

An option to toggle would of course be nice to have.

If you want options for gui layout not even 100 would be enough. Better just think of the corresponding xml as the config file.

[Ceres]

On 22/05/2021 at 9:01 AM, Yekaterina said:

I recompiled with --large-address-aware and it didn't happen again.

Do I understand it right that this flag is not used by default and the right way to use it is as follows?

update-workspaces.bat --large-address-aware

How much memory is needed that it makes a difference? 8 GB or even more? Thank you!