Ceres

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Hi everyone, I've been looking into the possibility of creating Proto-Germanic voice lines for the Germans in 0 A.D. First, a note about AI: I used ChatGPT to help me find linguistic sources and prepare the first word suggestions below. This is preliminary research, not a finished translation. I'm not a historical linguist, and the proposed forms have not been independently reviewed by one. Some of them may well be wrong. No audio has been generated yet. My idea is not to reconstruct exactly what the Cimbri spoke around 100 BC. As far as I understand, the surviving evidence simply doesn't allow this. Instead, I would like to find a reasonable linguistic approximation that fits the historical setting of 0 A.D. and sounds good in the game. We only need about 18 short voice lines. Ideally, they should be one or two syllables long, but I don't think this needs to be a strict requirement. Before experimenting with recordings or text-to-speech, I would like to get the words and their pronunciation into a reasonably good state. 1. Which language should we use? Release 28 describes the Germans as a coalition of the Cimbri, Teutones, Ambrones and other Celto-Germanic groups. Official Release 28 announcement The linguistic situation seems rather uncertain. For example, Gilles Quentel discusses early contacts between Continental Celtic and Germanic. There are also different interpretations of the surviving names of the Cimbri and Teutones. Bichlmeier and Blažek discuss several possible etymologies of these tribal names in their 2020 publication. I think reconstructed Proto-Germanic could be a reasonable common language for the faction, as long as we make clear that this is an approximation, not a reconstruction of an attested Cimbrian dialect. There is also the question of the First Germanic Sound Shift and its chronology. For our purposes, I would initially use a consistent reconstructed Proto-Germanic pronunciation rather than trying to reconstruct a hypothetical earlier dialect specifically for 100 BC. Of course, I would be interested in other opinions on this. 2. First suggestions for the voice lines I used the English meanings from the Audio Voice List, with the Latin translations as an example: Audio Voice List – 0 A.D. Wiki The following is a working draft, NOT a finished or academically validated translation. All proposed Proto-Germanic words and forms are reconstructions, not directly attested historical expressions. Some of the specific forms still need linguistic verification. Most candidates were initially found through Wiktionary's Proto-Germanic reconstruction entries, which often refer to etymological dictionaries such as Kroonen or Orel. However, I have not independently checked every individual reconstruction against these books. I also used the freely available Proto-Germanic grammar by Winfred P. Lehmann and the IE-CoR linguistic database. Some forms are more tentative than others. I have marked the particularly uncertain ones instead of pretending that we already have a complete solution. Selection and greetings English Proposed form Notes Hello hailaz! Literally "healthy, whole". A possible greeting, but not an attested Cimbrian one. What is it? hwat? Simply "what?". Shortened for gameplay. My lord? frawjô? "Lord", without "my". The appropriate form of address should be checked. Movement and fighting English Proposed form Notes I will walk gō "I go / walk". I will fight fehtō "I fight". The meaning and exact form should be checked. I will attack! hwētō! "I attack". This candidate needs further linguistic checking. I will march! farō! "I go / travel". Not specifically military marching, but perhaps sufficient for a short acknowledgement. I will retreat! wīkwaną "To yield / retreat". This is still an infinitive. A shorter and grammatically appropriate spoken form is needed. Battle cry open Perhaps a non-verbal shout would work. Alternatively, a short expression based on a reconstructed verb for fighting could be considered. I would not want to invent something and present it as an authentic Germanic battle cry. Working and gathering English Proposed form Notes I will build timrō "I build". I will work land arjaną "To plough". The appropriate short spoken form still needs checking. I will gather samnō "I gather / collect". I will herd drībō "I drive". This could refer to driving livestock, but is not exactly the same as tending a herd. I will fish fiskō "I fish". I will repair bōtī "Improve / make good!" Not specifically repairing a building. The form and its use in this context need checking. I will hunt huntōn- Reconstructed verb stem only. The precise form and vowel length remain open. I will heal hailī "Heal!" An imperative rather than "I will heal". The exact form needs checking. Regarding hunting, the IE-CoR database gives huntōn- as its reference form, but its explanation also mentions hūnton-. The vowel length and the actual spoken form therefore need further checking. Other (I will put myself into) garrison — felhō Intended meaning: "I enter / go inside". This is one of the least secure suggestions and needs both lexical and grammatical checking. It is not an attested term for entering a garrison. A few remarks about the list The grammatical forms are not consistent yet. Some are first-person forms, others imperatives, infinitives or reconstructed stems. Personally, I don't think every response necessarily needs to be in the same grammatical form. The important thing is that it works as a short and natural-sounding acknowledgement in the game. However, we should make sure that the individual forms are actually plausible and not simply invented by an AI. Also, several suggestions deliberately use a broader meaning than the English original. For example, "I travel" instead of "I march" or "I drive" instead of "I herd". These would be gameplay decisions, not exact translations. I would be happy to replace any of these suggestions if there are better alternatives. 3. Sources Here are the main sources I found. Historical background Gilles Quentel (2012): Early Linguistic Contacts between Continental Celtic and Germanic: Lexical Aspects. Publication on ResearchGate Harald Bichlmeier and Václav Blažek (2020): "Cimbri" et "Teutoni". Journal article – Acta Linguistica Lithuanica Václav Blažek: On chronology of the First Germanic Sound Shift (Lex Rask – Grimm). Publication via DOI These publications discuss historical names, etymologies and linguistic developments. They do not provide translations of the 18 voice lines. Grammar and pronunciation Winfred P. Lehmann: A Grammar of Proto-Germanic. University of Texas at Austin. Complete online grammar The chapters on phonology and inflection are particularly relevant. R. D. Fulk (2018): A Comparative Grammar of the Early Germanic Languages. Publisher's page – Open Access e-book The complete e-book is freely available. I have not worked through the whole book, though. Vocabulary IE-CoR – Indo-European Cognate Relationships Linguistic database One useful example is the entry for "hunt": IE-CoR: hunt. It references Kroonen's Etymological Dictionary of Proto-Germanic and also illustrates why some details need further checking. I also used Wiktionary's Proto-Germanic reconstruction entries as starting points for individual words: Proto-Germanic reconstructed terms Some examples: fehtaną – to fight timrōną – to build fiskōną – to fish hwētaną – to attack These entries are helpful for finding possible forms and references, but they are not a substitute for checking the original academic literature. 4. What is still missing? Before recording anything, I think we would need: Someone with knowledge of historical Germanic linguistics to review the suggested words and their grammatical forms. A consistent pronunciation guide, preferably using IPA. Better solutions for the uncertain expressions, especially retreat, repair, healing and garrison. A decision on the battle cry. A way to produce natural-sounding recordings that can be freely distributed with 0 A.D. I know there has already been some discussion about AI-generated content in the project. I'm not attached to using AI for the final audio. Human recordings would be fine as well. For now, AI has mainly helped me find sources and put together this preliminary list. I would be interested to know whether AI-assisted linguistic research is acceptable for this kind of contribution, and what the requirements for the final recordings would be. 5. Questions Does this general approach make sense for the Germans in 0 A.D.? Would reconstructed Proto-Germanic be a suitable choice, or should we consider another linguistic approach? And is anyone here familiar with historical Germanic linguistics who could help check the proposed words and pronunciation? I would be happy to continue working on this if there is interest. Thanks!

Hello, long time no write, sorry! Is this one (opened 4 days ago) still considered a blocker? https://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/6931

Is all this something different than the 1000 A.D. mod which is available via the 0 A.D. in-game mod download? Is it compatible with a26?

Dear Developers! Can you please provide some guidance when/why the crashlog.txt file (Windows 11) does not contain call stack information? I always only see what I show below (besides all the OS- and game-related information, of course). Should/could there be more? Call stack: (error while dumping stack: No stack frames found) errno = 2 (Error during IO) OS error = 0 (no error code was set) What does it mean if there is only this little (or no) information about the call stack? If there is only so little/no information, does the crashlog.dmp file contain it in lieu? Or is that other information? And how could I read (and understand) the unzipped memory.dmp if I created a memory dump for pyrogenesis.exe in Windows 11? After reading the Wiki about debugging, I am still not sure about it, hence my questions. Thank you so much for your help!

@Stan` Is there a debugging function showing in the console the (local) player's interaction with the user interface? If yes, then maybe that information would already help non-experts to find the right area for the code. I could try and check but don't know how to properly enable a debugging mode.

Thank you both, @Freagarach and @maroder! A bit OT here: Would it be possible to tweak scenarios likewise, so they offer playing with 4-5 (e.g. 3 humans vs. 1-2 AIs), despite they were made for playing with less players? I ask, because there are several scenarios we are interested in but would only be able to play with 3 (and thus against each other, i.e. without additional AIs to conquer).

What do you mean by "censorship to the max"? (I'm not an English native speaker and may have missed the point, sorry)

Hello! How can a player currently know if capturing or attacking a building is faster? I'm assuming a positive result for this question but can imagine that the outcome might also differ (failure vs. success) when comparing capture and attack of the same building with the same units (attackers and garrisoned). However, I have no idea about the mechanics behind, hence my question. What are the variables and calcs that affect the speed and outcome? Thanks for providing me with some hints for further reading!

It's always good to try clarifying emotional stuff via PM first. Cheers!

In some scenarios, this option is not available.

Hello! Is it possible to get a link/path to the code that is responsible for an item (menu, unit) clicked on, e.g. in the console? Thus, one could find the right place in the code quicker if interested in e.g. a menu structure.

Well, the kids complained among each other and - despite having agreed upfront to play together, not against each other - started clicking the button to change allies. I fully understand that most people would rightfully argue that this is normal and that kids need to learn, and I totally agree. However, I admittedly was a bit annoyed about it and then thought how nice it would be to have such an option. Now you see the background of my question. Whether it helps to understand it, I don't know, but I fully understand if this is nothing anyone would invest time in. In case somebody sees other and better reasons to have such an option, feel free to add your thoughts here.

@Mentula Great explanation - thank you! Have you thought about adding it to the Wiki?

Do the buttons have to be centered, or could you place them dynamically (more to the sides, top, or bottom), based on the background? (vertically or horizontally, maybe even depending on the screen ratio & resolution) Is there some generally agreed upon harmonised and documented UX theme? Or are all UX items placed hardcoded as they seem to fit in respective menus?