Sunday Pro Games League Fixture

[HMS-Surprise]

The League Fixture has been UPDATED: check the latest post.

Hi all,

 

We are working on Sunday Pro Games League Fixture. We came with some ideas. This is a controversial subject, so we would like to find a basic solution for the event. Currently, the league fixture is something like this:

How did we come to these results?

-If you are in the winning team you get 2 points. Otherwise, you got 1 point.

-We divide 3 points between the players according to their KD, Military Score, and Kill counts. 

-Players can get a penalty(a yellow card) if they broke no dance, no wonder rule. 2 Yellow cards = 1 Red Card. The players who have a Red Card will be banned for the next match. 

 

For example, let's look at @JC (naval supremacist)'s score. He was in the losing team so he gets 1 point from the team game. He has 1.2 KD ratio. So, we look at total KD ratio: 7.86. If you divide 1.2/7.86 you get 0.15... points. Then military score. He has 4492 and the total military is 34511. If you divide 4492/34511 you get 0.13... Then Kill counts are involved. He has 405 kills and total kills are 2861. If you divide 405/2861 you get 0.14... points. If you sum up all the points, JC gets 0.42 Skill Points. And he has 1 point which is coming from the losing team. So 1 + 0.42 equals 1.42 points.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

Cheers,

Edited May 1, 2019 by HMS-Surprise

[nani]

I think for now @Unknown_Player should decide based on who he thinks are the best players on the room. Rating and statistics points can be gamed too easy. I would recommend to base decision based on data only when you have more data to contrast with it (e.g minimum 10 games).

[HMS-Surprise]

16 minutes ago, nani said:

I think for now @Unknown_Player should decide based on who he thinks are the best players on the room. Rating and statistics points can be gamed too easy. I would recommend to base decision based on data only when you have more data to contrast with it (e.g minimum 10 games).

Unknown_Player is our host. This league fixture is something different. Unknown_Player will suggest players before 5-10 minutes before the game. He chose the players who are in the room already. Medium players can play too if there is a spot. This event will last for 8 weeks. At the end of the event, those points will determine the best players who joined the event. 

 

 

[soshanko]

where is todays match?

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

@soshanko 

[soshanko]

no games held last day. :/

 

[Stan`]

38 minutes ago, soshanko said:

no games held last day. :/

 

It was hosted on FeldFeld's channel instead.

[Feldfeld]

Indeed, there were some technical issues so i had to stream by myself and on my channel and started commentating a bit late.

[camel]

Its hard to rate perfectly. Imagine on my side if  we are facing players like feldfeld, valihrant, borg...on the contrary, the other side, logicaly willl be weaker than that one. So how can u judge there? 

 

[HMS-Surprise]

Hi all,

I've updated the League Fixture. Now, the economy score was implemented somehow. However, we calculate the resources that you sent. If you feed more you get more points. I can't solve the early aggression issue. My coding skill is very limited. If you would like to help us to make a better League Fixture send me a PM. Tell us what you think about it. Have fun.

 

[nani]

@Pudimdanced in Week#2 match, I remember it very well :/. He stopped once told but still made me lose 20~30 in a decisive battle for territory control. You can ask @Feldfeld. I only think is fair to mention it, not trying to point fingers. 

[Feldfeld]

I am the one who decided to not give the yellow card because he stopped right after being told and i was not sure if it was said in the chat before that dancing is forbidden (was trying to fix technical issue at that time) so he might not have known.
Sorry, if it is preferred by most players/viewers to strictly follow the rules then I won't take those arbitrary decisions.

[HMS-Surprise]

On 4/29/2019 at 2:05 PM, camel said:

Its hard to rate perfectly. Imagine on my side if  we are facing players like feldfeld, valihrant, borg...on the contrary, the other side, logicaly willl be weaker than that one. So how can u judge there? 

 

The most important thing here to win as a team. When you are the winning team you get 2 points. Then the other scores are involved. Unknown_Player is the host here. He balances the game and asks other players ideas. You need to be more the winning team to get more points. This is not like 1v1 matches. Team play is more important. Yes, we cannot make it perfect but we can start from somewhere. It will be better day by day. Share all your ideas. Have fun.

[JamesWright]

On 4/29/2019 at 5:57 AM, stanislas69 said:

It was hosted on FeldFeld's channel instead.

His channel didn't work.

[JamesWright]

Oh and btw,  what is dancing.

[HMS-Surprise]

@go2die you can find the video and replay in the main thread. Here is the link.

Edited May 6, 2019 by HMS-Surprise

[Boudica]

Hello, I only noticed this thread now, so I'll put my two cents in. The system you introduced is probably not far from the best you can get, but that's partly because it's really hard to create a fair system. Giving a whole point for a win is a good way to discourage selfish playing. I'm a bit afraid that some of the other factors could be misused.

When you now count in the resources shared, it's very important to weight the importance of the share at each time such event occurred. 100 of wood in the first minute can easily mean more than 1000 wood at minute 10 when the average player's economy is stronger and gathering is much faster thanks to upgrades. Also remember that at the resign time, fgod mod shares all the resources you have with whoever is left. Imagine that two allies resign just before you and now half of their resources also get counted as those that you shared with the last remaining ally.

The same sure holds for the kill count and the kill / death ratio. Getting someone's ten women early in the game can decide the whole game, while a few minutes later players would even want to delete their women just to make more space for soldiers.

Anyway, I know that it's hard to adjust for these factors. They could perhaps be implemented into the military score the game shows, which would make things much easier. Currently the system favors economy focus to raiding early in the game, dumping useless resources to allies later, and the player gets penalized for making tank units while their ally gets all the kills in a fight. You could notice the last thing in the game of yesterday when borg had like 60 spearmen taking damage for fpre's slingers.

 

[HMS-Surprise]

8 minutes ago, Boudica said:

Hello, I only noticed this thread now, so I'll put my two cents in. The system you introduced is probably not far from the best you can get, but that's partly because it's really hard to create a fair system. Giving a whole point for a win is a good way to discourage selfish playing. I'm a bit afraid that some of the other factors could be misused.

When you now count in the resources shared, it's very important to weight the importance of the share at each time such event occurred. 100 of wood in the first minute can easily mean more than 1000 wood at minute 10 when the average player's economy is stronger and gathering is much faster thanks to upgrades. Also remember that at the resign time, fgod mod shares all the resources you have with whoever is left. Imagine that two allies resign just before you and now half of their resources also get counted as those that you shared with the last remaining ally.

The same sure holds for the kill count and the kill / death ratio. Getting someone's ten women early in the game can decide the whole game, while a few minutes later players would even want to delete their women just to make more space for soldiers.

Anyway, I know that it's hard to adjust for these factors. They could perhaps be implemented into the military score the game shows, which would make things much easier. Currently the system favors economy focus to raiding early in the game, dumping useless resources to allies later, and the player gets penalized for making tank units while their ally gets all the kills in a fight. You could notice the last thing in the game of yesterday when borg had like 60 spearmen taking damage for fpre's slingers.

 

You're totally right about it. We can do all your suggestions during the league. However, we do not have a talent who can track and extract data from the replays. We're happy to accept motivated talents who can help the league fixture make better. If you know someone who can do the job please don't hesitate to share their names or send a PM. Thanks for your contribution. 

[HMS-Surprise]

 

Check out the current league fixture above. Tell us if you know someone who is motivated to track and extract data from the replays to make the league fixture better. Have fun.

[Boudica]

We could probably extract the time of a resource share event from the replay file easily, but it could be more accurate to weight by the average economy strength or value of each resource at the given time. To get the whole context, it's probably better to just run the replay with some event hooks that update the score. This approach also allows weighting kills, which aren't explicitly written in the replay data. You already know who can do that kind of thing. Let's ping @ffffffff to see if he's interested. 

[camel]

This last game was very nice to play and for see repetition. Comebacks from both sides, a lot of spot figths, from  2v2 on each side to 3v3 and 1v1 etc. Quite intense, with raids from both sides, valirahnt and Boudica sometimes holding 2v1, continuosly res support from each team to help between us etc.. Lets hope all games being like that one.

Also we need to clarify the passive hero dance, im agree that is the same as dance, focus all dps army and then ran away to come back again its, in fact, the same stuff. Moderators u will decide what to do with that. 

Cya.

Edited May 6, 2019 by camel

[sarcoma]

On 5/6/2019 at 3:00 AM, HMS-Surprise said:

If you know someone who can do the job please don't hesitate to share their names

causative can

[sarcoma]

Sort by average, not total

[Stan`]

@HMS-Surprise Would it possible for you guys to run the svn version of the game ? This would provide us with accurate feedback and recent commands.txt @wraitii is working on the pathfinder, and will be needing real life samples to make sure nothing get unintentionally broken

[HMS-Surprise]

6 hours ago, sarcoma said:

Sort by average, not total

@sarcoma The league fixture is currently developing. We'd like to make it fair as possible as. The league fixture encourages pro players to join more than once at the moment. Sorting by average isn't fair for the players who attend regularly. If you look at the fixture @Unknown_Player has the highest score but he was in the losing team twice and he attended all 3 matches. @camelius and @ffffffffpre attended twice and they were in the winning team. So, they have a higher average. Attending more should be advantageous for the players  and of course, this is a  team game, they need to be in the winning team too to get more points. I believe we can make the league fixture better. Let's see if we can find someone who can help to make it better.