New Civ for Alpha 28+?

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

On 3/1/2023 at 8:03 PM, chrstgtr said:

But why? Caesar’s contemporaries exist. There is Vercin. There is Cleopatra. Other civs include a wider date range—Ptol includes their first ruler and their last ruler, which begins earlier and ends later than Rome’s Punic Wars depiction. Why restrict Rome only to the Punic Wars period?

The game is about the supposed golden age of particular civilisations, and while it might be debatable that Rome was at its greatest during the Punic Wars, it does still show a phase in which Republican values were still important.  A Rome during Caesar's time would be vastly different in its use of a professional army, more or less breaking the citizen-soldier formula.  

Cleopatra and Vercingetorix being present is more due to pop-culture status in history instead of them actually identifying with timeframe in which either of their respective factions were at their height; this is not to call either of them poor leaders.  They were iconic rulers during their civilisation's downfall.  This fault is not unique.  Heroes like Agis III and Iphicrates are similarly difficult to reconcile with the theme of the game as they were leaders of their respective factions during times in which Athens and Sparta were little more than regional powers.  It is for that reason that I have put forward replacements like Agesilaus II for Agis.  

[Genava55]

4 hours ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

The game is about the supposed golden age of particular civilisations

Not really. Rome is the only case following this rule. And like you mentioned, saying the Punic Wars period is the golden age is very debatable, I would not agree on this for example. Honestly this is a bad idea and I am pretty sure most people would agree it should be changed.

Furthermore the buildings are inspired from later architecture not the architecture from the Punic Wars. So it is even not coherent.

[Genava55]

5 hours ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

Cleopatra and Vercingetorix being present is more due to pop-culture status in history instead of them actually identifying with timeframe in which either of their respective factions were at their height; this is not to call either of them poor leaders.  They were iconic rulers during their civilisation's downfall.  This fault is not unique.  Heroes like Agis III and Iphicrates are similarly difficult to reconcile with the theme of the game as they were leaders of their respective factions during times in which Athens and Sparta were little more than regional powers.  It is for that reason that I have put forward replacements like Agesilaus II for Agis.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth-century_Athens

The golden age of Athens is the 5th century BC. So we should restrict the civ to this period and remove everything that appeared later, like the artillery.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

9 hours ago, Genava55 said:

Chavin is probably the best choice.

After the currently voted Scythians & Xiongnu, in theory another "combo" of two American civs would be nice. It doesn't seem these people did much fighting tho.

Zapotecs and maya are good contenders, I don't think we have to only consider civs at their "peak", this is an unnecessary limitation imo. Just because one typically thinks of the maya in later time periods doesn't mean they didn't exist in any significance at 0 A.D.

Teotihuacan was apparently founded before 0 a.d. and grew a lot through 250AD, which seems to be a period of urbanization.

IDK if this fight is outside the timeframe, but these two cultural centers seem to be as much city-states as greek ones we have in game:

https://www.science.org/content/article/astounding-new-finds-suggest-ancient-empire-may-be-hiding-plain-sight

However, it is science reporting which tends to be flawed.

Edited January 5, 2023 by real_tabasco_sauce

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

I think civilization design should be allowed generous room to follow a civ through some centuries of development, and having different versions of the same civ for different time periods decreases the flexibility of mechanic design and civ differentiation (republican and imperial rome).

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

2 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

I think civilization design should be allowed generous room to follow a civ through some centuries of development, and having different versions of the same civ for different time periods decreases the flexibility of mechanic design and civ differentiation (republican and imperial rome).

While it may not be worthwhile to, say, have 2 Macedonian civs (Argead and Antigonid) or 2 Spartan civs (Classical and Hellenistic), I think Rome would be the one exception to this. The Republican era was very different from the Principate era, which itself was different from the Dominate era. Rome as a polity lasted so long it could be worthwhile to put the effort into depicting these 3 eras separately. 

Perhaps a special feature of the Roman civ could be this ability to choose "eras." At the start of the match playing as the Romans, the player is given the choice of which era they wish to play (Republican, Triumvirate, Principate, Dominate) which then alters unit roster, techs, buildings, etc. to suit this choice. Or... just have 3 separate civs and have a random "Romans" group in game setup. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

5 hours ago, Genava55 said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth-century_Athens

The golden age of Athens is the 5th century BC. So we should restrict the civ to this period and remove everything that appeared later, like the artillery.

I'm not opposed to it. And let's keep in mind that just because we replace Iphicrates with someone else (Miltiades, Aristides, Alcibiades)  it doesn't mean we still can't have Iphicrates in the editor or in a campaign. 

[soloooy0]

On 04/01/2023 at 3:31 AM, chrstgtr said:

Dicho lo anterior, mayas??? O, para mí, cualquiera que no sea otra civilización helenística.

No horses, no metals, it will be a pretty weak faction, the nomads are unjudgeable for me in the mods (I'm also bad with ptl) but hey, you can create some easy boom pop and some technology so that their weapons cause tearing, a kind of damage by fire, but only against organics even so I am not convinced by any of the 2 nomads and mayans

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

The Nomads had iron weapons and iron armor, just like their contemporaries, and light and heavy cavalry.  Mayas and Zapotecs didn't have any of that, you're right.

[soloooy0]

some way to put the soliferrum to the Iberians and marvelously the vilars de alberca, me gustaria ver a los lusitanos en un futuro 
@Duileogaque le faltan a los lusitanos ??

[Lopess]

6 hours ago, soloooy0 said:

some way to put the soliferrum to the Iberians and marvelously the vilars de alberca, me gustaria ver a los lusitanos en un futuro 
@Duileogaque le faltan a los lusitanos ??

Take a look at Github the mods are being updated little by little for the new alpha, there are some points where we can refine the models but @Duileoga has already done a brilliant job, about the Mayans they are also updating take a look there too, there is a proposal on the mod that mostly supplies its peculiarities.

[leopard]

rather than adding new civ why we are not thinking about a new phase.

[Outis]

3 hours ago, leopard said:

rather than adding new civ why we are not thinking about a new phase.

Why not both? 

A 4th phase is welcome like in AOE. However, each phase should have a focus. In AOE2, phase 2 was an opportunity to rush before defenses came up, phase 3 was where better offensive units came such as knights but also better defenses like castles so it was difficult to finish off a well defended town, then phase 4 introduced ultimate siege weapons like trebuchets and bombards.

[Freagarach]

3 hours ago, leopard said:

new phase

beta?

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

I could imagine designing imperial Rome as a fourth phase for romans, but I am not sure how badly people want to make a fully separate civ for imperial rome.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

8 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

I could imagine designing imperial Rome as a fourth phase for romans, but I am not sure how badly people want to make a fully separate civ for imperial rome.

It is very easy to make a separate civ, since it already exists in DE.

13 hours ago, leopard said:

rather than adding new civ why we are not thinking about a new phase.

Mainly because the army and navy of the Principate is very different from the Mid-Republic. It's not just the matter of unlocking a couple new champions or something.  The Principate no longer has "citizen-soldiers" in the way depicted in the game. The army composition is different and all of the armor and textures are different. The navy of the Principate no longer used quinqueremes, but light warships called Liburna, analogous to biremes. 

Edited January 7, 2023 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Duileoga]

On 05/01/2023 at 4:57 AM, Sturm said:

Is it possible to make a map of the civilizations already inserted in the game? I know that the game's time frame doesn't help, but... South America seems to me to be totally unrepresented. Is there any civilization on this sub-continent (South America) with enough data to create a civilization in a game with a time frame like 0 ad?

Mochicas

[Duileoga]

On 06/01/2023 at 3:04 AM, soloooy0 said:

some way to put the soliferrum to the Iberians and marvelously the vilars de alberca, me gustaria ver a los lusitanos en un futuro 
@Duileogaque le faltan a los lusitanos ??

Buenos días o tardes;

-Por mi parte yo ya casi terminé con ellos ( igual tengo que hacer algunos iconos ) y @Lopess está incluyendo las actualizaciones . Creo que deberían ser @wowgetoffyourcellphone y @Stan` quienes nos digan que falta para considerar "Finalizada" y "Apta " la facción Lusitana.

 

Disculpen las molestias*

[Duileoga]

On 06/01/2023 at 2:38 AM, soloooy0 said:

No horses, no metals, it will be a pretty weak faction, the nomads are unjudgeable for me in the mods (I'm also bad with ptl) but hey, you can create some easy boom pop and some technology so that their weapons cause tearing, a kind of damage by fire, but only against organics even so I am not convinced by any of the 2 nomads and mayans

-Las bonificaciones y tecnologías especiales deben compensar eso.

[Duileoga]

On 04/01/2023 at 4:10 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I agree with the poll.  But if the Council of 0 A.D. Enthusiasts, plus @Stan` @Freagarach @wraitii et al. wanted to expand the scope a bit to add the Pre-Classical Maya, then I'd be all for it. @Lopess and @Duileoga are making a good mod for them. 

Good morning or aftrnoon;

-¿Are you saying that it is possible that we will see the Mayas it in the next alpha?,

-If so, when I can, I will dedicate all the efforts I have.

 

Sorry for the inconveniences*

[leopard]

On 06/01/2023 at 8:31 PM, Freagarach said:

beta?

phase 4, in fact I had a dream of going to phase 4 in my sleep, 

My army was super awesome in that phase.

[Frederick_1]

On 04/01/2023 at 2:43 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Thing is, the reason you can't train Julius Caesar is precisely because of the time restriction. JC was born 100 years after the final Punic War and the Romans in the game are depicted in the Punic Wars era.

I was not aware of that. The name of the game is 0AD, which refers to a later period. So It would be not far to seek for a second roman Series which is picted to a later period.

Some day I was examine the "sandbox-Themes" of several cultures, and realize some of them   have more designs for  heros than you can select in alpha 0.27. Maybe there can be found a way to make them accessible within the 3 hero limit.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

6 minutes ago, Frederick_1 said:

I was not aware of that. The name of the game is 0AD, which refers to a later period. So It would be not far to seek for a second roman Series which is picted to a later period.

 

0 A.D. is a fictional time, so gives the game license to mix and match civilization encounters. I also agree that Rome can eventually be depicted in various periods. 

 

6 minutes ago, Frederick_1 said:

Some day I was examine the "sandbox-Themes" of several cultures, and realize some of them   have more designs for  heros than you can select in alpha 0.27. Maybe there can be found a way to make them accessible within the 3 hero limit.

It's already possible to limit the number of trained heroes to 3, but offer a choice of more than 3. It just takes agreement to make this happen.

[Freagarach]

18 hours ago, leopard said:

phase 4, in fact I had a dream of going to phase 4 in my sleep, 

My army was super awesome in that phase.

That is called REM. ;P

[LetswaveaBook]

What concerns me most about the game is that Romans develop almost the same as the barbarians. I can't really say that Romans in the game feel like an urban and more "civilized" faction.