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6 points
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I am just trying to copy this from https://www.moddb.com/mods/hyrule-conquest/news/the-node-system Details on one of the largest additions to how maps are designed and work in Hyrule Conquest. Posted by The_Undying_Nephalim on Dec 13th, 2021 For some time there have been whispers of some fundamental changes to how maps work in Hyrule Conquest. We kept these ideas off to the side while we spent eight months updating Hyrule Conquest to the 0.25 version of 0AD. Now that everything has finally been ported over, our map changes had come up again and we had quite a discussion on how to implement them. We really went all in. So I present to you today one of the biggest and most exciting changes I've been looking forward to. The Node System It should be obvious that over the last several years, Hyrule Conquest has slowly but surely been shifting away from 0AD's style of gameplay and morphing more and more into a Battle for Middle Earth inspired game. Adding in Battalions was the first big move in this direction, and now we are taking another big leap and fully adopting BFME's map design and Node based system. There are several key reasons why we are doing this (other then mine and Exodarion's love for BFME as a game): 1. Lack of many worker battalions will greatly help the game's performance 2. Map design becomes much easier and less chaotic, with the map divided into dedicated nodes it becomes easier to make great "set pieces" that the action takes place around. 3. Our planned Minor Faction system (something I'm even more excited about!) depends heavily on dividing the map up into Nodes So What's changing? The first and most obvious thing that players will notice is that maps are divided up into a series of "Nodes". There are many different types of nodes the player can capture, and each type will allow the player to build different structures and provide the player with different options and resources. To compensate for this system, bases will be entirely linked to Nodes and structures will be built on plots that spawn around captured Nodes. Resource collections will now be completely automated and based on what resources exist within the Node's perimeter. For example, if you capture a node that has three Berry Bushes and a Rupee Deposit, once you have set up your base these bushes and Rupees will begin to drain automatically and added into your coffers. If you have played Battle For Middle Earth, Rise of Legends, or Halo Wars, you'll have some idea of what I'm talking about. -The Hylians capture an Outpost Node and transform it into a happy little base- As you might have guessed after reading the first point, Workers as a unit are no longer viable with this system since buildings are based on Plots that spawn around Nodes and Resources are automatically drained within your captured Nodes. Workers will become purely visual as a worker will begin gathering the resources that your Nodes are draining. With the way bases work now many other awesome non-controlled units will be seen walking around your bases doing stuff such as civilians going to your marketplaces and children playing with each other in the streets. -Even Children will play in the streets of your bases- This method of dividing up maps will create a noticeable ebb and flow to a match where players move their armies and expand, allowing for the creation of "set pieces" around each node to give areas of the map something visually recognizable. It generally makes the design and creation of maps easier and will also help out with randomly generated maps down the road. - Some examples of map blueprints with the Node system - Let's take a look at the Node System in more detail and see what you can capture. Settlement Node There is only one Settlement Node per player on a map, and it's always the Node that you start out with. This large area contains some of each resource to get you started, and plenty of building slots to start construction (Most factions will have 7 buildings plots). Depending on what faction you pick, these nodes may also start with walls and tower defenses around them. Outpost Node The primary means of expanding your base, capturing an outpost will allow you to build a smaller secondary and tertiary base, assuming you can capture more than one. Most factions are provided with five building plots when they capture an Outpost node, and may also have walls depending on your faction of choice. Like the Settlement Node, Outpost Nodes often have multiple resources on them making them very valuable locations to fight over. Camp Node Very small expansions, Camp Nodes let you set up tiny bases. For most factions they will provide three building plots. Camps do not come with Walls, though there are some exceptions. While nowhere near as valuable as an Outpost or Settlement, Camps still often contain multiple resource types and are thus worth capturing and holding. Camps are also the only Nodes that you can construct your chosen Minor Factions' bases on. Resource Node A small node that can be captured and provides you with one slot to construct a resource building. Resource Nodes often contain just a single type of resource (Such as Lumber). While Outpost and Camps are the most tempting targets, Resource Nodes will absolutely be the main means of expanding your economy. Once resources have been completely drained from these nodes, players can convert the resource building into Houses to increase their population caps. Some other factions will also have additional options of what they can build on these nodes, such as Mercenary camps. Small and Large Ruins Rupees are an extremely rare resource out in the wild, thus capturing Ruins and unearthing their treasure is the primary means of collecting Rupees. Ruins will be absolutely critical to take and hold, as they are the main source of Rupees and the only reliable source of them. Ruins will come in two sizes, the small providing only a few Rupees per second and the Large providing many. Unlike other Nodes, most factions cannot build anything on or near Ruins. Some factions however, such as the Darknuts, can actually convert Ruins into brand new bases (Large Ruins function much like an Outpost for them and Small Ruins like a Camp). Other factions (such as the Stalfos) completely rely on using Ruins to construct their bases instead of the normal nodes. Wonder Node Usually found at the center of a map, these nodes are the only location a player can construct their Wonder. Just as often a large and terrifying Boss might be found guarding this node and must be killed first before it can be captured. Capturing this node will allow you to construct a new base with many defenses around it as you begin construction on your imposing Wonder. That is a general overview for how maps will be designed and how the Nodes on these maps will work. This is a very broad and generalized summary of the topic, the particular nuances of how each faction interacts with nodes will not all be exactly alike. I already gave examples of how Darknuts and Stalfos break the rules with this system, and there are some many interesting ways other factions will have interplay with Nodes (I'm looking at you, Moblins...) There are many other awesome features linked to this new change, such as Wildlife Lairs and the previously mentioned Minor Faction system. However I will save those for another article in the future. - Juicy Minor Faction details will have to wait... -4 points
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Well I really want to prove you wrong Three reasons: Was the only advanced mod (now we got DE and HC) That has been blocking for years, but it's now obsolete Not everything was historically accurate, we're just missing a few things, we got the new bixie by @lastrodamo and now we just need camel anims and some little fixes. Since A24 I wanted to avoid a balancing debacle and or ruin the work that had been done3 points
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Balance is most certainly not the reason Han chinese have not yet been added to the main game. I myself asked/advocated multiple times in the irc-dev channel for their inclusion, and it looks like the reason(s) they have not been added is something else, although I don't know (if I learned) the exact reason(s) And really, the development power is quite low at the moment. There are about 2 developpers coding, and 2 more reviewing, all in their free time, I don't feel like this will ever get much done in the grand scheme of things.2 points
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Have to agree I would vote to just include every civ from DE that is over 80 percent done. Then do balancing by grouping civs.2 points
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I want to emphasize that any time and energy anyone puts into trying to make 0 A.D. better is appreciated. My point was just that there are different roles that any individual can fill based on the topic at hand. There are different "hats" you can wear. Some people are good at wearing different hats, some people aren't. Some people want to just wear 1 hat. All of that is fine, as long as folks recognize that the hats exist. Xposted from @leopard's post.2 points
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In my opinion, it's a reasonable bonus. The problem is, as pointed by other people, that some of the team bonuses are comparably much less usefull, making the iberian's seem stronger than it really is.2 points
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Just adding the official 0AD Newbie Rush edition of @Yekaterina's guide here; Download link below Massive thanks to @Yekaterina for allowing me to produce the official tie-in version, I've no doubt it's going to be popular and look forward to reading future, updated editions (not least because I'm so bad at the game myself and need all the help I can get!) From_nub_to_OP_Dec2021.pdf2 points
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First I would like to offer the disclaimer that an emphasis on balance is not a bad thing. It helps to maintain a thriving community, and the community is integral to an open source topic. That said, many design decisions that have changed the game on an integral level were done so with balance in mind, not an end vision. Again, this is not bad either, but ultimately it means that many of 0 AD's design choices are near sighted and balanced =/= good design. Ultimately a problem I see with the game from this standpoint is that the factions are fairly bland. Yes, there are restrictions to what units are available, but at the end of the day a Persian spearman has the same statline most other factions. Many great proposals have been done to flesh them out better. I would particularly mention wowgetoffyourcellphone's and my own, but I'm sure that there are plenty of others. Despite often a great amount of thought being put into them and at least some of the community having positive opinions on the alterations, to my knowledge little if anything gets done. This is ultimately motivated by the fact that these would throw the balance in flux. While this is exasperating to people who would like change, the points behind these conservatives are valid. The multiplayer community might suffer. That said, I think that there is a reasonable compromise that 0 AD can and should take to help diversify factions and gameplay for the longterm without ruining the competitive scene. One by one factions could experience overhauls with key things in mind: How would their economy function differently from other ones? Are there any ways to reward strategic building placement? Are there any glaring inaccuracies in the design? What are current strategies used in the competitive scene, and how could these be expanded upon? These new iterations of the factions would initially be an option until all factions have experienced an overhaul, allowing for players to freely choose between the current, more balanced faction designs and the more experimental ones. Then, the team could in theory even turn around and continue the cycle of overhauls.1 point
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@Yekaterina you can try disabling TLS Encryption under options -> networking / lobby1 point
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That's fine, I know you are a rusher and I was referring to people who boomed for 14 minutes straight. I will explain in a later edition (from 1400 to 1600) some times when these rules can be broken. Your merc rush is certainly one of the special strategies that requires you to break these rules.1 point
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These are things that I mostly don't really do. Anyway, thanks for the guide to 2k.1 point
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@wowgetoffyourcellphone - you beat me to posting this! Was off fighting with (another) PCR test!!!!! Thanks dude1 point
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Well my suggestion would not lead to people being banned for using multiple accounts, only to them actually only being able to use one account. You could ofc still being banned for other unwanted behavior.1 point
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IDK, some kind of historical justification could be found. If britons were found to adopt technology quickly, or their society developed quickly, then that could justify it. I suppose we could give it to athens and call it "democracy" or something. What is important is that each civ has some bonus significant enough to strategize upon.1 point
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Also a 1600+ player shouldn't complain about their civ too much in A25. Yes the civs are not balanced but unless your enemy spams certain OP units, you should have a fair chance at winning. There are unit strategies that are suitable for each civ.1 point
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Mission 10 is now converted to a25 as well -- The Sacking of Thebes. You get to sack the city of Thebes which rebelled against Macedonian rule. But first, you must destroy its farms and storehouses, secure the blessing of the nearby temples and ideally, find siege equipment to help break through the city's defenses. As you make progress, reinforcements will arrive to help you with the task. If anyone wants to contribute to the design of the city itself, please let me know. There is definitely room for improvement (you'd just need to keep roughly the same number of towers and fortresses).1 point
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I said leans towards, not is You probably won't find an alpha thats more playable than 0AD, even plenty beta's get released in worst states and probably even fully released games. Besides adding new broken and unbalanced features/updates is something that released tripple A games do all the time. Not saying that should be the standard but it's just for comparison. The meaning of "released", "alpha" and "beta" definitely shifted alot with early access being a popular thing to do nowadays.1 point
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Question for discussion: Why should the "Balance Team" have any say in what features get added to the game? Isn't it their duty to balance the features the team decide to add? That's not to say Balance team members can't participate in gameplay feature discussions. But those are two different roles. You can't come into a gameplay feature discussion and then derail it with constant balance concerns. You have to go into a feature discussion with a mind toward expanding the game's features in good faith. My latest discussions on Phabricator have had a few mentions of balance, but all-in-all have been a fruitful discussion about making the gameplay feature work. The exact statistics can always be decided later through gameplay experience and with input from Balancers. Again, Features and Balance are linked in the end, but they are 2 different things. You add the former, then try to do the latter. If it can't be balanced, then the feature can be removed, but you can't know a feature's balance until it's tried.1 point
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https://vk.com/id387122112 https://pikabu.ru/story/skifyi_khudozhnik_evgeniy_kray_4740059 https://vk.com/albums-200974731 point
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I like but, but same hero is tough because it requires everyone to be the same civ. Same class could work but it a little tricky because some hero’s are ele which most civs don’t have and then there are other hero’s that are something other civs don’t have, but I suppose you could unmount cav heroes or make other similar adjustments. And there is also the fact that some heroes of the same class type are very good while others are basically worthless after the first five minutes. this all goes back to how the game isn’t fully built yet and there are large swaths that need to be improved if a random game mode like nomad is ever going to pretend to be fair. With all that said, the easiest solution is also the most obvious here: let players chose their hero at the start1 point
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@wowgetoffyourcellphone @Genava55 would they have used quilted cloth, just like in the concept above?1 point
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If you look at the forum history, the people who were loudest about the a24 being imbalanced were the same people who said a24 was bland and uniform louder than anyone else and they did so from the very start. If anything, it was the casual players who received a24 best, but that also came to pass and I am not here trying to point fingers. And if you look at the ongoing conversations in the balancing community, most concern how we can (re)introduce aspects of the game that lost in a24 or have never been developed. For example, look at the threads @wowgetoffyourcellphone posted where he and I had several productive conversations that hopefully will materialize into new, balanced features that will make everyone happy. Saying "people who care about balance make the game boring" is wrong and unproductive. People who care about balance can also care about it being interesting, fun, and dynamic. People who care about balance simply want new features to be balanced in addition to being new.1 point
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My favorite way to play regicide is to go nomad but not give enough resources for a cc. Then it’s just a fight to the death.1 point
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That is true, but imbalances are a natural part of the process, so it is unavoidable in some ways. The biggest issue, in my opinion, isn't that the game can become imbalanced, but that once it does, patches and fixes will only roll out 6-8months later. I'm somewhat aware of the hurdles of changing compiled code, but still can't understand why smaller changes (like numerical tweaks in the template .xml files) can't be updated more regularly, especially since theses changes can be easily modded. This way we wouldn't be so afraid of imbalances, since they could be fixed after a few weeks of discussion.1 point
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Personally the house walling concept is something I dislike; they take away the idea of using other structures for defence like... walls. I think that a soft way of punishing that sort of tactic would be to allow a town phase technology that allows infantry to set buildings on fire. If they are too close together, the fire would spread, but I digress. Walling with buildings is nothing new to RTS games. What we want to think about is ways of providing more nuance. Another thing blacksmith adjacency could do is award experience to units trained from nearby barracks. Honestly there are so many cool, thematic synergies that have remained unexplored that could add some much needed spice to the economic/base building side of the game.1 point
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Hello @user1 My lobby user name: draane Offending player: sebastion_2402 In a rated game, left without resigning when he was about to be defeated. commands.txt1 point
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