Feedbacks from A26 SVN tests

[chrstgtr]

I still don't see the problem with the Mace bonus. I just checked in a single player game and without any prior trading the baseline trade value is 100:98. So the mace player actually loses 2 res by trading. Sure, other players can cause the value of res to result in above 100:>100 trades, but that can happen for any civ and when that does happen the opportunity to arbitrage will quickly disappear. 

[Old Roman]

In A26 I've noticed that certain maps like Gaudalquivir River with shallow water, the dead bodies are showing up in the water with a light square background.  It disappears when the bodies do.

[Stan`]

@vladislavbelov

[real_tabasco_sauce]

On 21/03/2022 at 1:45 PM, chrstgtr said:

I still don't see the problem with the Mace bonus. I just checked in a single player game and without any prior trading the baseline trade value is 100:98. So the mace player actually loses 2 res by trading. Sure, other players can cause the value of res to result in above 100:>100 trades, but that can happen for any civ and when that does happen the opportunity to arbitrage will quickly disappear.

You must not have seen the video in this discussion.

The res generated can be done by one player alone and in vast quantities. It is the most exploitable with mace. This is very different than simply observing that 100 wood gets you 164 stone (because of other players) and making the most of that trade/

[real_tabasco_sauce]

@chrstgtr Im sure you could try this once or twice and see how busted it is. Especially for 1v1s:

take mace

rush p2

build stables and all eco on wood for houses

generate metal and therefore infinite champs.

[chrstgtr]

56 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

You must not have seen the video in this discussion.

The res generated can be done by one player alone and in vast quantities. It is the most exploitable with mace. This is very different than simply observing that 100 wood gets you 164 stone (because of other players) and making the most of that trade/

Thanks. I see it now. I didn't see it before because I was trading 100 back and forth. That results in net 0 res creation. trading 200 back and forth also creates net 0 res creation. (Note, that while the total amount of res stays flat, the amount of individual res can increase or decrease--effectively allowing mace to trade any res for any other res. Maybe that needs to be revised, but that isn't what's at discussion)

The problem begins to develop occur when you trade 300 res back and forth (and it seems to get worse as you trade higher amounts back and forth, at least for a little while).

I don't think this is a problem with Mace as much as it is a problem with general trading functions. I suspect this means that players should always trade larger amounts of res because the "value" is greater with the larger amount that you trade. That doesn't seem right and seems to say "you'll get better value if you flood the market with unwanted res." This should be visited, and I suspect such a revisiting will fix the "Mace" problem. 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

7 hours ago, chrstgtr said:

This should be visited, and I suspect such a revisiting will fix the "Mace" problem. 

yes I agree, but there was some consideration that the mace team bonus should be changed to avert the problem (since mace is the fastest to generate res with faster exponential growth). I don't know how many people abuse it tbh, but in a 1v1 it could be very bad. I guess in TGs, it would be fairly obvious if someone was heavily relying on it and specs could also see the abuse.

definitely better to try and fix the root cause.

Edited March 28, 2022 by real_tabasco_sauce

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I think the root problem should be looked into, but in the meantime (this alpha) a different team bonus should be decided.

 

Basically 2 choices I see:

1. Some kind of metal trickle, keeping the same name, "Standardized Currency."

2. Some kind of Siege bonus. "Mechanical Innovation" or something.

 

It would be very good to nail this down quickly.

 

[Old Roman]

Latest SVN update produced a frozen game with constant error stream when map appeared.

Decided to be bold and revert both 26844 and 26843 (added may 1st) and errors disappeared.

 

Windows 10

[vladislavbelov]

36 minutes ago, Old Roman said:

Latest SVN update produced a frozen game with constant error stream when map appeared.

Decided to be bold and revert both 26844 and 26843 (added may 1st) and errors disappeared.

 

Windows 10

It should be fixed in rP26845.

[nwtour]

Deep freeze interface on button "Download mods" in window "Mods" on clean profile

 

Bisect commit https://code.wildfiregames.com/rP26522

Edited May 1, 2022 by nwtour

[Old Roman]

You probably already know but in rev 26906 the game is running but the screen is solid black except for the silhouettes of my troops standing near buildings and trees.  The minimap is fine as well as the building and soldiers screens.

 

As an aside, to fulfill my daily fix(es) I fired up A25 again, and I was shocked by the primitive feel and absence of all the QOL features I been experiencing with the SVN version of A26 the past few months.

(Windows 10)

[Stan`]

12 minutes ago, Old Roman said:

You probably already know but in rev 26906 the game is running but the screen is solid black except for the silhouettes of my troops standing near buildings and trees.  The minimap is fine as well as the building and soldiers screens.

 

As an aside, to fulfill my daily fix(es) I fired up A25 again, and I was shocked by the primitive feel and absence of all the QOL features I been experiencing with the SVN version of A26 the past few months.

(Windows 10)

Might need an auto build  C++ Try again tomorrow

[Stan`]

On 08/03/2022 at 8:08 AM, andy5995 said:

@Stan`So how do I make that change to the pmp files in the cm2 mod??

https://code.wildfiregames.com/P268

[andy5995]

At git commit e0898f7c879269cf8f13004c4bb462520ad2c384

Had some problems repairing ships. Several times the ships were touching the shoreline, but when I ordered units to repair, they just approached the ships but didn't do any repairs. I selected some units again, ordered them to repair, and still they didn't repair.

 

Also on 2 separate ocassions, had some script warnings or errors in the game console. I forgot to record them later, but maybe these are what they were (from mainlog.html)

 

208554-<p>Net server: Received message CEndCommandBatchMessage { m_Turn: 26129, m_TurnLength: 0 } of size 9 from [69D7E100...]</p>
208555-<p>Net server: Received message CSyncCheckMessage { m_Turn: 26126, m_Hash: \u00b1\u00c3\u00da\u008f\u00f4\u00dc\u0081\u00f2:\u00a1P\u00f9\u00da>H\u00ca } of size 27 from [69D7E100...]</p>
208556-<p>Net server: Received message CEndCommandBatchMessage { m_Turn: 26127, m_TurnLength: 0 } of size 9 from [97B1E81C...]</p>
208557-<p>Net: Sending message CEndCommandBatchMessage { m_Turn: 26127, m_TurnLength: 200 } of size 9 to [97B1E81C...]</p>
208558-<p>Net: Sending message CEndCommandBatchMessage { m_Turn: 26127, m_TurnLength: 200 } of size 9 to [69D7E100...]</p>
208559:<p class="error">ERROR: JavaScript error: simulation/components/Formation.js line 931
208560-Script value conversion check failed: v.isString() || v.isNumber() || v.isBoolean() (got type undefined)
208561-  Formation.prototype.ComputeMotionParameters@simulation/components/Formation.js:931:16
208562-  Formation.prototype.AddMembers@simulation/components/Formation.js:449:7
208563-  Formation.prototype.ShapeUpdate@simulation/components/Formation.js:973:8
208564-  Timer.prototype.OnUpdate@simulation/components/Timer.js:139:44</p>
208565:<p class="error">ERROR: Script message handler OnUpdate failed</p>
208566-<p>Net server: Received message CSyncCheckMessage { m_Turn: 26124, m_Hash: \u00f3O+3\u00d0#j\u00b7\u008f\u00d7\u00ea\u00d33\u00a7\u0016\u00c1 } of size 27 from [97B1E81C...]</p>
208567-<p>Net client: Received message CEndCommandBatchMessage { m_Turn: 26127, m_TurnLength: 200 } of size 9 from server</p>
208568-<p>Net server: Received message CEndCommandBatchMessage { m_Turn: 26130, m_TurnLength: 0 } of size 9 from [69D7E100...]</p>
208569-<p>Net server: Received message CSyncCheckMessage { m_Turn: 26127, m_Hash: Mj\u00f85\u00a30\u00db\u0084\u00d6Zt\u0003b\u0000\u00c1\b } of size 27 from [69D7E100...]</p>
208570-<p>Net server: Received message CEndCommandBatchMessage { m_Turn: 26128, m_TurnLength: 0 } of size 9 from [97B1E81C...]</p>
--
214084-<p>Loaded config string "sound.notify.gamesetup.join" = "true"</p>
214085-<p>Loaded config string "userreport.enabledversion" = "0"</p>
214086-<p>Loaded config string "userreport.id"</p>
214087-<p>Loaded config string "watereffects" = "true"</p>
214088-<p>Shutting down profiler2 GPU mode</p>
214089:<p>Engine exited successfully on 2022-06-21 at 15:31:14 with 214034 message(s), 2 error(s) and 0 warning(s).</p>

 

Are there any other files that game console errors are recorded?

 

commands.txt metadata.json

[Stan`]

@wraitii, @Freagarach

[Freagarach]

Thanks for the reports, I'm looking into it.

12 hours ago, andy5995 said:

Are there any other files that game console errors are recorded?

The interestinglog.html would only show the errors.

Can you reproduce without the mods?

[Freagarach]

Fixed in r26993.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

On 29/03/2022 at 1:10 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I think the root problem should be looked into, but in the meantime (this alpha) a different team bonus should be decided.

 

Basically 2 choices I see:

1. Some kind of metal trickle, keeping the same name, "Standardized Currency."

2. Some kind of Siege bonus. "Mechanical Innovation" or something.

 

It would be very good to nail this down quickly.

 

3 months later... Did we resolve the Macedonian bonus problem?

[Stan`]

Did we wow, did we

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

6 minutes ago, Stan` said:

Did we wow, did we

Good. Good.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

14 minutes ago, Stan` said:

Did we wow, did we

@chrstgtr @LetswaveaBook @borg-@real_tabasco_sauce

 

Macedonian team bonus ideas:

 

 

Mechanical Innovation

• Player and allies' Siege Weapons and Arsenals -25% build time and cost.
• Easy to implement.

 

or

 

Standardized Currency

• Allies gain a free +1 metal/second resource trickle from each of their Markets.
• A little more involved to implement, but doesn't need any new component code.

 

or both (can nerf them both a little)

Edited July 1, 2022 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[chrstgtr]

11 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

@chrstgtr @LetswaveaBook @borg-@real_tabasco_sauce

 

Macedonian team bonus ideas:

 

 

Mechanical Innovation

• Player and allies' Siege Weapons and Arsenals -25% build time and cost.
• Easy to implement.

 

or

 

Standardized Currency

• Allies gain a free +1 metal/second resource trickle from each of their Markets.
• A little more involved to implement, but doesn't need any new component code.

 

or both (can nerf them both a little)

The Mechanical Innovation sounds good.

Standardized Currency seems very weak. 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, chrstgtr said:

The Mechanical Innovation sounds good.

 

Cool.

 

1 hour ago, chrstgtr said:

Standardized Currency seems very weak. 

It wouldn't be too strong if it started from the beginning?  Figured it would be.

[chrstgtr]

23 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

It wouldn't be too strong if it started from the beginning?  Figured it would be.

Maybe--I'd have to do the math to see. The metal trickle idea came up somewhere else recently. I'm not a fan. Metal is tricky because the res isn't very helpful in early game and is only helpful late game in large amounts. An injection of metal in the middle game, though, can provide a strong one-time eco tech boost that can push a player pretty far ahead. So the bonus is either a very good one-time boost because it allows you to get the p2 eco techs immediately after phasing OR it provides too little metal in late game (or too much of a useless resource in early game).

I think a more direct and balanced way to provide a metal bonus would be to provide a discount of something like a 10% metal discount on techs (and/or soldiers).