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Please make it a little less ... sexist


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6 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

What if the Romans discovered black powder?

What if the Spartans were bodybuilders fighting naked like in 300?

What if this is a pandora box full of nonsenses that knows no end?

Maybe you are simply lacking any motivation about history, thats why you are missing the point.

So those "what if" that you mention are nonsense, but it's not nonsense to ask "What if the Britons had fought the Kushites, who would win?"

And I'm saying that you have no criterion for distinguishing one set of questions from the other. The only explanation for resisting mixed armies of males and females would be either 1) that there's a conspiracy of cultural Marxists that want to brainwash you subliminally by inserting "political" content into your games, or 2) We're all just a bunch of stupid people, according to Hanlon's razor, and we stupidly want to introduce "political" content into your game.

I say that's bullsh!t.

Edited by m7600
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11 minutes ago, m7600 said:

How about Britons fighting Zapotecs, if the latter get introduced to the main game?

If the Zapotecs are introduced, it is mandatory they could fight each other. It would be stup*d to forbid one faction to face another. Limiting the game like this would result in a backslash from the community. Thats the difference between self-whacking about fantasies  and reality. Nobody planned the Britons to face the Kushites, it simply happen because each of them have good reasons to be included in the game on their own.

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Just now, Genava55 said:

Limiting the game like this would result in a backslash from the community. Thats the difference between self-whacking about fantasies  and reality

So, a fallacy is what constitutes the difference. Are you familiar with the fallacy of appeal to the majority, also known as argumentum ad populum?

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3 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

In the end, it will be the majority that decides and you will be disappointed. 

And what if, in the next few years, the majority decides that they want female fighters and mixed armies of males and females? Then what, you would accept it? Because judging by how society is nowadays, as someone else said in this thread, it is very likely that it will happen at some point.

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Just now, m7600 said:

And what if, in the next few yeras, the majority decides that they want female fighters and mixed armies of males and females? Then what, you would accept it? Because judging by how society is nowadays, as some else said in this thread, it is very likely that it will happen at some point.

Accept it yes. I am Swiss, I am used to live in a real democracy. Support it no. 

But you can come back for this day, if you happen to be still around in a few years.

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Just now, Genava55 said:

Accept it yes. I am Swiss, I am used to live in a real democracy. Support it no. 

Basing your opinions on an argumentum ad populum fallacy is not a real democracy, that's demagoguery. And you shouldn't play the Swiss card here either, Switzerland wasn't exactly "democratic" by not choosing sides in WW2, for example.

Majorities can be wrong. That goes for the community of 0 AD as well as for any other community.

 

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4 minutes ago, m7600 said:

Majorities can be wrong. That goes for the community of 0 AD as well as for any other community.

White knights too.

4 minutes ago, m7600 said:

And you shouldn't play the Swiss card here either, Switzerland wasn't exactly "democratic" by not choosing sides in WW2, for example.

Rofl. This is so dumb I won't reply.

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1 minute ago, Genava55 said:

White knights too.

What's a white knight? I don't know what that is. Is that your secret word for "evil supervillain cultural Marxist that wants to brainwash me with politics?"

 

2 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

Rofl. This is so dumb I won't reply.

 Then why did you say that you're Swiss and that you live in a "real democracy" to begin with?

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1 minute ago, m7600 said:

What's a white knight? I don't know what that is. Is that your secret word for "evil supervillain cultural Marxist that wants to brainwash me with politics?"

People thinking they are moral zealots. You actually proved this is your motivation by implying there is a wrong and a right opinion.

2 minutes ago, m7600 said:

Then why did you say that you're Swiss and that you live in a "real democracy" to begin with?

In Switzerland we vote regularly and about numerous things (like laws) and we are used to see the majority not following our own personal view. That's all. 

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3 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

People thinking they are moral zealots. You actually proved this is your motivation by implying there is a wrong and a right opinion.

There is a wrong and right opinion. If you say that the Earth is flat, you're wrong. If you say that it's round, you're right. Period.

If you say that you have a non-arbitrary criterion for including some historical inaccuracies in 0 AD but not others, you're wrong. Period.

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Could there have been black Roman soldiers? Yes, but they would have been rare. Would it make sense to include a super rare black legionnaire or auxiliary variant? Yeah, it could make sense. It would be a nice little detail. It just takes someone with motivation to add such a variant (texture, actor work). Is it a bad thing that they have not yet been included? No. You can't expect an historical game to include every outlier imaginable. 

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3 hours ago, m7600 said:

If you say that the Earth is flat, you're wrong.

Actually, the earth is flat on every infinitesimal point on it.

That said, please, @Genava55 and @m7600 keep it polite and don't attack eachother on this argument. You don't agree on this point but you both still love the game (and eachother <3 ).

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7 hours ago, m7600 said:

There is a wrong and right opinion. If you say that the Earth is flat, you're wrong. If you say that it's round, you're right. Period.

That the Earth isn't flat is a fact, not an opinion. Your opinion about it can be wrong or right like you said.

Another example, a gender biased society during ancient times and across multiple civilizations is a fact. Your opinion about it can be wrong or right in regards to this fact.

Portraying differently the society in 0AD is a choice. Your opinion cannot be right or wrong in regards to a fact. 

7 hours ago, m7600 said:

If you say that you have a non-arbitrary criterion for including some historical inaccuracies in 0 AD but not others, you're wrong. Period.

It is easy to critizise when you are not trying to formulate a criterion yourself. You are simply saying the game has inaccuracies and you follow by asking for further inaccuracies. This is a logical loop and there is no criterion in your formulation to bound it. When I gave you nonsense examples like what if the Romans had black powder, it sounded illogical to you. But at no point you were able to formulate a criterion to explain why it sounds illogical. That's the issue with your reasoning and your whole demonstration trying to say there is no absolute rule we follow. Your reasoning and arguments are a pandora's box by itself because you can apply it to any suggestions.

Edited by Genava55
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3 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Could there have been black Roman soldiers? Yes, but they would have been rare.

For any Principate or Dominate factions that could come in the future, it could be considered. Because it is grounded by historical evidences. However, if we want to portray each civ in a multi-ethnic fashion, it wouldn't be grounded by historical evidences. And this is similar to the gender neutral for the whole roster suggestion. No evidences and purely cosmetic.

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@m7600 come on just drop it. For most of us, it's not desirable to play a game with historical factions displaying clear politically correct revisionism. If you like the idea though, you can make a mod. It could even be MP compatible. So you get all the FUN you want.

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The fact that women have a farming bonus is an abstract projection of historical agriculture being female specialized. You can't frame that abstract concept as concrete and claim the game is portraying every single women as a farmer. The same goes for almost all of the points highlighted on the top of this thread.

You could lose that abstraction and actually design a game around with concrete identities, but as of now, the discussion is moot.

It's the same reason why realistic time cannot be used in RTS games, and time is also abstracted away, which is why I cringe when someone suggests adding day and night cycles. Do you know how weird and stupid it would make the game when you add concrete timeflow.

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5 hours ago, Genava55 said:

It is easy to critizise when you are not trying to formulate a criterion yourself.

Several people proposed to incorporate the two gender citizen mod, and I see no problem with that, not even historically. So incorporate that. Or are you against that as well?

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3 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

I replied there.

Alright, then we've reached the end of this discussion. Now @Yekaterina's elephant mod should get accepted, but that's a different topic, so maybe she can start a thread for discussing that.

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