Carltonus

Since there will be more than one type of cavalry archer for the Parthians, think this should be high time to implement the camel stench aura like in Delenda Est. Suggest that the unarmored cavalry (axeman, skirmisher, archer, and camel archer) can be recruited from the Corral, like the Xiongnu faction, while the cataphracts from the Stable (a City Phase building). The Persian Kardakes hoplite, Persian archer, and camel cataphracts from the Fortress. Had the Parthians actually recruited Roman mercenaries? Thought Rome was one of their traditional enemies. If not, the embassy can hire a Pontic phalangite alongside the Parthohellenic theurophoros swordsman and Hindu war elephants. Expecting at least 7 champions for the Parthian faction. Does the Spanish mean the trader (camel) the same stats as a Maurya elephant? Or there will be elephants as mode of transporting goods? Here is my proposed breakdown (slight modified from @Duileoga's above, and friendly for non-Spanish speakers): City Center Persian spearman Parthian archer Cavalry skirmisher Cavalry spearman? (Town phase) Camel archer? Barracks/Training Ground Persian spearman Eastern hillman (axeman) Parthian archer Corral Cavalry axeman Cavalry spearman? Cavalry skirmisher Cavalry archer Camel archer? Stable Cavalry spearman Cavalry archer Cataphract lancer Cataphract archer Embassy (or swordsman and phalangite go to Barracks in City Phase, elephant in Fortress) Parthohellenic theurophoros swordsman Pontic phalangite Hindu war elephant Fortress Persian Kardakes hoplite Persian archer? Camel cataphract (lancer) Which one of these can be the champion spearman? There's already the Parthohellenic swordsman, so the latter will suffice.

Philip's cuirass matches well with his helmet. You know, classical-era soldiers equipped with a thureos may be considered anachronistic. They are more suited to a later Macedonian faction such as the Antigonids. Suggest that the black cloaks and Odrysians replace their shields with peltai? In the same manner, the thorakites with hypaspist swordsmen or the related. Consider it a temporary measure until some kind of weapon-switching system is in place.

@MrLux, having been looking at the progress of the wonder once in a while, it looks impressive. Are the trees and shrubs intended to be part of the wonder, or they will be removed when the finished product is ready?

@Nescio, in my opinion, the wearing of one greave is somewhat unconventional in battle, probably for show-off at peacetime, and a Latin tradition. Greeks, likely out of date range of this game. Maybe one-greave soldiers (especially with intricate designs) can be a rare occurrence, like in 1 out of 10? Gladiators may be an exception.

@Genava55, pardon the bytes: The frescoes depict what appears to be potential "hoplites"/spearmen, a skirmisher, and a swordsman. Are these all Lucanians, or some are from other Italic tribes (Samnites, etc.)? That is, if there are proposals for Syracuse faction, some other Magna Graecia (sub)faction, or an Auxilia system (by biome, or embassies) can be added for the Romans. Maybe for Epirotes. A few of such units from Total War Rome II: Native Lucanian Warriors (champion or mercenary swordsmen): https://www.honga.net/totalwar/rome2/unit.php?l=en&v=rome2&f=inv_rome&u=inv_local_lucanian_warriors The best image of them I can find. Mercenary Brutti Veterans (champion? skirmishers): https://www.honga.net/totalwar/rome2/unit.php?l=en&v=rome2&f=&u=inv_mercenary_brutti_veterans

We'll continue the discussion on the Spartan hero(es) and units when @wowgetoffyourcellphone creates a separate Spartans thread. If he doesn't want to split them into two factions (which would've made Pausinias a third/forth for the traditional and Nabis a second/third on the reform), might as well put Nabis as a fifth. Other than that, Agis III only has the 1000 health bonus in vanilla, while Leonidas has an aura bonus for hoplites around him, which of course makes almost little difference which hoplite hero to take. In my opinion, Spartan heroes should all be hoplites or, in the case of Lysander/possible fifth hero, at least a xiphos and aspis. Rome II has the Spartan general unit hoplites. Checked the GitHub code and found out Hannibal has an upgrade to ride Surus. Why not also give him the option (hidden in the hero card) of riding a horse, since Surus was probably attested only around the Second Punic War (and never heard again after that)? A second choice of speed or power. Good for father-son and brothers-in-law scenarios.

A few suggestions: The Reform pair upgrades should be removed, like in @borg-'s mod, so the Romanized Thorakites can only available to Antiochus IV. Any thoughts for mercenary/champion swordsmen if you choose the other two? Visualization for the Parade of Daphne (if you want to add/make a change for some units): If you want, there can be a second elephant unit, an un-barded tower one, which costs food, wood, and coins, and extremely vulnerable to javelineers. Then the armored war elephant can add metal to the cost.

I don't remember generating such a map, but I did edit and play-test the Macedonian campaign by @SciGuy42. After that, I played a game of Corinthian Isthmus (4 players), forgetting to reveal the whole map, and for a while commanded my AI ally's hoplites. Crash happened sometime around when my other AI opponents were trying to penetrate my walls for a second time. Was able to use the save option a few times until warnings appeared that forbade me to save further. commands.txt

Just another one today. userreport_hwdetect.txt crashlog.dmp crashlog.txt interestinglog.html mainlog.html system_info.txt

If not perioikoi (dwellers around), one other option is the symmachoi (allied [Greeks]), which connotes most likely non-Spartans. Probably mercenaries as well. Since you said "citizen-soldier", the ambiguity between perioikoi and Spartiates begins to appear. Might as well make the phalangites Spartiates, and the champion thorakitai phalangitai (link is for the Antigonid faction). Other options have to be kept open. Here are all the available hoplites and phalangites for the Spartan faction in the Divide et Impera mod that might help you. At least one non-Skiritai hoplite unit still needs to be intact, or that hoplite/spearman unit can be an symmachoi that replaces the already-existing Pelopponesian Hoplite mercenary. What do you think?

Using Alt while dragging works for the grass, but rubble_rome_sb (the destroyed Roman camp) still cannot be selected. Is this a bug?

I can edit the scenario maps now. Very nice. But there is one more thing missing: how do I delete already-placed actors? The destroyed Roman camp in the first campaign has to go, and the grass models need to move.

To be historically fair, the Silver Shield hypaspists upgrade should be exclusive to Alexander (and optionally, whenever a Maurya or some other Hindu faction is in play). The Somatophylakes (royal bodyguards) upgrade should be exclusive to both Philip and Alexander (maybe Demetrius?). These can be some of the hidden upgrades in the faction. I wholly admit that in Total War: Rome II the separation of perioikoi and Spartan phalangite is most likely not historically accurate, and is exclusive from the game. The Divide et Impera mod kind of fixed that historical error with only one kind of pikemen for the faction: Neohomoioi Phalangitai. Mea culpa. So the hoplites are still mandatory, but their gear should be "updated" to Hellenistic times. If you have any alternatives and/or more additions/revisions to the reformed Spartans, let me know. A separate (sub-)faction would've been better, since at least two more heroes (Agis IV, Nabis, you name them) can be implemented with this.

The downloaded maps still cannot be opened in Atlas. After clicking open, there is a selection of maps (Skirmish, Scenarios, Tutorials) based on the C:\Users\[username]\AppData\Local\0 A.D. alpha\binaries\data\mods\public\public.zip folder. How to make it open maps from anywhere? The Trac article never tells that procedure.

What I mean is, @Stan` and @SciGuy42, are there instructions to open downloaded map(s)? Since I can't do that on a vanilla game and Atlas, which opens the ones on the public .zip folder. Trac doesn't give much. Not registered to GitHub, and might not want to. Could post the finished product(s) here.

These maps seem to be needing some visual improvements. Does anyone know how to edit these scenario maps? The Trac article on the Atlas Editor doesn't mention such steps. Hope it doesn't affect the trigger(s).

That would require the creation of a second Athenian faction (Pelopponesian Wars era), since an Alcibiades actor has to be made. @av93, @fatherbushido, @Genava55, and @wowgetoffyourcellphone: have you all reached a consensus? My preceding proposal(s) could have some improvement.

I don't recall in the history of classical Athens hiring mercenaries from the other end of the Mediterranean, but nice try. The alternative of mercenary Thracians wielding rhomphaia makes more sense. Armor or gear can be the same for the peltasts. The issue, @Ultimate Aurelian, is fixing the anachronisms of two classical-era factions (6th-4th century BC) regarding champion units (from the deprecating Royal Stoa) wielding ~3rd century BC thureos shields: the skirmishers (javelineers) and one or two swordsmen. Such units go to a Reform/Hellenistic (sub-)faction if one is willing to create a modification. Have methods such as CTRL+click or icon in the HUD interface already tried for secondary weapon attack in the past?

OK, here's the proposed breakdown for the next alpha: Athenians Since we already have a champion swordsman (Athenian Marine) from the port, the swordsman can either be a mercenary Thracian, citizen hoplite, or champion hoplite. Barracks Athenian Hoplite - citizen hoplite + Athenian Hoplite? - citizen swordsman, either by switching or separate recruitment Psiloi - citizen slinger Thracian Peltast - Thracian mercenary javelineer + Rhomphaiaphoros - Thracian mercenary swordsman (not champion as the deprecating Stoa, but like the Seleucid counterpart, replaces Black Cloak) Gymnasium Epilektos - champion hoplite + Epilektos? - champion swordsman, either by switching or separate recruitment (replaces Thorakites) + Iphicratean Akontistes/Light Peltast - champion javelineer (replaces already-existing Theurophoros) Scythian Archer - champion archer Spartans Barracks Perioikoi Hoplite - citizen hoplite + Perioikoi Hoplite? - citizen swordsman (replaces already exisitng Rhomphaiaphoros) Helot Skirmisher - "citizen" javelineer (akontistes) (Helot Slinger and/or Archer - "citizen" slinger/archer, optional, but some modifications have slingers) Skiritai Commando - elite citizen swordsman + Skiritai Peltast - elite citizen javelineer (replaces already-exisiting Theurophoros) Syssition Spartiatis - champion hoplite + Spartiatis? - champion swordsman (replaces already-existing Thorakites) If the new proposed swordsmen be hoplites, they should also assume the phalanx position as if they wielded spears. The other option is that the hoplites (citizen, epilektos, Spartan) can change from dory to xiphos so they can be swordsmen, and switch back to dory if needed. Make the switching for citizen hoplites require Town Phase or a Town Phase upgrade from the Barracks if you want.

If I recall correctly, the next alpha will have the Thracian Black Cloak exclusive to the Macedonians, and the Royal Stoa deprecated. Since the Athenian and Spartan factions are still based on the classical era, here are my suggestions regarding replacements for the Stoa mercenaries: The Athenian champion skirmishers could be like in the images below: The helmets could be replaced with the ones on the former, and the thureos shield could be replaced with a rounder pelte on the latter. The Athenian version of the Black Cloaks can be replaced with generic mercenary Thracian swordsmen like the Seleucids. For the Spartans, the champion skirmishers can also be Skiritai (Ekdromos?) with a small round shield; like this image below (but lose the anachronistic Hellenistic gear): If there are no alternatives, the mercenary swordsman can also be generic Thracian. Until secondary weapons can be a thing, I don't think there is an alternative for the Thorakites except if you want to add a separate Spartiate Hoplite swordsman. How about Spartan Youths (in Total War: Rome II)? If implemented, it can be a champion hoplite with the statistics of a Naked Fanatic. There should be a way to toggle between Classical and Hellenistic/Reformed as sub-factions of some sort.

@Nescio could help with the passages from Herodotus, Plato, and Plutarch, if that might help you. Are you planning to split the Athenian faction into two or three factions (by era) as well?

To make things simpler, let us first discuss about the units, namely: Carthaginian champion pikeman Gastraphetes (belly bow) Bactrian horse archer Arstibara (Apple bearers) Nubian mercenary archer Imperial legionnaire and centurion Spartan Pikeman (or Reformed Phalangite) Theban champions: Sacred Band hoplite and Thespian Black Cloak swordsman (Printscreen image(s) will be here after an edit or two) The Carthaginian pikeman is found on the "Egypt" skirmish map. Was this unit trainable in a previous alpha, and are there plans to re-introduce this unit in the future? Same goes to the Bactrian horse archer (already in modifications). The apple bearers appear to be a deprecated unit, replaced by the anusiya (Persian Immortal). Same question as above. If I recall correctly, the Gastraphetes is going to be implemented in the next alpha as a siege unit for the Macedonians. Nubian mercenary archers can be found in the "Egypt" skirmish map if playing the Ptolemies. Was this also a remnant from a previous alpha? The Imperial legionnaire and centurion can be found in the "Egypt" skirmish map if playing the Romans. If you let a Marian legionnaire gain some experience in "Gallic Fields", he might promote into the former. Other than that, these two are best preferred to be in a late Republic faction or in Empires Beseiged. The Spartan pikeman is best used in a separate Reformed Spartans faction (in a future release, alongside with other new Hellenistic factions). Theban Sacred Band hoplites can be found in the "Peloponnesean Wars" scenario map when playing as Thebes. Other than in Delenda Est, is the Theban faction going to be part of the family in a future release?

This is for discussion and suggestions regarding unused entities, units, etc. in Atlas since Alpha 23. If there is already an existing thread or threads regarding this, please refer me to such. Good to know that stables and siege workshops are going to be standard in Alpha 24. In order in the list of entities: Campaign folders are for entities in campaign "maps" not intended to on played on like a normal game. Celtic hut and longhouse remnants from previous alphas. Make them equal to houses? Desert trading post models are the same as the Persian market ones. Fences (the long, short, and stone) are select-able and attack-able. Hellenic Epic Temple, despite being in an skirmish map (Greek Acropolis?), is basically a modified Parthenon acting as a large Temple. Hellenic Proplyea (entrance to a temple), suggest making it garrison-able if it serves no other purpose. Palisade angle spikes should not have rubble when destroyed, should be able to take many hits from spears and arrows, and should be easily vulnerable to swords, axes, and crushing attacks. How about making them anti-cavalry stakes? Wooden Watchtower can be garrisoned by one unit or small siege engine. Small spikes can be like caltrops, dealing damage to any units going through. Tall spikes can be barricades. Corinthian (Seleucid) colonnade. Table (both rectangle and square variants) Default fishing boats, trading ships, and biremes should be added, not just triremes. Babylonian defense tower should be for the Aristea mod unless any scenario has them for a reason. Outposts may need to be unique models for every faction, current one can be put for one faction/civilization or in the "other" folder if generic. Melonas (rotary mill) is going to be deprecated, suggest a use for Millenium A.D. factions (Anglo Saxons, Carolingians)? Does the next alpha allows upgrading Carthaginian houses into apartments? Borg's mod already does this. Carthaginian embassy (the large one), suggest that it can hire all seven mercenaries from the three embassies. Carthaginian small wall gate is the same as the palisade's Tophet, the other Carthaginian temple. Persian apartment block, found in "Egypt" skirmish map, suggest that it can be like Delenda Est's insula, built in the City phase and housing many. Persian houses A and B also found in "Egypt" skirmish map, suggest that can be built in the Town phase. Persian inn, remnant from a previous alpha. Persian tačara can function like the apadana (palace), summoning hero and anusiya. Where can you find the texture and/or model for the lighthouse in the 4-player "Corinthian Isthmus" map? Different texture than the buildable Ptolemaic one. Temple of Mars also found on Egypt skirmish map. Tent (tabernaculum) can be built by Roman citizen soldiers, and can be transferred like yurts for only food (carried by donkey or horse-drawn cart). Roman Triumphal arch also found on Egypt skirmish map. Imperial Roman special building for Empires Besieged? Spartan gerontía/gerousia (senate?) should be like the Athenian prythaneon. Currently only Leonidas can be trained, why not the other two heroes and some upgrades? Found in an old tutorial from a previous alpha. Athenian gastraphetes currently uses the Scythian archer portrait. Xenophon should be a cavalry swordsman hero. Boudicca's cavalry javelineer and infantry swordsman forms. Carthaginian champion pikemen, also found on Egypt skirmish map. Arstibara (apple bearers), probably the same stats as (and right clicking the icon shows) the anusiya. Persian champion cavalry archer currently has same portrait as the champion cavalry spearman. Some mods correct this. Ptolemaic Nubian mercenary archer. Roman imperial legionnaire and centurion are also in Egypt map. Marian legionnaires can be found in Gallic Fields map, takes experience to promote to imperial legionnaire. Roman onagers do not pack. Delenda Est kind of fixes this problem. Spartan pikeman. Delenda Est has a trainable version of this unit. Theban Fire Raiser, Sacred Band Hoplite, and Thespian swordsman are in Delenda Est, but the Sacred Band Hoplite is also found in the Pelopponesian Wars scenario map.