Leaderboard

@real_tabasco_sauce I think basically every map with water should have a bunch of fish unless there is some compelling reason not to. Compelling reasons include: (1) the water is extremely easy to defend and cannot be rushed (e.g., marsh rhinelands, which has tiny ponds that can be easily defended with a CC, towers, etc) and (2) a strategic reason why you don't want to encourage fishing (e.g., oasis, which already emphasizes control of the central water). Otherwise, I think fishing should be a compelling option anytime there is water.

Small update, improved performance a bit using caching (the first call will be slow, but the rest will be fast) Fixed searching for player names breaking the background menu Fixed searching for players in local ratings being case sensitive. Added CPT (commands per turn) chart We now have 643 replays

Just for the record I've added @ffm2's idea to replay pallas locally. Wanted to go live today but I forgot to push Still need to tweak some settings as the graphs are quite crowded.

I figure we should have a discussion so that players know what certain macros and automation mods look like. This way there is hopefully less superstition, and more awareness. I think it helps for hosts to know what to look for instead of relying on "hackusations". This is the progui autotrainer: 20241104-1713-04.6220386.mp4 Notice the end where the player gets housed, production and attempts to produce immediately cease. Basically well-distributed large batches of the highest size are produced as long as there is pop space. The unit composition is also very even. This shouldn't be confused with well timed batches, which are possible with one or two barracks, but not possible to do this consistently.

Well that is to a certain point always going to happen in a historical game like this; players will be introduced to new concepts that might sometimes confuse them at first. There are already a few civilizations that are not very well known, or different from the stereotypes some people might have (IE Ptolemies instead of more stereotypical Egyptians like in RTW, Romans in the vanilla game based on the Republic).

@Samulis any chance you could cook up a ram ship sound? I'm thinking like an oar stroke into a big crash, with a little debris falling loosely into water afterwards.

Well, there's a difference between tutorial campaigns and ordinary campaigns, no? The purpose of the first is to present the game's most characterising content while the purpose of the second one is to offer something new and outlandish. That being said, I believe your proposal has good potential and would indeed bring improvements in some ways. However, it would require a revamp of the game's design and vision - something that should only be done with great caution. Not to mention the huge amounts of effort required to implement it. And the concept should be discussed in a separate thread.

Imagine caring about Quickstart and making some drama about it. Still remember that game where i sent you 200 resources at start and then I crushed you. You r brain just got on the path to seek excuses for our level difference. No 7 resources gain from Quickstart is going to make any differences. I disable Quickstart in chrstgr host when i think about it. If you can't stand the 'unfair advantage' just fcking download the mod at once, it's not even form me so you can feel good about this; If you have so much fun setting the rally points fast fast at game start, then good for you, why would you jealous me then?

A problem 0ad has faced for a long time is that of overshooting. Since the range of a unit's target is checked after attack completion, as long as the target was in range then, ANY attack afterwards will work. This is not so noticeable in many cases, but for slow attacking units in particular, enemy units can travel a long way in that time, leading to things like this: Untitled video - Made with Clipchamp (3).mp4 Also, this problem is very clear with siege units, which have a slow fire rate, and crossbow units. In @ValihrAnt's recent video, you can see that ram ships are annoyingly able to damage units that are far away, resulting in chaotic and unpredictable gameplay. What I propose to fix this is 2 additional range checks that occur during the unit's repeat time. https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/pulls/7178 This doesn't completely solve the problem, but it greatly reduces it to where it is basically unnoticeable for pikemen: 20241103-1845-03.6204650.mp4 The additional range checks do slightly impact performance, but its actually less than I expected: After the recent improvements to performance, I think we can "spend" some performance cost for nice things like this. Players, would you accept a small performance cost like this in order to get more responsive and intuitive gameplay? If not, I could limit this to slow-firing units which are the biggest offenders. However, I do think faster firing units stand to gain from this even if the problems are not as noticeable for these units.

So my understanding is that the attack spread is how accurate a unit is at hitting the target and the higher the number ie spread of 20 is a lot less accurate than a spread of 2. Is this correct? What exactly does the spread = ? within x distance of target? I've been playing around with the files a little creating a mod based off of community mod. Generally speaking I feel like the further the range, the less accurate. If you are trying to hit something 60 meters away, its harder than hitting something 30 meters away. So I figured the spread should be higher for longer ranged units, ie archers higher than slingers/xbows, higher than javs. But then I realized jsut cause they have a logner range, doesnt mean they are always reaching that max range. if 30 is low end of the max ranged units and they are all trying to hit somethign 20 meters away what should be more accurate, a bow and arrow, someone slinging a tiny rock or a jav? Also would make sense to me that the equivalent unit mounted would be slightly less accurate than its infantry counterpart. Anyone able to help explain how accuracy works in this game and what the spread means? Also feel free to disagree as to wether further distance should = less accuracy and answer the question at the same distance which weapon would be more accurate? Thanks!

I think I see your complaint, @Genava55. You're worried that using the Cimbrian wars to set up the "Germans" civ closes the door to the later germans. I'm afraid that's true for the current version, but nothing is ever set completely in stone. I think it would be reasonable for some content to represent post cimbrian war germans, setting up what players would probably expect as "Germans" like you said earlier. I'm not sure what that would look like or how it would work, but I'd be fine with it conceptually. It just has to make gameplay sense. Could change a hero, wonder. for now though, I think we should solidify what we have already done so we can get it over the finish line.

Persian: "Am I a joke to you?" For reference, Saint Nicholas was from Asia Minor, so him looking Persian isn't the worst idea.

Frankly, I don't think Atrik will hide his mod and continue using it. There are several advantages to having that information in the gamesteup. Not only to warn that someone is using an unwanted mod (although that can be breached). But also to check the compatibility of the mods, to avoid oos and disconnections. As I said, we should try another approach and try to build trust

Please visualize combining Proposals 2 and 3 with reactive checking of replays for mods that offer an advantage. Whether we trust the report of mods in use by a user during gamesetup depends on whether the user is trustworthy. That can be determined over time. "Trust, but verify," is a good motto in my opinion.

Phabricator is no longer used. It's mostly readonly. You should use Gitea instead on gitea.wildfiregames.com

But I don't think we should sacrifice that aspect. I just think that if we're going to have a Germanic faction, we might as well think about how it can include as many things as possible and be complete. I don't think we should leave out the people involved in the Gallic War. I also think we should include the wars with the Roman Empire and I even think we should include the late elements that correspond to the time when Germanic culture was at its most mature and richest. I don't think the Romans and Hellenes should be the only ones to have reforms in the game. I think that, with a bit of imagination, you could easily represent the two or three periods of Germanic history within the same faction. I can still understand separating the Goths, because they weren't called Germans by the ancients. But for the rest, it's a shame to miss out on all their history. The Britons has never been called Gauls. It is even not certain the ancients viewed them as Celtic. And their material culture is indeed different from the Gauls. There is no evidence for any weapon in the Suebian sphere before the very late phase of the Republic and early Roman Empire. No evidence. They practiced a form of cremated burials and they didn't put any weapons in their grave. The Jastorf culture is particularly sober in this regard. In Jutland, there are both evidence of local weapons (one-edged blades) and imported weapons from the Celtic sphere. In a similar situation, the Przeworsk culture practiced a form of cremated burials but in their case, they did add weapons in the burials. In their case, there is also a mixture of local weapons (one-edged blades) and Celtic weapons. The Przeworsk culture is probably the most Celtized culture. The Poienesti-Lukashevka culture who established itself in Moldova and seems to be related to the Bastarnae, included Celtic weapons in their burials too. And when the Suebian sphere started to add weapons in their graves, with the Großromstedt horizon/culture, it included Celtic weapons too. The Celtic sword was basically the Kalashnikov of the ancient time, you find it everywhere. But it doesn't mean the Cimbri were more Celtized than the Suebi. Celtic items were found in the Suebian sphere, simply it was not weapons. It is mostly fibula, arm-rings, collars and belt pieces. Here La Tène B (380-260 BC) finds outside of the La Tène sphere: A significant part of Germany was maybe populated with Celts we didn't know much about but the area of the middle Elbe was not Celtic obviously.

Using continuous cavalry production through p1, p2, p3 to overwhelm a clean player's multitasking abilities. This does not perform nearly as well without progui because both players are on an even field in terms of multitasking, and you even avoid doing it when progui is turned off. One thing you do better without progui is build houses in time. This is because you are actually aware of your production rate when you dont use progui. Isn't that remarkable.

It’s never the right answer to say “if you are unhappy with other players having an advantage, get that advantage instead of complaining” the bottom line is host should 1) know what mods players are using 2) be allowed to ban the use of cheats without retribution or briefing, and 3) some tools in game setup would be great for helping identify mods, prohibiting unsigned mods, and/or only allowing a user-determined list of mods. @Stan` I like the idea of using a script in replay pallas, would it be done on upload to flag replays or something users can run if they like?

At least making mods visible would give all players better access to that information, instead of everyone gradually finding out when someone mentions it or says someone else is using a mod. Sure, there will be cheaters who manage to disguise their mods somehow, but it’s better than nothing. And giving an important part of the community some kind of response (even if it's not perfect) is important. The same argument can be applied to the smart queue in proGUI. Throughout the various debates on this topic, some of us have tried to discuss it respectfully, but it never seems to get anywhere. The benefits of automation are obvious. The advantages of Quickstart are hardly noticeable in the long term, but they still serve as a good example of the perks of automation. However, the benefits of smarttrain are clearly significant. And you always end up arguing that you're just as good without the mod enabled. But we don’t need a scientific study to reach a consensus that most players might experience significant downtime in their barracks due to the fast-paced nature of the game during intense moments. I agree that we need to find appropriate ways to address this issue. Personally, I haven’t liked how some players have approached it, and I don’t think the solution is to attack @Atrik or players who use the mod. But I also recognize that the situation is quite frustrating because every time we get back into this debate, Atrik ends up saying that smart train doesn’t offer any advantage, that it’s just a GUI improvement, and we end up right back where we started instead of making progress. Given the challenging conditions under which this project is being developed and the few hands available to work on it, it would be good if we tried to resolve our differences, take responsibility for our contribution to this conflict, try to build trust, and strengthen collective work.

Hmm yeah i did look there, but i am tech nub. Is it possible to try and break it down into layman's terms Comparable to actual examples.. Thanks!

The problem is that it's not a campaign. It's a playable faction. In themselves, the Cimbri are an interesting part of the story. But I think it's reductive to represent the Germans solely with them. And I think players are going to ask questions. Especially casual players. Maybe I'm wrong. But I think we're spoiling a faction that could have been a nice surprise for players. Call them Germans, publish them and let's see what happens. In any case, our players are used to this kind of things.

I don't understand what exactly you are talking about, you have rules in your hosts that I follow. And I've never insulted @chrstgtr in game/lobby for banning me from his room as @hyperion is assuming. I remember. I just asked for explanations on the reason of the ban. The only times I maybe did insult @chrstgtr it was on the forum after he was twisting my words to unreasonable extent.

If you're on Windows, you can test the nightly build. You can also help translate the game :)

This could be a basic starting point for the setting area of this feature and I think u could use same new gear icon with different background colour to notify the host about some issue in the mods setup and a new column could be added to that window.

Basically yes. This is a good analogy. Choosing between a city-state, a tribe or something else, with the idea that it's part of a strategy. In some cases it can be very specialized and in other cases a bit more general.

NoOvershoot.zip A mod for a27. You can apply this if you get the nightly build.

Ok, then maybe players will learn about something before armenius and the famous battle of teutoberg forest. Maybe their pre-conceived ideas on what the civ should look like will be challenged. I think that would be fine, no?

Many players only know Arminius for the early period. It was a national hero. Netflix recently made a series about him. Arminius is closer to the timeframe than Boudicca. So yeah, players don't know the look of the Germans. But they know a few things about the Germans.

Sure, if I can! I know this proposal would help for a lot of things others then just the transparency benefits. Too often some players crash or oos for having known (by the community) conflicting mods, outdated map mods (listed as compatible) etc..

@guerringuerrin @Philip the Swaggerless @chrstgtr @roscany @ValihrAnt @BreakfastBurrito_007 @Dizaka @SaidRdz @ffm2 @Norse_Harold @PistolPetethoughts on more fish for these water maps?

Santa Klaus unit. I understand that Iranian tribes wear outfits like that, but... it doesn't look that Persian.

That's great news! Looking forward to it!

This is interesting. I would like to hear what @Stockfishhas to say about it before anyone jumps to conclusions.

I've been playing with the script a bit more. Some user recomended me to check a suspicious game between borg_ and stockfish. Here we see the attack commands (not queued). Stockfish has a time between turn 5300 and 5400 where he reaches over 20 commands in a turn multiple time while borg_ never gets over 4. Looking at these commands in the file one sees: turn 5325 200 cmd 1 {"type":"leave-turret","entities":[]} cmd 1 {"type":"unload-all","garrisonHolders":[150,2374,2740,2883,2923,3057,3140,3229,3351]} cmd 1 {"type":"leave-turret","entities":[]} cmd 1 {"type":"unload-all","garrisonHolders":[150,2374,2740,2883,2923,3057,3140,3229,3351]} cmd 1 {"type":"leave-turret","entities":[]} cmd 1 {"type":"unload-all","garrisonHolders":[150,2374,2740,2883,2923,3057,3140,3229,3351]} cmd 1 {"type":"leave-turret","entities":[]} cmd 1 {"type":"unload-all","garrisonHolders":[150,2374,2740,2883,2923,3057,3140,3229,3351]} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2472,2483,2533,2701,2732,2735,2749,2781,2790,2806,2815,2825,2826,2846,2847,2848,2849,2851,2852,2853,2864,2872,2873,2874,2875,2876,2889,2896,2897,2912,2947,2960,2971,2973,2975,2977,2985,2995,2997,3022,3029,3030,3031,3032,3034,3035,3036,3040,3042,3055,3068,3069,3071,3083,3084,3085,3088,3100,3105,3120,3122,3123,3134,3145,3160,3171,3181,3193,3200,3209,3214,3223,3224,3226,3227,3245,3247,3254,3281,3287,3292,3294,3308,3309,3311,3313,3314,3316,3329,3330,3331,3346,3347,3348,3360,3361,3363,3365,3366,3367,3373,3376,3379,3390,3391,3392,3393,3421,3422,3425,3429,3431,3435,3440,3444,3445,3451,3467,3468,3469,3471,3509],"target":2963,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2472],"target":2963,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2483],"target":2963,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2533],"target":2963,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2701],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2732],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2735],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2749],"target":2446,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2781],"target":3050,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2790],"target":3050,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2806],"target":3050,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2815],"target":3050,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2825],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2826],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2846],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2847],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2848],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2849],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2851],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2852],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2853],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2864],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2872],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2873],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2874],"target":3342,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2875],"target":3050,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2876],"target":3050,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2889],"target":2446,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2896],"target":2446,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2897],"target":2446,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2912],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2947],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2960],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2971],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2973],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2975],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2977],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2985],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2995],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[2997],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3022],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3029],"target":2963,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack-walk","entities":[3030],"x":535.4337768554688,"z":222.9183349609375,"targetClasses":{"attack":["Unit","Structure"]},"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack-walk","entities":[3031],"x":535.2202758789062,"z":222.64129638671875,"targetClasses":{"attack":["Unit","Structure"]},"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack-walk","entities":[3032],"x":535.2202758789062,"z":222.64129638671875,"targetClasses":{"attack":["Unit","Structure"]},"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack-walk","entities":[3034],"x":535.2202758789062,"z":222.64129638671875,"targetClasses":{"attack":["Unit","Structure"]},"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack-walk","entities":[3035],"x":535.2202758789062,"z":222.64129638671875,"targetClasses":{"attack":["Unit","Structure"]},"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack-walk","entities":[3036],"x":535.2202758789062,"z":222.64129638671875,"targetClasses":{"attack":["Unit","Structure"]},"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack-walk","entities":[3040],"x":535.3624267578125,"z":222.36502075195312,"targetClasses":{"attack":["Unit","Structure"]},"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack-walk","entities":[3042],"x":535.3624267578125,"z":222.36502075195312,"targetClasses":{"attack":["Unit","Structure"]},"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3055],"target":3015,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3068],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3069],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3071],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3083],"target":3234,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3084],"target":2446,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3085],"target":3050,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3088],"target":3183,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3100],"target":3183,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3105],"target":2385,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3120],"target":2545,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3122],"target":3475,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3123],"target":3475,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3134],"target":3475,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3145],"target":3475,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3160],"target":3475,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3171],"target":3475,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3181],"target":3475,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} cmd 2 {"type":"attack","entities":[3193],"target":3475,"queued":false,"pushFront":false,"allowCapture":false,"formation":"special/formations/null"} end So stockfish gives each unit there a individual command. Not as a group. Each command he would need to select the unit and select the target if I'm not mistaken. And the first 3 attack the same target. He'd rather select 3 units individually and attack one target instead of selecting them to a group. The game is from: https://replay-pallas.wildfiregames.ovh/Replays/ReplayDetails/9E145F4901E161F4 load_replay.py

You know, we could just put a kernel level anticheat... Maybe that'd help...

That's what https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/issues/7166 would solve. In my opinion cheating is degrading the user experience way more than giving hosts the option to disable unsigned mods. We're not talking about a single mod here. Such a change would prevent all unreviewed and unsigned mods to be used, if the host of a game decides so. There are for examples instructions on the internet to create mods just meant for blatant cheating. The first post in this thread proves the opposite. You can only enforce something you know about and the use of certain mods is not known to other players.

All parties in the know = not cheating Using it secretly = cheating Is it that complicated?

@RangerK The idea that the proGUI smart train offers no advantage over the original vanilla autoqueue is false. The vanilla production system stops when there are no resources available. The proGUI system automatically adjusts production based on available resources and houses. And it does this instantly while you can be busy in battle or whatever else. You don't even have to think about batch size based on barracks. The system does everything on its own. You set the ratio you want in your army (ranged/melee, etc.) and the mod produces on its own. You can even set an amount of resources you don't want to be spend. It's fantastic. You only have to worry about houses. If you run out of available houses, as soon as you build a new one the system automatically starts producing units. And calculate the batch size to produce per barrack. Instantly. It gives you freedom to do other tasks without worrying about production in a much more efficient way than the original system. It is not, by any means, a simple aesthetic/GUI improvement. We can argue whether this is cheating or not, whether vanilla gameplay should be like this, whether it is more or less fun, or fair. I consider many of the mod's contributions very valuable but to say that it offers no advantages is ridiculous. Just try it by yourself and you will see.

Don't be confused because some consider it not cheating. It is very clear cheating. It disables game penalties: In game auto-batching gets disabled when the player don't have the resources. It's not on pause (like proGUI) because the programmers lack the capability to program it otherwise, it is a draw back to use this automated way. Do that in the dedicated place, hand in the patches and wait for the next alpha. The topic here is cheating. You can discuss new features for future versions else where. You disable penalties for yourself while playing with players that have these enabled in their game. I had games recently, after the game I get mocked "lol, ffm only 60 kills". I check the replay and see the opponent was a proGUI user. Other games I get a clear win with a ally over decent players, check the replay and see my ally uses proGUI. Also I happen to play in rounds with known cheaters, because the host tolerates it and the better players are already there. The motivation for the cheaters I assume is because they can join rounds of better players and compete with them. The easiest way to identify cheating with proGUI is the quickstart part. It sends 7 commands in one turn, at about turn 12. cmd 6 {"type":"set-rallypoint","entities":[400],"x":200.843017578125,"z":647.5227661132812,"data":{"command":"gather","resourceType":{"generic":"food","specific":"fruit"},"resourceTemplate":"gaia/fruit/berry_01","target":419},"queued":false} cmd 6 {"type":"unload-template","all":true,"template":"template_unit_support_female_citizen","owner":6,"garrisonHolders":[400]} cmd 6 {"type":"set-rallypoint","entities":[400],"x":208.0706787109375,"z":558.1127319335938,"data":{"command":"gather","resourceType":{"generic":"wood","specific":"tree"},"resourceTemplate":"gaia/tree/oak_hungarian","target":411},"queued":false} cmd 6 {"type":"unload-template","all":true,"template":"units/rome/infantry_swordsman_b","owner":6,"garrisonHolders":[400]} cmd 6 {"type":"unload-template","all":true,"template":"units/rome/infantry_javelineer_b","owner":6,"garrisonHolders":[400]} cmd 6 {"type":"set-rallypoint","entities":[400],"x":168.57574462890625,"z":588.1920776367188,"data":{"command":"gather","resourceType":{"generic":"food","specific":"meat"},"resourceTemplate":"gaia/fauna_chicken","target":425},"queued":false} cmd 6 {"type":"unload-template","all":true,"template":"units/rome/cavalry_spearman_b","owner":6,"garrisonHolders":[400]} A mod that warn users in game about a amount of commands that is beyond the best player (plus a threshold) could be a idea. But I don't know where to start with it at the moment. Hardening the game against abuse is one front to fight. But this is absolutely ridiculous to defend and pretend "is it really a cheat if a 1200 player don't win 10 out of 10 vs a 1800 elo player", "it's just a few commands at the start". It's another thing that the cheats are so easy available, widely used and pretended it wouldn't be a cheat.

Unless they are trolls messing up other people's lives, but that is so pointless, senseless. It's like stealing unnecessarily. There is a psychology of pleasure in winning by cheating. https://www.webmd.com/balance/ss/slideshow-competition-win#:~:text=Your desire to win could,reward area of your brain. https://www.madmonq.gg/dopamine-control-for-gamers/

Yeah, like decency and basic courtesy. Call me old and conservative.

I don't do MP and I don't use any mods. Of course anyone can play the game how they like, but when playing against others I consider it poor sportsmanship if they don't make their use of mods transparent and consider anything but purely GUI cheating. I think ProGUI does this sending off units in three directions simultaneously and automating the batches; if the other players try to hide the use of that mod it's cheating. Don't know if you have any other recourse than just not playing with them anymore.

When I tried to play a scenario in the Atlas editor, it crashed suddenly with this message: /usr/src/debug/wxwidgets/wxWidgets/src/unix/utilsx11.cpp(2645): assert ""Assert failure"" failed in wxGetKeyStateGTK(): Unsupported key 314, the only supported ones are: Ctrl, Alt, Shift, Caps Lock, Num Lock and Scroll Lock for GTK 3.18+ /usr/bin/0ad: line 9: 6857 Trace/breakpoint trap (core dumped) "$pyrogenesis" "$@"