made a discord for competitive 0ad matchmaking/finding people to play with https://discord.gg/2q9mj9Bue2

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

I am wondering if damage buff in the 5-10% range for archers and slingers, combined with proper adjustments to run speed for things that would otherwise be problematic is enough?

Is there an RC3 or would I need to figure out a build to test the charging mechanic?

[Stan`]

5 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

Is there an RC3 or would I need to figure out a build to test the charging mechanic?

It should happen in RC2 if you use formations. I'm working on RC3

[Yekaterina]

8 hours ago, PyrrhicVictoryGuy said:

nah just tweak the javelineers a bit, make them specialized in bringing down units with smaller shield like pikemen .

If we remove the running speed everything will be fine. However, I feel like we are off-topic. Start a new thread about charging mechanism?

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:

If we remove the running speed everything will be fine. However, I feel like we are off-topic. Start a new thread about charging mechanism?

Perhaps but I'm very skeptical about "adding" cogs to a machine that isn't fine tuned yet. 

[vinme]

thoughts on the dancing fix while retaining retreat and micro capabilities via proportional changes to turn speed in relation to move speed?

thereby cav having slower turn speed/direction change speed than lets say javelineers ect. pikes having the fastest turn speed.

im kind of scared btw reading this thread about how ill be amazed at the atrocities in a25 XD hope im proven wrong.
how many ppl even play single player? is there a point to focusing on them? single player shouldnt really matter all that much in terms of balancing even if things are like 20% off who cares playing vs an ai.

perhaps there should be a min skill level for balancing advisors? just a thought 

 

[Stan`]

Well given the current lobby activity and the fact we had 300k downloads on mac and windows last year and linux users are 50% (so 600k in total) of our user base I suppose they aren't playing MP.

8 hours ago, vinme said:

perhaps there should be a min skill level for balancing advisors? just a thought 

Well there was, and you got A24, and now we opened it more.

[LetswaveaBook]

@vinme The fact that we don't know Many single players, doesn't mean that they are a small minority.

Also if we serve single players well, they might become more active and that could strengthen the community.

[vinme]

20 hours ago, Stan` said:

Well given the current lobby activity and the fact we had 300k downloads on mac and windows last year and linux users are 50% (so 600k in total) of our user base I suppose they aren't playing MP.

Well there was, and you got A24, and now we opened it more.

300k?600k? really? no way.
that is literally impossible that only 1/3000th of players(lets say every other guy who gets it doenst play) plays multiplayer regularly more or less.

are you guys getting ddosed via download requests? 
it would be quite enlightening to everyone if in a25 there was a "survey" element installed in menu asking players to take a voluntary survey so that would make things clear.

didnt mean that single player players dont matter because theres a few of them btw i mean that single player isnt really all that demanding on precise balance so they can be ignored in terms of "turn speed" or whatever else.

cant believe that players of verified rating didnt grasp the concept of not making camels more op in a24 XD.
idk what rating limitation should be but i think given such few players are on the higher level such as only 10 or so are 1900+ and that rating doenst directly translate into game understanding any more than being a strongman makes one a human anatomy expert this leads me to think that it shouldnt be too strict.

also like 10% at best from the total pool will wanna participate most likely altho higher level players who are most active are more likely to i mean in general.

so in general more competent enough ppl you have that their input and interference wont be counterproductive the better.

(1500-1600)+ lets say seems fair given there are like 100 people 1600+ and far far more 1500+ but letting rly low rated players balance seems pointless if they dont even intuitively understand the general mechanic of the game as a whole as well as individual factors.

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by vinme

[Stan`]

6 hours ago, vinme said:

300k?600k? really? no way.
that is literally impossible that only 1/3000th of players(lets say every other guy who gets it doenst play) plays multiplayer regularly more or less.

http://releases.wildfiregames.com/stats.php?type=year&date=2020-01-01

6 hours ago, vinme said:

it would be quite enlightening to everyone if in a25 there was a "survey" element installed in menu asking players to take a voluntary survey so that would make things clear.

https://mobile.twitter.com/play0ad/status/1367918331827789832

[Freagarach]

7 hours ago, vinme said:

single player isnt really all that demanding on precise balance so they can be ignored in terms of "turn speed" or whatever else

Regarding balance: Probably. But keep in mind that some changes also have a visual element or immersion consequence. In this case a turn speed which is slow enough to be noticable made the game more immersive for quite some Single Player players.

[smiley]

7 hours ago, vinme said:

300k?600k? really? no way.

That's not surprising. Download counts are no where near active user counts. For the true user count, you would need telemetry, but who cares, this isn't corporate software.

[vinme]

16 hours ago, Stan` said:

http://releases.wildfiregames.com/stats.php?type=year&date=2020-01-01

https://mobile.twitter.com/play0ad/status/1367918331827789832

never doubted that download counts were fake.

i believe the stats but seems suspicious af to me.

so theres already feedback element? NICE! should be really easy to add a player survey element to it.

 

[vinme]

15 hours ago, smiley said:

That's not surprising. Download counts are no where near active user counts. For the true user count, you would need telemetry, but who cares, this isn't corporate software.

still isnt it insane and literally unbelievable that often theres literally 10 ppl in lobby and generally like 40? something along thoes lines sometimes going upto 100 while htere are literally over half a million downloads?

[Stan`]

It's very possible that people avoid the lobby (because

1) it can be toxic

2) Kids under 13 are not allowed there without parental approval (COPPA)

3) the lobby is hard to find in the ui for some people

4) They prefer playing in Lan with friends.

4 hours ago, vinme said:

so theres already feedback element? NICE! should be really easy to add a player survey element to it.

It has to be anonymous so it's complex legally.

[alre]

5) they are not used to games with a MP lobby. It's a rare feat nowadays.

[Gurken Khan]

6) The login fails and they give up

[nani]

7) Is not promoted

[Stan`]

7 minutes ago, nani said:

7) Is not promoted

Do you think we should have a "Did you know? there is a mp lobby" social media posts

[Gurken Khan]

29 minutes ago, Stan` said:

Do you think we should have a "Did you know? there is a mp lobby" social media posts

Yes, and and a loading screen tip.

[nani]

38 minutes ago, Stan` said:

Do you think we should have a "Did you know? there is a mp lobby" social media posts

Yeah, and also on the same theme, having the probably most used buttons "single-player match" and "multiplayer game lobby" as primary buttons (not children) would help visibility/usability

[chrstgtr]

On 21/07/2021 at 8:36 AM, Stan` said:

Well given the current lobby activity and the fact we had 300k downloads on mac and windows last year and linux users are 50% (so 600k in total) of our user base I suppose they aren't playing MP

Sure. But in all likelihood it also means they aren't playing SP either. We should not equate downloads with plays. Pointing to total downloads is a bad way to show interest in game, especially when half the observable players aren't sticking around and a large portion of old players have mostly left the game. In fact, the lobby has lately been filled with lots of transient players that come and quickly leave. This is indicative of the fact that lots of people are downloading and trying the game (as the large number of downloads shows). But it also indicates that players aren't playing the game for very long for whatever reason. We should not believe the popularity of MP has suddenly decreased when the only change has been a new alpha. In my opinion, this indicates that there is a problem with the current alpha. 

  

23 hours ago, LetswaveaBook said:

@vinme The fact that we don't know Many single players, doesn't mean that they are a small minority.

Also if we serve single players well, they might become more active and that could strengthen the community.

Of course, but we also sholdn't cater a game to a group of people that we don't even know exist outside of a couple dozen that are active on the forum.

Both can be served.  

Edited July 22, 2021 by chrstgtr

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

24 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

We should not believe the popularity of MP has suddenly decreased when the only change has been a new alpha. In my opinion, this indicates that there is a problem with the current alpha. 

 

I think many of the old players that had the patience to stick through the peak ddos era (through July-December) last year, finally gave up upon seeing what the gameplay of a24 was like. My hope is that some of those players will be impressed enough by alpha 25 to come back. A24 games are by and large predictable among other things, and some excitement and skill depth can attract more players to 1v1s and TGs on multiplayer.

[Stan`]

1 hour ago, nani said:

Yeah, and also on the same theme, having the probably most used buttons "single-player match" and "multiplayer game lobby" as primary buttons (not children) would help visibility/usability

There is a ticket by @Langbart IIRC.

1 hour ago, Gurken Khan said:

Yes, and and a loading screen tip.

Okay, I'll consider it then. For the tips it's pretty straightforward to add.

34 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

Of course, but we also sholdn't cater a game to a group of people that we don't even know exist outside of a couple dozen that are active on the forum.

Both can be served.  

Most of those I know including some of the youtubers actually don't get on the forums because they find it clikey not inclusive and sometimes toxic.

36 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

Sure. But in all likelihood it also means they aren't playing SP either. We should not equate downloads with plays. Pointing to total downloads is a bad way to show interest in game, especially when half the observable players aren't sticking around and a large portion of old players have mostly left the game. I

Sure not but if it's people you never saw on the lobby they might have played some other ways.

Some people miss the mods in A24 which were what was probably attracting them too.

So yeah it's really probable we can't keep people around. Because of lag and maybe balancing.

I hope A25 will be good enough to keep people around until A26.

[LetswaveaBook]

8) Ratings are nuts. If you are new and are looking for a similar opponent, you might run into a veteran who is 1200 simply because he never plays rated games. If you are 1400 you will nicely run into smurfs.

I had good RTS experience(I used to esimate myself to be in the top 10% online competitive age of Empires 2 players) and even lost 5 out of my first 6 games. I practised in SP first, challenged some 1200 players first and still had a rough start. However it is easy for me to imagine other people just quitting the game.

[chrstgtr]

59 minutes ago, Stan` said:

 

Most of those I know including some of the youtubers actually don't get on the forums because they find it clikey not inclusive and sometimes toxic.

Sure not but if it's people you never saw on the lobby they might have played some other ways.

Some people miss the mods in A24 which were what was probably attracting them too.

So yeah it's really probable we can't keep people around. Because of lag and maybe balancing.

I hope A25 will be good enough to keep people around until A26.

Yes. The takeaway is both can coexist and neither should be ignored. The best way to serve both is create an engaging game. When that is done both will stick around