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A25 Feedbacks from testing


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1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:

I build 2 blacksmith anyways to upgrade the infantry in time, before the first confrontation. But summoning the top players:

@LetswaveaBook @Player of 0AD @ValihrAnt @chrstgtr @borg- 

What do you think about the 3 town phase buildings? Should they all be different? 

 

 

I don't believe in unnecessarily limiting player choice. There are pros and cons of constructing each building (and not constructing each building). Let the players decide what they want and what strategy they want to use.

And for that matter, I would prefer there be no building requirements at all. If a player wants to go p3 with 20 pop, fine. If a player wants to rush p3 without a market, blacksmith or other p2 buildings, fine. If you want players to make more types of buildings then the buildings themselves should be more worthwhile. 

Besides there aren't enough buildings to force everyone to build different buildings. If that was required everyone would have 3 of 5 (or however many buildings are available) and everyone's build order/base would look very similar. 

Edited by chrstgtr
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Sorry, I didn't mean to challenge that they can be identical buildings. It's good if the hint is clear in this regard.

A bit OT:

If one has 2 blacksmiths (or any other 2 or even more identical buildings), does exploration of a new technology from these buildings progress faster than with only one? Would one have to select all of them before starting that exploration? Or is the "only" advantage of e.g. 2 or more blacksmiths that one can explore different technologies or upgrades in parallel?

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17 minutes ago, Ceres said:

Sorry, I didn't mean to challenge that they can be identical buildings. It's good if the hint is clear in this regard.

A bit OT:

If one has 2 blacksmiths (or any other 2 or even more identical buildings), does exploration of a new technology from these buildings progress faster than with only one? Would one have to select all of them before starting that exploration? Or is the "only" advantage of e.g. 2 or more blacksmiths that one can explore different technologies or upgrades in parallel?

At the moment it is just about parallel research. I don't think most players can afford to research techs at that rate if we give it a bonus. The only reason why I can afford this is because I have mined a lot of metal in village phase and can barter more using excess food or stone.

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How do you test a25? Do you compile the latest available code, or do you use the latest available automated builds (for Windows)? If the latter, how do you fetch the complete package? Where could I find more hints about these questions?

 

I had a look there but am unsure how to proceed:

https://trac.wildfiregames.com/browser/ps/trunk?rev=25719

How would I DL all the files that I need? (want to install/use them in parallel to my a24 installation, hopefully without any side effects, e.g. about the profile etc.)

 

(I am a bit reluctant to build, understanding that I might miss some late-breaking changes.)

Thank you! :)

Edited by Ceres
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5 minutes ago, Ceres said:

How do you test a25? Do you compile the latest available code, or do you use the latest available automated builds (for Windows)? If the latter, how do you fetch the complete package? Where could I find more hints about these questions?

 

For the particular case of A25 we're going to be providing test bundles soon (1-2 days at most)

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I had already compiled successfully with VS a few weeks ago, but it always is a hassle (for me :blush:).

 

EDIT:

What is your recommendation in a25 about healers in the sense of stance, formation, and moving orders? Should they have the same as the battling unit(s) they are accompanying? Is there a way to kind of "glue" them to these other units, so they always stand/walk/run with them irrespective of stance, formation, and moving orders? Or do you keep the healers in the second (or third) line, awaiting hurt units? Is there a command/stance that sends hurt units away from the foes? If yes, in which direction - just opposide or anywhere, where there is room? Or even back to healers (if available)? I understand that all this might be too fancy (and too much automatism - the human player should still have the power to decide), but maybe this is just a small idea for future discussions.

Edited by Ceres
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55 minutes ago, Ceres said:

Or do you keep the healers in the second (or third) line, awaiting hurt units?

Yes, I always facepalm when I see the healers healing each other while the army dies o when you send an attack order and all units including healers go to the front lines XD instead of healing position.

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On 04/06/2021 at 3:31 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

How good do you consider yourself creating new units?

 

I discovered that the Iberians are short of cavalry.

don't they still have the spearcav, javelin cav, and champion "fire-cav"?

I hope so. :I

+speaking of adding cavalry...... How about adding a spearcav unit to seleucids? :D.

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21 hours ago, chrstgtr said:

And for that matter, I would prefer there be no building requirements at all. If a player wants to go p3 with 20 pop, fine. If a player wants to rush p3 without a market, blacksmith or other p2 buildings, fine. If you want players to make more types of buildings then the buildings themselves should be more worthwhile. 

At first this seems outrageous, but is actually hella logical. This also opens up a bunch of possible strategies that are out of the envelope due to building constraints on going p2/p3.

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1 hour ago, nani said:

Yes, I always facepalm when I see the healers healing each other while the army dies o when you send an attack order and all units including healers go to the front lines XD instead of healing position.

Maybe they just have another interpretation of 'support' than your cowardly approach? ;)

(Still on a24) Today I just ordered my whole army to capture a CC, and the healers were doing some stupid running around the building, lol.

In general I think it's ok if they heal each other, but I'd wish they wouldn't run away while on aggressive stance and that they'd have some sense of priority when healing.

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54 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

At first this seems outrageous, but is actually hella logical. This also opens up a bunch of possible strategies that are out of the envelope due to building constraints on going p2/p3.

Expect a tsunami of rams pouring onto your cc at minute 5 ;)

 

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18 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

Expect a tsunami of rams pouring onto your cc at minute 5 ;)

Not really. Just think about the time it takes to go p3 from p1, even with instantaneous buildings, and infinite resources it would take you 1 minute and 20 seconds just to go p3. then 30 seconds for the first ram. It would be impossible to get 1 ram by minute 5 if you have 300 f 300 w 300 s 300 m starting res. Anyway, 1 ram at minute 5 is no problem, just use women to kill it. Just because you can get p3 early does not mean you can get a p3 eco early.

Also, people would see you phase up based upon the expansion of your territory, they would see the ram coming minutes in advance.

Edited by BreakfastBurrito_007
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1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:

Expect a tsunami of rams pouring onto your cc at minute 5 ;)

 

Maybe if you consider a "tsunami" to be 1 ram, 2 spears, 2 skirms, and 13 women, "pouring" to be a single wave, and "at minute 5" to mean around minute 7. If you can't defend against that then you bigger problems than how many p1 and p2 buildings are required for your enemy to go p3. If you don't build a proper base then you won't have the benefits that come along with it, including population cap space from houses, men from barracks, military upgrades from blacksmiths, trading ability from markets, etc.

 

Instead the current setup limits player strategy by forcing a specific build order. Just let players decide and the game will become far less predictable than it is now where I know every player builds a lot of houses, storehouses, and farms in p1, a market, blacksmith, and two other buildings in p2, and a siege factory in p3. 

Edited by chrstgtr
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1 minute ago, Yekaterina said:

Genuine problem: This is 2 rams, but overlapping onto each other. Please can we disable actor overlapping as you never know whether you are under attack by 1 ram or 10 rams merged into each other:
image.png.92e11fa206b69c081e9f932c83b2f469.png

This has been a problem for a while, and it can be a big problem because you can't gauge how many units you are being attacked by. Some players, especially Hanni, used to abuse this to conceal the fact that they have many bolts/cata. 

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15 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

Who is Hanni, and can you make a patch to disable this please?

No, I don't know how to do patches and lack any coding skills.

Hanni was Hannibal_Barca. He is a moderator in the multiplayer lobby. 

 

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@Ceresif you are using TortoiseSVN on windows just right-click on the svn root folder and"SVN Update" not with the GitHub repo though as the binary is not mirrored to it you have to do the compile with Visual Studio.

Enjoy the Choice :)

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Can have a few sources, but the problem is twofold:

- Unit pushing allows some overlap, though units in the same spot should push each other away in A25 (may/may not mitigate this)

- The rams are much bigger than their actual pathfinding size.

You can play with the settings in pathfinder.xml, but unfortunately increasing clearance doesn't work that well.

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56 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

@Stan` @wraitii how do you disable overlapping? Is this to do with model size and selection box?

Overlapping is a "bug" (sometimes is on purpose) and is determined by the pathfinder and the obstruction simulation. From what I've seen in alpha 25 svn units now overlap much more so the problem is worse in that aspect but on the other hand you now don't get the "congestion from hell" you usually get with big armies.

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