sphyrth Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 (edited) IMO Petra has matured enough to be a feisty player... I don't even know if I want to play him above Normal. Either that or I'm new to his new tactics, namely: Ignoring my defenses, and raiding my base's weakest points. Better battle micromanagement skills. (For example: He used part of his army to attack one side of my base, another part against my working units, and build his CC just in my frontlines all at the same time... I mean that's some risky/exciting player!) Great attack/defense coordination with allies... his diplomacy skills is my cherry on top. Makes me feel ashamed when I fail to help them when they're in danger. Other things that make the gameplay exciting. But this might be too overwhelming for a new player. I should know. I remember rage-quitting when I first tried this game (Alpha 16) and got consistently *beaten simply because of my strength differences with the AI. I suggest lowering the AI's default difficulty for new installs. Edited December 7, 2016 by sphyrth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niektb Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 I think that the AI difficulty maybe should be saved like the persist match settings do 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 I am relatively new to the game, After starting on "Easy" and promptly getting stomped, I went to "very easy" and got stomped again. After about 40 games in the sandbox, I was able to get back into "very easy" where I can now win consistently. The AI is extremely fast, I am always amazed at what it accomplishes in so short a time. It must be nice not to have to think but just calculate. I do not think it needs much adjusting though, just maybe a note in the 'how to play' section that recommends the sandbox for awhile. Now that I know somewhat how it thinks, I can act accordingly, but the early parts of the match are still pretty dicey. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morleron Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 I'm new to this game and am becoming a bit frustrated - not just because of the fact that the AI keeps kicking me around the block, but at the lack of what I consider to be basic documentation. For instance, what does the "alarm" function do, other than causing all the women to run for cover? Does it automatically mobilize garrison troops? send mobilized troops to the location of the enemy incursion? speed up the production of any military units in the production queues? I can't find any mention of alarms in the docs. Is there any way to put doors or gates in stone walls or palisades? As things stand it seems that it's impossible for units to collect resources on the "outside" of a wall and bring them back for use without leaving gaps in one's defences. I think the best thing to help we newbies would be to improve the docs. I volunteer to help with such an effort - just let me know how to go about it. All the above said, I think that 0AD stands a good chance of becoming a great game. The "bones" are definitely there. I'll help out however I can. Just my $.02, Ron 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphyrth Posted December 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) Nailed it. I prefer decent tutorials over lowering the default AI strength. They are quite scarce. And the team needs a muscle for this kind of task. Edited December 7, 2016 by sphyrth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shieldwolf23 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 My suggestion: combine both: tutorials and lowering default AI. The default AI should be an AI that would be very easy to beat (the one wherein a new player would just click target attack group/ AI base and win). Of course option to change the AI to the stronger AI for normal players would be there. This way, new players would not be too much frustrated. They can always "up the ante" when they feel they are good enough to defeat the "normal" AI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Quote I'm new to this game and am becoming a bit frustrated - not just because of the fact that the AI keeps kicking me around the block, but at the lack of what I consider to be basic documentation. Are videos in YouTube to improve your gameplay, for default the ai is standard you can change to easy or easiest. The game change a lot each alpha. For instance, what does the "alarm" function do, other than causing all the women to run for cover? Does it automatically mobilize garrison troops? send mobilized troops to the location of the enemy incursion? Its planned a button to call all troops in whole map. speed up the production of any military units in the production queues? I can't find any mention of alarms in the docs. Is there any way to put doors or gates in stone walls or palisades? select a segment and upgrade it. As things stand it seems that it's impossible for units to collect resources on the "outside" of a wall and bring them back for use without leaving gaps in one's defences. I think the best thing to help we newbies would be to improve the docs. I volunteer to help with such an effort - just let me know how to go about it. check developer area if you want be volunteer. All the above said, I think that 0AD stands a good chance of becoming a great game. The "bones" are definitely there. I'll help out however I can. Just my $.02, Ron sphyrth and shieldwolf23 like this Like this 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabio Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 A thing that annoyed me about the alarm feature was that units gets randomly garrisoned in buildings. And women in towers (and also in other military buildings?) cannot fire arrows (IIRC). Would be possible to prioritize garrisoning in a way to maximize defence, for example women in houses (both cannot fire arrows IIRC) while soldiers in military buildings? (Not sure if this still applies in latest release) About the AI: yup it is very strong! A trick that works with AI is to use towers, put them as soon as possible near the AI base and it would easily kill most of it workers walking around, in the meantime you can develop your economy and later attack in force without any hurry. This is probably not a fair way to play, it just spots a weak point of the AI (hint to improve it ), but you can easily win this way. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 On 01/12/2016 at 0:53 AM, Hog said: I am relatively new to the game, After starting on "Easy" and promptly getting stomped, I went to "very easy" and got stomped again. After about 40 games in the sandbox, I was able to get back into "very easy" where I can now win consistently. The AI is extremely fast, I am always amazed at what it accomplishes in so short a time. It must be nice not to have to think but just calculate. I do not think it needs much adjusting though, just maybe a note in the 'how to play' section that recommends the sandbox for awhile. Now that I know somewhat how it thinks, I can act accordingly, but the early parts of the match are still pretty dicey. I never had time to play on VeryEasy, so it would be interesting to know what you (retrospectively) found the major problems, so that we can see if some things need to be changed. You mentionned the fact that the AI is fast, do you mean to gather resources? it already has a gather speed penalty of 0.5, but it can still be decreased. Was it the size of the army it sent against you? It may be a bit easier by sending smaller armies (although they will be more frequent if we do not also change the gather rate). Or any other point to signal? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wraitii Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Honestly I think for very easy we should put it at 0.1 or 0.2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenknight32 Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) I finally got it installed, the AI doesn't seem that tough to me. Against medium difficulty, I had plenty of time to set up a line of defense towers before they attacked. I was out of practice, my efficiency not that good, I was expecting it to be worse. If a new player didn't think to build towers they might have a rough time, but it's not hard to figure out. Decent tutorials would be a nice improvement, though. Edited December 8, 2016 by greenknight32 more to say 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 I am not recommending a change, I was just surprised at how tough the medium levels were, but remember, i am new to the game and was learning as I go. In most other games I have played, starting on a medium or average setting was doable from the start. Even without knowing much about it. (Tombraider, Elder Scrolls, etc). The AI player is very fast at resource gathering and building, My daughter who just started to play, is having a rough time in sandbox mode. I think I managed to lose a few games there as well , mostly in the learning area. I still would feel pretty pressured in a medium setting, if those cavalry troops arrive before you are ready you are pretty much done. I am not playing it to play "against the game", as learning the particular defenses against the AI is not why I play. I am more interested in the strategy part. There are always 'tricks' to win when your objective is to beat the AI. In particular, I am using SunTzu strategies against what I hope to be fairly equal opponents (why isn't a Chinese faction here anyway? He was a famous general in this time period). I am suggesting a little more info up front explaining that newbies like me may want to start in sandbox mode before they attempt to jump right in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki1950 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 3 hours ago, Hog said: why isn't a Chinese faction here anyway? He was a famous general in this time period). Check out the Rise Of the East mod it adds the Han Chinese as a new faction with some historical architecture. Enjoy the Choice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feneur Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 9 hours ago, Hog said: I am suggesting a little more info up front explaining that newbies like me may want to start in sandbox mode before they attempt to jump right in. Not exactly sure where to put such info, on the welcome screen maybe? I'm not exactly sure what it should say though, some people might learn better if they lose a bunch of matches, while some want to try to learn how to gather/build/prepare under calmer circumstances. We do intend to have a learn-to-play campaign, so eventually that should be what we highlight for new players, but for now I'm not as sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunChleoc Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 I'd say that in sandbox mode, a player should have a fair chance even if they totally suck. I gave up playing FreeCiv pretty fast because guess what - I suck and the AI pwns me pretty fast. That's no fun. For those new players who don't suck, they can always pick the next hardest AI level. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nivekian Konsolate Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Maybe a sequential set of scenarios that teach new players? Maybe something with a story line like many other RTS games. I know it was the first thing I looked for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 1 hour ago, The Nivekian Konsolate said: Maybe a sequential set of scenarios that teach new players? Maybe something with a story line like many other RTS games. I know it was the first thing I looked for... In this stage is waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeXoR Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 3 hours ago, The Nivekian Konsolate said: Maybe a sequential set of scenarios that teach new players? Maybe something with a story line like many other RTS games. I know it was the first thing I looked for... Singleplayer campain support for modifications actually got some attention lately. That doesn't mean we will definitely add a single player campaign to the main game but we might. We definitely have a tutorial on our minds though it's not really clear for now what kind of tutorial it will be: Playable single player campaign like, some triggered standalone maps (there are some old ones present but they are not maintained and will not work out of the box so they are not shown by default) or just some tutorial videos. Have a nice stay 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 We barely start to do a structure for campaings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphyrth Posted January 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Outside of building and collecting resources, I can't think of a good way of creating scenarios that would teach new players about the game. Features getting put in, being revamped, removed, and drastic gameplay balances shifting all over the place after each Alpha makes scenarios obsolete almost immediately. Not to mention the devs HAVE TO re-train the AI accordingly as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nivekian Konsolate Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 Maybe more levels of ai would be an option then? Ones with set technology limits and/or targeting limits. Such as only attacking active military and not workers or only attacking buildings, maybe even specific ones. Maybe an ai that only builds defenses, or at least makes that the focus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 I would actualy like to see the AI have different "personalities" who are more likely to use one strategy over another. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeta1127 Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 The mass blob of units attacking when it feels like it has the numerical advantage, unless walls are involved, is definitely a little boring and repetitive. Formations will hopefully go a long way toward improving that aspect a bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphyrth Posted February 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 For example: When a Spartan in a Phalanx takes damage, it gets distributed among the guys in the formation instead of taking it individually. But suggesting anyhing about formations is getting waaay ahead of myself. But I'm waiting for the year that Petra's difficulty level will be based on his skill rather than his resource-gathering speed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeta1127 Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 Indeed, the day when I don't have to be so perfect with my timings for setting up resource gathering in the early game vs. Petra will be a great day. I played my first online match recently, since I haven't really had a PC capable of properly running 0 A.D. until recently. It was refreshing playing a Roman FFA on Tuscan Acropolis where I could sit back and relax a bit, and not have to worry so much about getting rushed immediately. I look forward to have a similar experience vs. Petra in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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