Suggestions for 0 A.D.

[Seleucids]

@Atrik @wowgetoffyourcellphoneI want to touch on the recent discussion regarding our development workflows and how best to align our modding efforts with the vanilla codebase. I have read through both of your points and really appreciate the nuance around resource allocation and reviewer availability. The reality is that there are definitely valid differences between the timelines for mods versus full game integration, particularly when it comes to compliance and QA scrutiny.

However, as we move forward on larger project deliverables, our goal is to streamline the process without sacrificing quality. I am proposing that we introduce weekly alignment sessions on Microsoft Teams to keep everyone synced with QA and product management. This would allow us to surface blockers earlier and ensure our technical direction remains aligned with the broader roadmap. Regarding the specific debate on mods versus pull requests, standardising our integration protocols can actually help bridge the gap you mentioned regarding reviewer availability. By centralising these reviews within a PR workflow, we create a more predictable pipeline for feedback and refinement before code enters the core system.

This is a collective effort to improve how we scale our development operations. If we can establish these regular touchpoints and adopt a shared development standard, we should see fewer integration headaches  and faster cycles for feature releases. I would love to hear your feedback on how you think we can implement this in a way that respects the workflow differences you are facing while still moving us toward greater consistency.

 

[Atrik]

24 minutes ago, Seleucids said:

I have read through both of your points and really appreciate the nuance around resource allocation and reviewer availability.

Tiny precision, I wasn't trying to blame the process  I saw how it works well to generate hardened quality code, the time reviewer spend to read your (sometimes sh!ty) code is never to be taken granted --thanks by the way @Vantha, @phosit, @Stan` for the reviews on my PRs --.

But simply the additional time to be spent on trying to get any feature into the game (again the 1-2 order of magnitude larger of work isn't a exaggeration, add to this waiting time) create a very real limit to what you can get done, even over a large time frame.

Your suggestions to try to organize the collaboration although nice, can hardly solve this dilemma.

 

Edited March 10 by Atrik

[AlexHerbert]

On 12/7/2004 at 7:34 PM, deaconwar said:

How do you guys guys think being able to use smilys in the game would affect it.

or being able to use smilys http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/uploads//emoticons/default_biggrin.png in the chat room

This is already possible, isn't?

Can be done with characters like =P

[Tapothei]

As far as I'm aware, there doesn't seem to be a way to cancel producing mass amount of units in a building, so my only choice is to manually click cancel and its annoying in multiplayer where input lag is present as well as mistaking a batch number or wrong unit, so solving it by a click of a button would be nice. I've made an issue already on github.

Edited March 11 by Tapothei

[Vantha]

@Atrik

I can relate to the points you mentioned, actually, because I felt a similar way when I first started contributing to this project. What I can tell you from my own experience, though, is that things tend to run smoother and quicker over time, as you would become a more regular contributor and also learn how things run and what to look out for in implementations.

Of course, making mods will always be faster and allow for more creative freedom, this is an essential aspect of the opens source philosophy, so I completely understand if people want to take that path. I welcome anyone who wants, though, to also open a PR and try to get the changes into the game, I think with git now it's easier than ever. I always try to work on those PRs as soon as I can, but of course it can take some time, it's important to think long-term I believe. And I'll admit that it can be difficult for me to find the balance between making it easy for the contributor and ensuring the best possible code quality.

@Atrik E.g., I'd love to eventually work on the wall snapping you implemented a while ago, if you feel like it.

[Stan`]

50 minutes ago, Vantha said:

@Atrik E.g., I'd love to eventually work on the wall snapping you implemented a while ago, if you feel like it.

If you do, please consider this too => https://code.wildfiregames.com/D1190 I think it would be really nice

 

@Atrik thank you for switching to the contributing side, it's very appreciated. My goal was to get all the modders on the main team eventually so the lack of speed would be curbed by the sheer number of people  It did and did not work out at the same time; so many areas to work on

 

 

[Perzival12]

15 minutes ago, Stan` said:

My goal was to get all the modders on the main team eventually so the lack of speed would be curbed by the sheer number of people  It did and did not work out at the same time; so many areas to work on

Once I figure out how to use git, I might consider adding some of Hyrule’s features to the main game, like spawning and stun.

[Atrik]

58 minutes ago, Vantha said:

@Atrik E.g., I'd love to eventually work on the wall snapping you implemented a while ago, if you feel like it.

6 minutes ago, Stan` said:

If you do, please consider this too => https://code.wildfiregames.com/D1190 I think it would be really nice

Yes! I also finely got it working almost perfect. There is just a couple things to clear and the feature tend to awaken a pre-existing bug. But it's very satisfying to use so definitively a must have in vanilla! Since I'm currently playing with it through moderngui, I think there are a couple things that would be also nice to have included, like what @Stan` linked. Overall maybe not a too small PR, so I'd maybe try to have the current big ones I have opened done and merged first (don't like the idea of having rotting PRs ), I enjoyed when we got things done for formations together, and I'm looking forward to get this rolling again!

16 minutes ago, Stan` said:

@Atrik thank you for switching to the contributing side, it's very appreciated.

Thanks @Stan`!!
'switching' sounds a bit like there is a wall between the two  and sometimes I also read comments that make it look like it's a sort of vs.
Modding allows for people to get used to the 0AD code, experiment and learn. That's was the case for me, and for others like @guerringuerrin. I'm also not planning on stopping modding and in general, want to use it as a way to try a lot of things, and select the best ones/ the one that can be implemented into vanilla. Mods also can be used to patch some bugs in between releases, and of course just to mention them, the total conversions are a subject on their own.

[Atrik]

11 hours ago, Tapothei said:

my only choice is to manually click cancel and its annoying in multiplayer where input lag is present as well as mistaking a batch number or wrong unit, so solving it by a click of a button would be nice. I've made an issue already on github.

In the meantime this get addressed, autociv--or ModernGUI-- have the a hotkey for it : "autociv.production.queue.clear".
Assigned as Alt+R by default.

[guerringuerrin]

24 minutes ago, Atrik said:

In the meantime this get addressed, autociv--or ModernGUI-- have the a hotkey for it : "autociv.production.queue.clear".
Assigned as Alt+R by default.

I'd love to add this to the training system improvements

[DesertRose]

• Builders and "Field Builders" are made separate. Builders that just have finished a House should not go over to build a Field but become idle
• Up to 5 Builders who are currently buildings a Field become Farmers instead of searching for other buildings to finish

Really annoying when your House builders "go missing" because they decide to become Farmers, and if you build two Fields with 10 Civilians they first build both Fields, then start farming.

[Tapothei]

44 minutes ago, DesertRose said:

Really annoying when your House builders "go missing" because they decide to become Farmers, and if you build two Fields with 10 Civilians they first build both Fields, then start farming.

You can set your builders on hotkey, thats what I do to my 4 civilians at the start.

[DesertRose]

From what I have seen there is neither a "drop resources and go idle" UI element nor a "drop resources and go idle" hotkey.

Use case: You want to shift your economy, and instead of having to find the nearest drop-off point yourself you can simply go Hotkey -> SHIFT + New Order.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

storehouse and farmstead technologies apply only to civilians.

thoughts?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

14 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

storehouse and farmstead technologies apply only to civilians.

thoughts?

Good idea. As the game progresses, Civilians gain a greater and greater economic benefit over Soldiers.

[Deicide4u]

3 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

storehouse and farmstead technologies apply only to civilians.

Sounds like something is cooking for the community mod 

[Tapothei]

4 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

storehouse and farmstead technologies apply only to civilians.

thoughts?

That makes makes it more.... interesting. On one hand it satisfies the turtle and rewards the offensive side too, this makes civs with cheap houses overpowered since they can produce villagers faster. But what about their stats? They are great with food but does stone, wood, metal stay same? Those into military first will need to strike fast before getting overwhelmed by eco score...

Lets introduce the mod and see how thing goes. Obviously the AI would need to tweak again if this idea ever applies as well as there will be less army(100 civilian:100 soldier) which in turn you could manage somehow in 200 pop limit...

[Deicide4u]

30 minutes ago, Tapothei said:

AI would need to tweak again

Yes, this change also requires tweaks to the AI's number of trained Civilians. It should train more of them. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Deicide4u

[DesertRose]

8 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

storehouse and farmstead technologies apply only to civilians.

thoughts?

Civilians become better lumberjacks after the first wood upgrade, and better miners after the second mining upgrade.

Citizen Soldiers are not economically viable anymore and training them puts you behind. So the optimal game plan is either
hyper aggression and attack the opponent after a few minutes so they could not wall / build defenses yet, or
super defensive and tech to P3 and get to 100+ Civilians before you train only Champions.

If you want AoE2 rage forest where there is instantly a lot of fights, then 10-30 minutes of boom, then fighting with endgame units it will be great.

If you want fights between late P1 and early P3 to happen it sounds like an awful change.

Edited 1 hour ago by DesertRose

[Deicide4u]

23 minutes ago, DesertRose said:

plan is either
hyper aggression and attack the opponent after a few minutes so they could not wall / build defenses yet, or
super defensive and tech to P3 and get to 100+ Civilians before you train only Champions.

Not much different from today, where it's either a Cavalry rush in the first 5 minutes, or boom fest until you both max out and attack with masses of CS.

Champions are strong, but they are also very expensive. You will need to expand in order to continue making them after your first wave. Maybe not on Mainland balanced, where you have 2 full Metal mines and a couple smaller ones near your first CC. Perhaps that is not "balanced", but what do I know.

29 minutes ago, DesertRose said:

If you want fights between late P1 and early P3 to happen it sounds like an awful change.

Even now, fights rarely happen in this period as there is no economic incentive to. You just hurt your economy, when you should be booming. That is what your opponent is doing, and he will have more units by the time your mid game attack comes near his borders.
Boom fest in AoE2 can be stopped by Cavalry raids in the mid game. You will be behind if you haven't walled properly. In 0 A.D., walls are more expensive, slower to build and there is no proper wall snapping. How will you defend your 100+ Civilians without an army, before your champions are ready?