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@StopKillingMe If you want to discuss the merits or bad things about @borg-'s mod, please do so on specific and concrete grounds, and not just some generic "it's not the way it used to be" or "it doesn't say things this way in the design document". Nothing holds any value on its own, if you can't explain why there is less reason to mention it at all than if you can explain why your point should be taken seriously. And also more specifically in this thread, the Design Document etc doesn't really matter, what matters is the aspects of the mod borg has created and their merit in and of themselves. If you want to discuss whether or not parts of the mod or the entire mod should be included in the main game, please create a new topic to do so.

Very casual, but he's having lots of fun and inspiring people to download

the current capture system is also a disaster. Why capture houses? is the most unnecessary thing I saw. too much time lost, trying to manage the units, avoiding that they do not mess up and capture towers impossible to capture, useless houses. I have to be changing the stay each batch or individual unit. i am concerned about siege units warfare, cavalry should (especially champions, catafract style and agema cavalry should fight easy against a couple of catapults. you have to purify that part of the shock cavalry. the archers are good at killing my pikemen, I like that, lose units in consistent ways. the champion elephant looks like a tank just with spades I put it down, I don't know what to think about that. i played very confident my last time. knowing that i lowered the quality of my ally (ai defensive). I almost lost an entire city.

I did a cleanup on the attack of all units, melee units only hack, ranged only pierce, this goes for the elephants too. Crush only for catapults. About melee units vs ships, very interesting, tnx.

This one was just about the resources. My other ones should be available here: Also had some other posts somewhere

We need some kind of animation or notification up at the top that shows the loot being added to the treasury. Could definitely be improved. lol Maybe inspired by Drogon from Game of Thrones.

in borg's mod be talk about little extra units. Vigiles.

I'm not sure if this is the complete one...

I will recommended your mod with my followers. your changes are very interesting. Can you check @DarcReaver gameplay design and try to incorpore some go the mod? I made a good quality document with solid arguments. Since I understand his points, I'm very open to their duggesting as well yours or Wowget.... are best guy to argue with this matter.

Quite the contrary, I did everything historically based. Macedonias fighting with pikemens. The greatest Roman weapon was his phalanx with sword and shield. Vanilla romans can train swordmen in phase 1. Seleucids and ptol have archer cav on vanilla. More some things about the mod, spartan have ranged infantry heliot slaves, slingers and javelins (spartan ranged units was composed by "slaves" helots.) Romans are the only civilization that can train mercenaries on barrack (slinger and archer)(auxiliary troops). It's already clear to everyone here that you have nothing useful to present and empty arguments, the only thing you want with this is pursue me. Anyway as I said, this is a topic to discuss about the mod, and it should not be implemented or not to the vanilla. For this you can create a topic for this. Thank you!!!

Wasting time trying to do a quick (and ugly) visualization of a possible new Roman CC layout:

How about a fully fledged simulated economy with supply chains and a civilian NPC population, from which you recruit your player controlled military units (which can then only be used to fight and build military structures). And add a call to arms button to call up a certain percentage of the NPC citizens as an emergency militia unit which can then be controlled directly as well.

In new version i make standart units for all civs (with some exceptions). All civs in p1, have infantry spear (anti cav), archer or slinger (anti melee infantry) and javelinist cav (anti archer/slinger). Seleucids and ptolemeus have cav archer (anti melee infantry) so they have javelins infantry than archer or slingers. I created some diversities based on the bonus for some civilizations, example, romans can make infantry sword in p1. Macedonia can make pikemen on p1 (pikeman cost 60f 60w, is like a spearmen but better), etc.

I will add this too: Spear units are your basic unit. Almost every civ should have a spear infantry and a spear cavalry. It's the sword units who are like-counters. So, sword infantry should counter spear infantry and sword cavalry can counter spear cavalry in some way (doesn't have to be a hard counter). I don;t necessarily do this, but I think spear cavalry countering sword cavalry doesn't make sense; it's backward. Swords > Spears (I know this isn't always the case -- in DE, in one of the few instances where I did extensive countering balance, I went to great pains to make a single swordsman murder a single spearman, but with auras and such I made massed spearmen be able to hold their own against massed swordsmen, still lose but not as badly).

In July 2009, 0 A.D. became free, open-source software (FOSS), where "free" means both gratis and, more importantly, "free" as in software and cultural freedom. (Specifically, we, the developers of 0 A.D., have made the code and data of the game available under the GPL license, version 2 or later, and released the art, sound and documentation under CC-BY-SA, version 3.0.) Briefly, this means that we allowed anyone to reuse components of 0 A.D. for any purpose, redistribute them and remix them without having to ask us for permission. They are free to make new games using the 0 A.D. engine, they may create remixes of 0 A.D. music, you name it. We did this, among other reasons, because we believe free, open-source software like 0 A.D. encourages sharing, learning and creativity, and we want to encourage people to remix, mod and tinker with 0 A.D. in the future. --- But there's an important condition that comes with these licenses. The main condition we ask from anyone who wants to make their own works derived from 0 A.D. (or parts of it) is that they release those derivative works only under the same licenses we did, or under similar ones. In other words, let's say you want to take a 3d elephant from 0 A.D. and you want to add a funny hat on its head and show everyone on the internet that you made a funny elephant with a hat. If you do this using an elephant from 0 A.D., you must allow other people to reuse the "elephant with the hat" image as much as they want, to redistribute and to remix it, etc., and even print it on posters and sell them if they want to. If you remix an elephant image from 0 A.D., you cannot legally tell people, "you can't use this 'elephant with hat' image without my permission", or require money for the permission to print it, etc. In this way, the creator of the "elephant" image makes sure that the "elephant and hat" work, the "elephant in a dress" work etc. all remain free cultural works. Nobody can legally rip off 0 A.D. works to make their own proprietary art. Rather, the 0 A.D. artwork and all its derivatives will remain forever free for everyone to share and enjoy. --- For many reasons, it is important that we make sure that everything that is bundled as a part of 0 A.D. is released freely. From the codebase and development tools, through the unit statistics, the artwork, the music score and the sound effects, to the stories of the scenarios and campaigns - Everything must be free (as in "freedom"). We must be very strict about this, or we risk disappointing some people who really want to make sure everything they use is free and trust us to keep tabs on these matters. This helps us maintain effective ways for 0 A.D.'s distribution and our public image. So, if you want us to bundle your art contributions with 0 A.D., we ask you to post in this thread to release your artwork under CC BY-SA 3.0. To do this, please copy-paste the following sentence and post in this thread: Please remember this action is irrevocable - Once you release a work under this license, you can never take it back and say, "I don't allow you to remix this 3d giraffe without asking for my permission". --- Thanks in advance from all of us. Feel free to post in this thread if you have any questions. And may your contribution to free software and culture be everlasting.

Resource & economy System revised This concept only covers economic features of civs. Military will be covered in a separate topic to keep this thing small. Some aspects of economy of course affect military as you’ll see later, but this is not the main argument at the moment. Military design and economic design will be tweaked to fit each other for every civ type. At first: I’d suggest to pair civilizations into groups (i.e. Hellenic Civs, Nordic civs, Indian/African civs and so on). I’ve covered Gauls, Britons, Iberians, Spartans, Athenians and Seleucids so far as more-or-less specific layouts. This again is not a 100% finished layout with every detail covered. Instead it's a general guideline to differ civs from each other and allow to create unique game play patterns for each of them. More than they currently are. The other civs will come later as I need to create something unique for them aswell. I’ll expand this concept for them in the next update(s). A .pdf is attached to be bottom of this post. (edit: I rewrote some parts because they contained some spelling errors. Should be more readable now) I. General thoughts on resources Every strategy game requires resources. The resources have to fit the game and players should have a choice whether collecting which resource is more important to them (strategic diversity). Each resource needs to fulfil a certain “role” that gathering it accomplishes it. To prevent “overburdening” the game with resources there has to be a flow in the game to naturally lead players towards gathering new resources (i.e. a progression from resource A into resource A+B into resource B etc.). Resources that already are gathered by players may not become redundant (because it’s replaced by another resource). If this is done well the economy management doesn’t become boring or unhealthy for the game and allows interesting, different types of playstyles where players decide how they are going to prioritize their gathering and army setups. Citizen/cavalry gatherers removed Yes I know this is a drastic change from the current concept. Yes, it will require reworking parts of the game. However, this is also the opportunity to improve the overall gameplay quality. Advantages of Citizen Soldiers/gatherers: - Usage of military units when not in combat - Especially cavalry can gather far away by hunting - Easy transition from economy to fighting Disadvantages of Citizen soldiers/gatherers: - No distinction between economic and military units (an integral part of every RTS) - Since many gatherers can be active at the same time (economic + every military) gathering rates have to be poor to avoid “economy explosions” which means that the resource income increases exponentially with each additional soldier - Players loose resources when attacking, short math example: o Soldier collects 0.5 food per second, 30 soldiers work as gatherers which means 15 food/second income (or 900 food/minute). Now if the 30 soldiers move to the enemy the player will lose 900 food every minute from his soldiers not gathering. Provided that the enemy has a similar army/economy that means that he’ll be ahead with 900 food for each minute he can gather (which would be equal to ~10 or more soldiers). o The attacking player needs to destroy more than 900 units worth of food every minute to get an advantage from his attack. If he can’t do that his attack actually weakens the Attacker instead of the Attacked -> unbalanced by design o Fixes: soldiers move at unrealistic ultra high speed (less time to get to the enemy) or lowering the gathering rates. The issue is the same still, attacking player initially has a large disadvantage - There is no progress from weakest -> strongest unit. Instead the players already start at a high level and then only progress in very small steps towards higher tech levels - Citizen soldiers discourage capturing as they are efficient at protecting the base early on, rendering capture rather useless - To get citizens back to work is a very fiddly task and annoying compared to regular economic units Overall it’s better to adjust gathering to specialized units for each civ type instead of giving every civ the ability for soldier gathering. This makes civs more diverse (-> more gameplay depth). One (poor) game mechanic lost for a massive gain in playability is more than worth it. Building layout (general) 1. Civic Centers are buildable from the start. City influence radius reduced. Can train a weak “militia type” unit and slingers. Slingers can be used to help hunting and Militias are weak units that can be used to harass and defend. Both units hard counter each other (slinger > militia, but in close combat militia beats slinger because of much lower hitpoints) 2. Storehouses, Sitobolon structures buildable in neutral territory 3. Farms require neutral territory, affected by gathering duration (fertility) – fields initially generate resources very slowly, but the rate increases the longer it is harvested by gatherers. When the gathering stops the field fertility decreases. To-do: Generate map areas in which farms are more productive (a possible map control element) 4. Military structures are postponed to City Phase, units are split up and not available all at once – either by per-building upgrades (only coding required, could be a workaround) or by splitting up the buildings into classes – Barracks, Stable, Archery range type classes (requires artworks), depending on civ type. Gatherer Limits: Food: 2/4 (for small/large food sources) Wood: 3 (for all trees) Stone, Iron, Silver: 3/5 (like food) Food – basic resource. Used for training units, upgrades (military), melee infantry & slingers, City advancing Wood basic resource. Used for military training (support/ranged units, ships). Used for economic upgrades, use for low tier buildings Stone – resource that constructs high tier buildings and expansions (civic centers, barracks, temples, gymnasion etc.) Iron - basic military resource, all basic melee military units require metal (swordsmen, pikes and cavalry). Silver - advanced military resource - is important for military improvement techs and used for training superiors, elite units. Slow to gather. Population - instead of being only connected to houses, population is influenced by city size (village - town - metropolis). Required to train units (obviously) Population cap (thoughts) Houses are hardcapped at ~10 houses per city. Depending on city level they can provide 10-20-30 population each. Alternatively: Military requires no population and is only depending on the food that is available from gatherers. Gatherers require population from houses and are hard capped per city. In a logical sense, soldiers that are at war do not sleep in houses, so it's rather strange that they take up pop from the city houses. Instead, armies rely on being supplied with food, water, weapons etc. from their home cities. This concept could be further elaborated, as I think it would fit the city Advance system. Alternatively, each city grants a fixed amount of population. Houses then are scrapped. I'd keep houses for the sake of being authentic though. houses belong into cities. Upgrade System Phase advancing: Food and Stone Economic upgrades: Lumber and Iron Military unit unlocks: Food/Lumber & Iron (ranged and melee units) Military unit type upgrades: Food and Silver Blacksmith “System“ Blacksmiths automatically reduce army Iron costs and increase the training speed for Sword wielding units. It can further research Metallurgy type techs that allow faster training, and allow further, cheaper unit production. Upgrades are not tied to City Phases anymore. Concept: Blacksmith generates “experience ranks” over time which allows more advanced upgrades to be researched. Corrals Can garrison captured herdables to provide food over time. Idea taken from the "intended" version of 0AD which isn't finalized yet. Gameplay reasoning There should be a transition from one type of resource to others, similar to this: food -> wood -> metal -> stone/silver. Players are not overly confused with gathering many resources from the start. As the game progresses the economy complexity increases. Early civic center expansion allows to take additional gathering spots and economic advances. Gatherers training times can be increased since it's possible to train them in multiple buildings. Since gathering spots are limited there has to be economic expansion to fit all gatherers to the spots. Phase advances that require stone - this way, players automatically need to gather a resource that will be more important in city phase, i.e. to build Phase II buildings. Military unit upgrades (like “advanced training” or unlocking certain units) create a resource transition towards Silver. II. Hellenic Factions (Sparta, Athen, Seleucids) Economic concept: Hellenes are defensive civs, and thus have bonuses for foraging berries and decent farming. Gathering rates are comparably high, so they can exhaust their own resources more quickly. Slaves are free gatherers that can be trained, have a hardcap that can be increased with City Phases and Slavery Techs. Athen speciality: silver mines last 20% longer Sparta speciality: slaves have 10% faster gathering rates, hoplites 15% faster, start at veteran rank Seleucid speciality: farming rate +50% (rate at which farming productivity increases) Gatherer types: Women (50 food, 1 pop) Gather rates: food Hunt : 1.25 herdables : 1.25 berries : 1.50 grain : 0.80 Gather rates: wood Trees: 0.6 rubble trees: 1.2 Gather rates: stone Quarries: 0.4 rubble stones: 0.8 Gather rates: iron Iron mines: 0.3 ambient iron: 0.6 Gather Rates: silver Silver mine: 0.2 Slaves (no cost, no pop. Have a hardcap) Gather rates: food Hunt : 1.4 herdables : 1.25 berries : 1.00 grain : 1.00 Gather rates: wood Trees: 0.8 rubble trees: 1.2 Gather rates: stone Quarries: 0.8 rubble stones: 1.2 Gather rates: iron Iron mines: 0.6 ambient iron: 1.2 Gather Rates: silver Silver mine: 0.4 A second type of gatherer that excels at mining. There are 2 options for them to be limited: either they automatically start to loose health if there are too many at one place, or they are simply hardcapped by default. It would be interesting to utilize capturing features to increase the maximum slave count. I.e. for 5 wounded/killed soldiers on the battlefield the number of slaves trainable increases by 1. So, by slaying enemy units the economic power rises for Hellenic civs. Due to the amount of gatherers per resource spot, having hundreds of slaves isn’t profitable as there is a need for more gathering spots to collect resources from. Buildings: Economic: wood only Military: wood and stone Civic: stone and food Iron: none Silver: none III. “Alpine” Civilizations (Iberians, Gauls, Britons) Economic concept: Opposed to Hellenes civs “nordic” civs rely more on hunting. They are mainly offensive civs to start with. Their buildings do not require much stone (if at all) but are less sturdy. Gathering rates are lower for farming and mining stone. The treadmill can be used to increase farming at a later civ stage to bring them on par with other civ’s lategame food economy. Early huntables creates power spikes because they can advance quickly and field armies in a shorter period of time. Also, this allows more spreading and early expansion. While Hellenes need to consider how many cities they can supply and defend, the Nordic civs can play a rather mobile earlygame with rushes and lots of interaction with gaia. Civ special advantages: villagers and Hunters receive weapon upgrades from the Blacksmith. Iberian speciality: Start with additional metal, soldiers have 20% bonus speed, iron gathering +15% Gauls speciality: +50% bonus damage against animals, units that are hunting have higher accuracy Cavalry +20% faster Britons speciality: Gathering from herdables +50%, herdables in stables provide more food Villager (50 food, 1 pop) Gather rates: food Hunt : 1.5 herdables : 1.5 berries : 1.0 grain : 0.60 Gather rates: wood Trees: 0.7 rubble trees: 1.2 Gather rates: stone Quarries: 0.2 rubble stones: 0.6 Gather rates: iron Iron mines: 0.4 ambient iron: 0.8 Gather Rates: silver Silver mine: 0.2 Villagers are both male and female. They can utilize spears or bows for hunting. Melee defense with knifes/swords. Hunter (80 food, 40 wood, 1 pop) Gather rates: food Hunt : 2.5 herdables : 2.25 berries : 1.50 grain : 0.80 Gather rates: wood Trees: 0.6 rubble trees: 1.2 Gather rates: stone Quarries: 0.4 rubble stones: 0.8 Gather rates: iron Iron mines: 0.3 ambient iron: 0.6 Gather Rates: silver Silver mine: 0.2 Hunters are mounted gatherers that can move swiftly around. They attack with spears and with upgrades/veterancy level they perform as a skilled mounted skirmisher unit. They can harass from the start, but due to a low attack rate with miss chance they are not that good to hit moving gatherers. As they kill animals their rank increases and they become more effective at raiding enemy economic units. Buildings: Economic: wood only Military: wood only Civic: wood and food (!) Iron: none Silver: none edit: removed-Special building : Corrals IV. Map control elements The game should be dynamic. Players should have options for economic expansion and there should be fluent progress on the whole map, with increasing intensity towards mid and lategame. Many current RTS games revolve around a central “base” from which all major actions are taken. Units trained, teching accomplished, resources gathered etc. Outposts or second bases have less priority because the risk – reward ratio (hard to defend, little benefits in return) is high. For 0 AD I’d like to propose a concept of “fluent expansion”. Since this game features unique aspects – city borders, city phases and a default capturing system for every military unit it would be beneficial to actually concentrate on these aspects. To further emphasize the city progression and the construction of an empire, it’s important to have interaction with the map. Constructing outposts – new cities – that can supply the Capital city to grow in prosperity and power should be a vital part for the course of the game. However, to avoid common issues from other RTS – economic expansion is punished hard by early rushes. Since eco management is pretty basic in many games, not punishing early economic expansion would lead to massive unitspam and create war of attrition, so it’s not desirable. Sort of basic and not very unique. Every game does that. 0 AD features a detailed economy, and so the early focus should actually be economic expansion. Only very basic military available that allows players to focus on where to expand, which positions are worth to create new cities etc. And then, as the game progresses, players can start gathering armies and start fighting. Many players enjoy “no rush” gametypes in which they can actually “build up” before the fighting starts – so rushing, even though it’s common in many RTS, is not the prime and sole option to solve games. By delaying military there is the option for players to satisfy their desire to “build” and then allows a fluent progression into fighting the enemy. How to achieve? 1. Allow military to interact with the map instead with the enemy only. By providing neutral targets that can be captured (like neutral Villages, cities, mercenary posts, slave posts, markets etc.) that can provide military and economic bonuses on a long term by increasing the player’s influence. 2. Allow military to attack positions apart from the main city. By providing multiple possible targets the strategical aspect becomes important – where to attack with how many units, fake attacks to disrupt the player, parallel harassment with multiple small armies which rewards multitasking, etc. 3. Distribution of map resources and hardcapping gatherers to force expansions. If players are forced to explore the map and expand to gain more resources it’s important to know and anticipate where and when the enemy is likely to expand. Game experience and strategical “what if” thinking and decision making is fun and rewarding. Ideas: Easiest: captureable herdables that can be used for food. Slave posts: automatically unlock the option to build slaves in cities for a silver cost. Mercenary post: train map type specific military units that provide additional tactical options in army compositions, instant and at a higher cost. Neutral cities: a small settlement or city with gatherable resources nearby, like a small gaul village, protected by some soldiers and has a couple of houses, maybe some farms. Can either be captured (expansion) or burned down to get immediate resource boost (food, iron, wood) Temples: neutral buildings that generate silver, or allow to train special types of support units that otherwise would only be available to certain civs (similar to a merc camp for non-combat units) Mines: generate iron indefinitely and work similar to farms How the actual implementation and which bonuses are provided is a secondary task. As long as the neutral building creates the urge for players to explore and expand it’s all fine. I’m open for additional ideas for neutral buildings for sure. 0ad Resource1.1.pdf

Sorry if my obs did that mess, but is mvk file better than heavy mp4.

3 games > 30 mins 33mins.zip 44mins.zip 71mins.zip

(D1961)

I understand that you did not mean that code should hacky, my choice of words was off, sorry about that. I meant that if something is expandable, the dev's usually want that done as well (D1960)

This is one is interesting

I try all. but sometimes I forgot because stress to think many things to same time. I use the hero but I can't down a single one, they are more powerful than a tower.

Maniples* -------- borg check my video around. min 51. https://youtu.be/sS0brA4pOaQ?t=3088

I didn't mean that the code should be hacky. I meant that something doesn't have to be feature complete in one patch. It can be broken down into usable chunks. For instance, making captured horses commandable is useful on it's own. Making them garrisonable can be another patch.

I hope some developers are paying attention to this thread - there is no way this mod should be rolled up into Alpha - it completely changes the game that we are all playing right now, Borg has reworked the entire game, all the historical research is out the window, the original concept of the game is out the window...he has basically changed everything...

at last my gameplay, sorry if is humble... (player and no so pro , but I don't like competitive gaming) the interesting things start to happen from min 45. @borg-

I'm with wow here. Though my argument would also be that the scale will look wrong. One will have either a to small area in the middle too few steps or too tiny ones.

in AoE I love use rush tower.... and some alphas ago I did that... but that is multiplayer and other kind of gaming less role playing.

yes, but you need micro, (I did that in a previous) but I try something new this time. same as played before massive pikemen plus cover. I try capture a very useful strategic stable but... they counter my little move and almost lost a city. but I destroy their best army and They lost everything. but my goal isn't, is have very good fight and try counters. and your features.

errrm, kik

in enemy territory under a siege?

Yeah haha, 1.25. Actually I use a standart status for all units. Spear cav uses the same spearmen infantry status, only more health and +1 hack armour. Same for cav archer, jave and sword.

yes I'm said that, you must change that because vanilla... fails that. I mean that will be fixed in your mod, delenda est for example , the houses are part of territory, I exploit the vanilla traping bettwen gaps or alleys enemy , so they get stuck. (early game) and my towers take them down. Seleucids and Ptolemies haven't cavalry swords. they have lancer cavalry (heavy). my ally for example destroy the rest of the enemy with simple ram spamming. Heroe Elephant to be clear vs 23 pikeman or more and other classes (slingers, archers and spear cavalry). I said may be can be good may be can be OP.

The Imperivm games come to mind (or at least 1, 2 and 3 do, I haven't played the later ones). The basic idea is that you don't have a pop cap, instead you have a population resource. There is also a target population number. The population resource will increase if it is below the target, or decrease if it is above. To create units you need to consume this population resource. So you can spam for a while, but eventually you will run out of this resource, and so you need to wait for it to regenerate.

That’s why I like to play it up to gunpowder or the most without stealth bombers and nuclear missiles.

yes I have that feeling.

This is a honest point of view at least. I prefer when people are saying what are bothering them. Thanks. So the other possibilities are the Basilica Fulvia Basilica Sempronia. Basilica Opimia and Basilica Porcia

Public Order.

Yeah, slingers destroying fortresses seems a little silly to me as well, and kind of defeats the purpose of siege with slinger-civs. You can just mass slingers and use them as your siege...

Hello 0 A.D. fellows. I'm proud to present my first polished map: Four Cities Meet (4). It is a map for 4 players, very assymetric gameplay, but I tried to keep it balanced. There is enough trees and animals, but not a lot of stone and even less metal, so there will be struggle for these resources. Player 1 and player 3 start in a large plain, which has a nice mountain where you can build defensive structures. The entrance of the mountain favours player 3. Player 4 starts at an elevated plateau, surrounded by a dense forest, while player 2 is very well protected by hills and a small stream. A pond in the middle of the map prevents a total war in the center: the players will have to fight in the flanks. Some screenshots: If you try it, let me know what you think. Have fun! Download: [It is part of the community maps mod (you get the whole mod on Github or just the map files for this map). The mod is already submitted to mod.io for approval, but that version still does not include this map.]

oh i didnt notice this thread, i have balancing some suggestions 1. OP CIV META my sugestion would be nerfing gauls, britons and ptolemies - that will let players for more competetive play (and more fair play), players in multiplayer wont be forced to play these 3 civilizations if they want to win. there are lot of civs that i like but the urge to pick OP civ is ultra big. above mentioned civilisations are too fast I played many competetive games MOBA included and it is unavoidable to not have stronger and weaker civs/characters/champions but the gap between these 3 and rest is so big that most players started 'maining' celtics and ptolemies, to the point where at least half of each game on multiplayer are celtics and ptolemies (sometimes all players) if these 3 civs were growing at same pace that other civilisations do, it would be great 2. RANGED UNIT META Althrough point 2. and 3. arent as troublesome as point 1, I noticed ranged units are much stronger overall than melee units. maybe with small dmg nerf people would start using melee units for something else than for human shields supposed to die instead of ranged units lol 3. SLINGER > ARCHER,JAVELIN one could think if archers have biggest range then they are strongest, or vice versa - javelins, because they have biggest dmg. thats not the case. slingers can kill javelins before they come close. Javelins have bigger dmg than slingers, but it doesnt do anything because slingers already have enough dmg to kill. why would you need more? ranged units are often hitting same target, so if u have 60 ranged units together, theres HUGE chance they will atk same targets, and only 5 attacks would be enough to kill, but since it was the closest target, theres often situation where 60 of ranged units hit exactly same person instead of splitting their arrows for targets, therefore a lot of arrows are wasted. thats case in fights javelin vs slinger (not with archers, they have low dmg), javelin just die before they come close, and when they are close they also atk slower so the 'bigger dps' isnt really bigger, its much smaller slingers somehow have perfect atk range and atk speed, so the supposedly bigger javelins damage isnt helping them at all, because they are slower and need to come closer, and they will die before that happens my few thoughts

Idea: make a carthage version where you play as hamilcar barca, as he never lost a battle but still lost the war, and after that wanted revenge and a rematch, just like the player would. This would set up the 2nd punic war campaign (maybe a mercenary war one in between) really well.

They are, but not certain at what point, but surely we will use them. Check this if you are not aware of it https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Triggers, besides there are a few maps using them. But to be fair, we haven't got to that point, so any task/possible trigger use said right now might change in the future. The goal of the project it's to have a playable campaign, not limited to destroying/wiping the enemy. We will use triggers, but not implement more, we are not programmers nor is in our scope, we might ask help from the devs team in any given situatio|n relating to triggers/core game.

I'll replace them with Alpine civs then. It's just a term afterall to unify them in one category.

wood food wood food wood food some alibi metal and stone. wood food. So you require wood food as most used resources for everything. Why don't military units cost a military resource? Also why are highly skilled cavalry archers the weakest units in the game? Riding horseman archers were forces to be reckoned with in ancient times and feared for their skill in combat and mobility. How can it be that a highly specialized elite unit is a basic unit available from the start? Why do citizens harvest resources with their spears/pikes/javelins at hand and work in full armour? And why would citizens harvest resources while being at war? Why are logistical buildings like a farm or granary restricted to city borders? Afaik there were no fields within most city boundaries? Where is the teching progress from weakest units -> strongest units? Where are basic army composition choices? Why is everything available in the first building without further teching required? How does it make sense to build towards outer resources with houses to increase city boundaries?