Feedbacks from A26 SVN tests

[Stan`]

@Salesome I'm not sure how Snap works exactly , but you need to give it write permissions.

Tagging @oSoMoN who is maintaining the snap.

 

[Salesome]

I checked that, too, and the snap package has all the permissions it asks for (see attached).

When I restarted the laptop just now, the game no longer crashes (restarts didn't work before on that issue...)

The error message in the game menu is still there.

[Stan`]

3 minutes ago, Salesome said:

has all the permissions it asks for (see attached).

Except one?

 

[Salesome]

True indeed  I thought, removable storage devices are uniteresting since there are no removable storage devices attached.

I turned this option on, too. The error message persists.

[andy5995]

Segfault when loading map (a map that has no problem in a25). The problem seems to be because a texture (alpine_grass_a_fancy) was removed or renamed in a26?

 

Quote

TIMER| loading/sprites.xml: 817.425 us
TIMER| loading/loading.xml: 19.9985 ms
WARNING: CTerrainTextureManager: Couldn't find terrain alpine_grass_a_fancy
TIMER| LoadDLL: 8.73841 ms
TIMER| common/modern/setup.xml: 153.378 us
TIMER| common/modern/styles.xml: 136.658 us
TIMER| common/modern/sprites.xml: 1.01752 ms
TIMER| common/resources/: 6.88504 ms
TIMER| common/global.xml: 355.172 us
TIMER| common/setup.xml: 291.092 us
TIMER| common/sprites.xml: 363.41 us
TIMER| common/styles.xml: 137.273 us
TIMER| session/setup.xml: 1.07442 ms
TIMER| session/sprites.xml: 1.29045 ms
TIMER| session/styles.xml: 638.289 us
TIMER| session/session.xml: 163.001 ms
GAME STARTED, ALL INIT COMPLETE
Segmentation fault (core dumped)

 

So... apparently more map migrations like what happened after a24 was released must take place after a26 is released?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

6 minutes ago, andy5995 said:

Segfault when loading map (a map that has no problem in a25). The problem seems to be because a texture (alpine_grass_a_fancy) was removed or renamed in a26?

 

 

So... apparently more map migrations like what happened after a24 was released must take place after a26 is released?

Which map? 

[andy5995]

1 minute ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Which map? 

Asian Campaign from the cm2 mod. Don't worry, if that ever happens with a map included with vanilla, I'll be sure to name it in my report.

Edited March 8, 2022 by andy5995

[Stan`]

Yeah @vladislavbelov asked me to remove all fancy grass experiments because they were not looking good enough and were bad for performance.

[andy5995]

9 minutes ago, Stan` said:

Yeah @vladislavbelov asked me to remove all fancy grass experiments because they were not looking good enough and were bad for performance.

@Stan`So how do I make that change to the pmp files in the cm2 mod??

Edited March 8, 2022 by andy5995

[Stan`]

I made it through a C# program. The gist is to replace all occurences of fancy in the pmp, but there is a catch... Let's see if I can open source that. Didn't try it on linux though :/

Might also update the existing python migration script.

[Fabius]

Hi, is there a test version of A26 currently available or is it still under construction?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, Fabius said:

Hi, is there a test version of A26 currently available or is it still under construction?

There was the test bundle from December, but currently the best, most up to date version if the development "SVN" version.

[Player of 0AD]

Corrals shouldn't be nerfed: They are bad in the early game anyway so the fact that you require phasing up for bigger animals only makes it worse. And animals give experience now, that might be a design mistake. Why would a soldier learn how to fight by butchering domesticated animals? This doesnt make sense while experience from hunting makes some sense. In the long run your cavalry will reach rank 3 so they lose half of their gather speed and this makes it harder to use the corrals. Operating corrals with rank 3 cavalry will not save you much more population space than operating fields.

Reducing the armor of pikemen is a step into the right direction but I think they should gain 10% attack in return. Right now the macedonians are the ones who have the biggest disadvantage of this nerf and they arent really the ones who deserve it the most.

Acceleration seems to be pointless. It makes the game more complicated and reduces the fun.

[faction02]

The "Imperial court" + "Civil Engineering 1" + "Civil Engineering 2" means that a Han civic center can get up to 5940 hp with the possibility to shoot 43 arrows per 2 sec. Caros ability may be too strong in that context since it would be equivalent to 30 extra units garrisonned in that civic center (I never tried if several Caros could cumulate their ability).

Caros create a big difference between having 1 building firing 40 arrows or 2 buildings firing 20 arrows each. The "imperial court" upgrade may result in making the balancing of defensive structure a bit too complicated  (D4510). Maybe increasing the number of units that can be garrisonned by only 10 instead of 20 (and adjusting its cost accordingly) would be better for a first test of the feature? 

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by faction02

[Player of 0AD]

2 minutes ago, faction02 said:

 (I never tried if several Caros could cumulate their ability).

 

 

They don't. I wanted to invent the "Caros Siegetower" but it doesn't work : (

[Player of 0AD]

Formations work even worse than ever

It seems to be not possible to deactivate the battaillon behavior in the settings

Idle Formations are not shown as idle

Formations hack buildings down even though i tell them to attack just units

Formations cant walk through forests even though soldiers can

Formations can fail at gathering resources, f.e. wood

Ranged units in formations run via the battlefield instead of shooting

Formations can fail completely and get stuck, just walk but not attacking

[Stan`]

1 hour ago, Player of 0AD said:

Formations work even worse than ever

It seems to be not possible to deactivate the battaillon behavior in the settings

Idle Formations are not shown as idle

Formations hack buildings down even though i tell them to attack just units

Formations cant walk through forests even though soldiers can

Formations can fail at gathering resources, f.e. wood

Ranged units in formations run via the battlefield instead of shooting

Formations can fail completely and get stuck, just walk but not attacking

Replay?

[Player of 0AD]

1 hour ago, Stan` said:

Replay?

Does a replay of a 3v5 help?

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

On 12/03/2022 at 6:11 AM, Player of 0AD said:

Acceleration seems to be pointless. It makes the game more complicated and reduces the fun.

Mmm, I was hoping that acceleration would be a feature that does not affect infantry units, but rather just cavalry. Hopefully it can look more like this after we play pre-release versions.

[Stan`]

1 hour ago, Player of 0AD said:

Does a replay of a 3v5 help?

Well if it shows how formation are broken it might help @Freagarach and @Silier might fix it.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

5 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

Mmm, I was hoping that acceleration would be a feature that does not affect infantry units, but rather just cavalry. Hopefully it can look more like this after we play pre-release versions.

The main problem with acceleration is the formation behavior. People like to click-task a lot.

apm, boi!

But this causes a problem in formations where the acceleration is reset for every right-click, making the formation seem super slow and extremely sluggish, the whole formation then getting slaughtered due to induced hesitation from clicking. This doesn't happen with individual units as much. I suspect this may be another alpha where formations are not used because of weird behavior like this. Sad, because of the cool new formation banners.

I now suggest we remove all acceleration for this alpha until it can be rebalanced and its behavior in formations patched. 

@Stan` @Silier @Freagarach @wraitii 

[Stan`]

2 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

The main problem with acceleration is the formation behavior. People like to click-task a lot.

apm, boi!

But this causes a problem in formations where the acceleration is reset for every right-click, making the formation seem super slow and extremely sluggish, the whole formation then getting slaughtered due to induced hesitation from clicking. This doesn't happen with individual units as much. I suspect this may be another alpha where formations are not used because of weird behavior like this. Sad, because of the cool new formation banners.

I now suggest we remove all acceleration for this alpha until it can be rebalanced and its behavior in formations patched. 

@Stan` @Silier @Freagarach @wraitii 

https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4512

It would pain me to have to commit ↑ (or any removal of it) but I haven't seen many people who actually enjoy the feature. @Freagarach maybe? And not many Realism oriented players voice their opinion anyway (tired of the SP/MP dichotomy)

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

21 minutes ago, Stan` said:

https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4512

It would pain me to have to commit ↑ (or any removal of it) but I haven't seen many people who actually enjoy the feature. @Freagarach maybe? And not many Realism oriented players voice their opinion anyway (tired of the SP/MP dichotomy)

Acceleration would really be a lot better if the formation behavior was addressed.  It's also not a bad feature for warships and rams, etc. Looks good for those.

Edited March 14, 2022 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Outis]

7 hours ago, Stan` said:

https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4512

It would pain me to have to commit ↑ (or any removal of it) but I haven't seen many people who actually enjoy the feature. @Freagarach maybe? And not many Realism oriented players voice their opinion anyway (tired of the SP/MP dichotomy)

Realism oriented player speaking 

I think when other great features such as ship ramming, charging, directional attacks (flanking) are implemented, acceleration will make much more sense. In fact, I don't see those features working well without acceleration. The challenge today is, how to make use of it without such features and not break the game. In essence, acceleration has an impact in maneuvering. I see it having a greater impact on cavalry than infantry. It will make cavalry raiding more difficult and require more attention from the executing player. Personally, I like outcome.

[Player of 0AD]

On 13/03/2022 at 5:35 PM, Stan` said:

Well if it shows how formation are broken it might help @Freagarach and @Silier might fix it.

Actually it might be a bit to un-useful, this 3v5 replay. Instead I attach a A25 replay where the deciding battle is decided by the formation bug which prevents units from fighting. Suddenly the units of my opponent decide that fighting is meh, they just restore the normal look of the formation and stop fighting. I've seen this bug also in A26. A reason might be the mixture of ranged and melee units in a formation. Usually it works all fine if you have just melee units in a formation or just ranged units.

Considering the other bugs, I can try to tell how to reproduce:

On 13/03/2022 at 1:30 PM, Player of 0AD said:

Formations work even worse than ever

It seems to be not possible to deactivate the battaillon behavior in the settings

Deactivate battaillons in the settings, put some soldiers into some formations, send them somewhere and later check for idle units. Battaillons appear in your selection.

On 13/03/2022 at 1:30 PM, Player of 0AD said:

Idle Formations are not shown as idle

Will happen after a won fight, at least very often

On 13/03/2022 at 1:30 PM, Player of 0AD said:

Formations hack buildings down even though i tell them to attack just units

Very easy to reproduce if there is a hostile building (not gaia) in front of you

On 13/03/2022 at 1:30 PM, Player of 0AD said:

Formations cant walk through forests even though soldiers can

Very easy to reproduce

On 13/03/2022 at 1:30 PM, Player of 0AD said:

Formations can fail at gathering resources, f.e. wood

Try to send a huge formation to cut wood

On 13/03/2022 at 1:30 PM, Player of 0AD said:

Ranged units in formations run via the battlefield instead of shooting

Formations can fail completely and get stuck, just walk but not attacking

Both of this happens in the replay

FormationBug.zip