Smurf tag.

[Dunedan]

19 hours ago, Sevda said:

There is one thing which I didn't understand: how can a smurf detection algorithm work on the server side? Smurfs are discovered by players who see a new account playing like experts and talking with 0AD jargons. I'm not sure how the server can tell these details.

If you as a player see somebody you consider a smurf, why do you need any codified algorithm at all? Wouldn't just not playing with this player be sufficient? I believe this thread is more about automated detection, which helps detecting non-obvious smurfs.

19 hours ago, Sevda said:

Furthermore, even if you do install such an algorithm, I would recommend only allowing it to flare up smurf suspects to the moderators instead of pre-emptively taking actions themselves. AIs are quite likely wrong and the lobby would be a mess if it bans a moderator or WFGbot.

I'd suggest not taking any preemptive action on server-side anyway, but instead leaving it up to players if they want to get likely smurfs tagged in the UI or even excluded from their games. That'd then have to implemented client-side.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Dunedan
Fixed wrong negation

[smiley]

2 hours ago, Dunedan said:

We do store the date when players create an account, but that's not accessible to the lobby bots right now

An alternative but slightly unattractive solution in terms of maintenance and dependency on ejabberd is writing up a module to handle some type of age query IQ.

[Dunedan]

38 minutes ago, smiley said:

An alternative but slightly unattractive solution in terms of maintenance and dependency on ejabberd is writing up a module to handle some type of age query IQ.

Yes, that would work as well, but I'd like to avoid that for the reasons you mentioned.

[Stan`]

I suppose the smurf score of an account could be based on IP address and player reports.

Two brothers playing on the same connection would show up as smurf/dupe account but as long as no preemptive measures are taken I think it's fine.

Would be nice to rate 2v2. Lag is a bit too much for 4v4

[Yekaterina]

8 hours ago, Dunedan said:

why don't you need any codified algorithm at all?

I observe their gameplay and compare their macro and micro to known good players and what I would do in that situation. For example, booming can give away a smurf: a new account who reaches 170 population and 10:00 sharp without any extras is obviously a very experienced player behind. Or, if they go straight into abusing certain OP units (as you wouldn't expect new players to know so well which units are OP let alone spam masses of them). Anyone who dances has definitely played A23 - can't be new. Furthermore, they may resemble someone we already know but isn't active at the moment - that person becomes a suspect. However, these are small gameplay features that humans can detect by watching games but quite difficult for bots to know. 

8 hours ago, Dunedan said:

detecting non-obvious smurfs.

I think non-obvious smurfs are not harmful anyways, could be someone who lost their account. In that case, playing with a smurf is identical as playing with someone who is usually not very active. 

[Yekaterina]

1 hour ago, Stan` said:

Would be nice to rate 2v2. Lag is a bit too much for 4v4

However, most games in the lobby are either 1v1 or 4v4 or sometimes 3v3. 2v2s are quite rare. 

I think 4v4 should be given the option to be rated. If it crashes or DDOS then the host may terminate the game. 

[Yekaterina]

Someone used my account and Aslan banned me, the real one...

[Yekaterina]

1 hour ago, Sevda said:

Someone used my account and Aslan banned me, the real one...

Now you know how it feels to have your password leaked hahahaha

 

Hot_Chocolate(1408) and Sevda(1629) are all run by imposters now

[thephilosopher]

1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:

Hot_Chocolate(1408) and Sevda(1629) are all run by imposters now

Are the imposters good players? Is this finally my chance to "defeat" a 1600 rated player?

[Darkcity]

7 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

Hot_Chocolate(1408)

He has highest number of smurf accounts. I think one of the punishment for smurf should be banning their original account. :p

[Alar1k]

On 18/07/2022 at 5:57 PM, alre said:

I don't think there's any problem here, have you been accused of anything? 

making more info avaiable is only good. also rated team games would be wonderful.

Well my personal problem was more in regards to being ether called a noob or a smurf and therefore "bad for balance" when I wanted to play TG's - not as in hard accusation but more like "let's just take somebody we can balance the game better" since nobody (myself included) likes TG that's way off in balance.

And I do really like proposition @Darkcity made since it seems it would solve most of the problems that were raised here.

 

All in all old accounts/players should have a differentiation from new players, and also - maybe show how many TG games won/lost player has separately. Idk when I have time to play I prefer to play TG, maybe it's just me but I don't really enjoy 1v1 games all that much so my rank is not going anywhere for long periods of time. And I think that alone makes it difficult to balance when only info you have about the account is ranked games win/lose.

I do hope I get to play some TG when I get back, but gotta fix my internet first...

[G.O.A.T]

This is funny, shared accounts leaked on this thread still not banned - hallowed by WFG team ()

I'm just curious if sooner or later any mod scripter  will share mod to have easy one-click access to shared accounts, as there are totally untouchable. 

 

I updated by "about me" page.  

Did you know every time i release a list of new smurf - new wave of even more will arise? It means my effort has some fruits....

 

[rossenburg]

2 hours ago, G.O.A.T said:

This is funny, shared accounts leaked on this thread still not banned - hallowed by WFG team ()

I'm just curious if sooner or later any mod scripter  will share mod to have easy one-click access to shared accounts, as there are totally untouchable. 

 

I believe, banning "Pwned" accounts isn't the best way around such issue. If @ValihrAnt get pwned we need to ban his account together with his ratings?, probably 

should do the magic when it's finally integrated.

[Norse_Harold]

6 hours ago, rossenburg said:

I believe, banning "Pwned" accounts isn't the best way around such issue. If @ValihrAnt get pwned we need to ban his account together with his ratings?, probably 

You're right, banning leaked or "pwned" accounts is not the best way to solve the problem. However, it's the only way to maintain security and an effective reputation-based justice system until email addresses are collected, unless WFG wants to start using password reset questions and answers, but that has its own pitfalls such as easily guessed answers.

It's impossible to ensure that the original account holder resets the password if the only requirement for resetting the password is the leaked password.

Seems like another "legitimate interest" in collecting an email address, for GDPR compliance purposes, specifically for password reset capability. If Linux-loving libertarians think that collection of email addresses is so onerous, then consider making it optional and give incentives such as access to matches that are restricted to "verified" accounts only.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Norse_Harold

[Guest]

I will very concerned if 0AD promotes this kind of denunciation page.

https://wildfiregames.com/forum/profile/36868-goat/?tab=field_core_pfield_17

Without diving into data collection, without consent, without any true game justification and without any release as @G.O.A.T is doing...

https://gdpr-info.eu/

Edited September 11, 2022 by rm -rf

[Lion.Kanzen]

14 minutes ago, rm -rf said:

I will very concerned if 0AD promotes this kind of denunciation page.

https://wildfiregames.com/forum/profile/36868-goat/?tab=field_core_pfield_17

Without diving into data collection, without consent, without any true game justification and without any release as @G.O.A.T is doing...

https://gdpr-info.eu/

the european union is a fascist state.

 

[Gurken Khan]

34 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

the european union is a fascist state.

[G.O.A.T]

1 hour ago, rm -rf said:

I will very concerned if 0AD promotes this kind of denunciation page.

https://wildfiregames.com/forum/profile/36868-goat/?tab=field_core_pfield_17

Without diving into data collection, without consent, without any true game justification and without any release as @G.O.A.T is doing...

https://gdpr-info.eu/

You are really funny guy or girl.  My tab with names does not contain any private data. Do you consider your nickname in game to be private data? Sorry even GDPR does not care about you being borg or cyborg or smurf 

I simply see only reaction to the fact someone uncover your player identities. Like small baby when you take away its toy  

Are there any private data leaked without your consent?

Maybe you really need spend some time to read:

Terms of Service 
Terms of Usage 
Privacy Policy

 

Feel free to answer with strong arguments .-) otherwise shut up baby

 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by G.O.A.T

[Guest]

1 hour ago, G.O.A.T said:

You are really funny guy or girl.  My tab with names does not contain any private data. Do you consider your nickname in game to be private data? Sorry even GDPR does not care about you being borg or cyborg or smurf 

I simply see only reaction to the fact someone uncover your player identities. Like small baby when you take away its toy  

Are there any private data leaked without your consent?

Maybe you really need spend some time to read:

Terms of Service 
Terms of Usage 
Privacy Policy

 

Feel free to answer with strong arguments .-) otherwise shut up baby

 

 

 

 

@G.O.A.T

No need to offense. You must be in trouble here to disrespect like this.

Please don't mix and match my sentences - Your main page is simply about delation. yes nothing less.

Snooping IP and saving them is the crucial point ! And nobody signed an agreement with you right?

Are u referring to legal basis for the processing in Privacy_Policy.txt ?

https://trac.wildfiregames.com/browser/ps/trunk/binaries/data/mods/public/gui/prelobby/common/terms/Privacy_Policy.txt

It's an agreement between me and Wildfire Games - nothing between me and Sanafur / AlocAloc / G.O.A.T.

As well mentioned by Wilfire Games https://trac.wildfiregames.com/browser/ps/trunk/binaries/data/mods/public/gui/prelobby/common/terms/Privacy_Policy.txt, see GDPR 13.1.a, GDPR 13.1.b.

Then I ask, by right, the erasure of my personal data on your computer Sanafur / G.O.A.T

I don't have to detail order between laws and an agreement which doesn't exist with sanafur / G.O.A.T, right ?

Edited September 11, 2022 by rm -rf

[G.O.A.T]

@rm -rfMy computer does not store any your personal data. anyway to be sure it stores them kindly provide me your personal details to match them like your real name, address, your provider details, your IP address.

Regarding the game, my best guess is if players joining the lobby the all accept agreements  to be able to join each other or the way game is designed. 

If you are accusing me of some wrongdoing and misusing your personal data, kindly proceed by laws you mentioning.  I'm not aware of any, and provided smurfs list is only best effort guesstimate and reporting from other observers, as far as I know there is no any privacy concerns. 

I claim I don't know your identity, your real name, your address
As I don't expose my players name I can admit I could be able join your hosted game and my computer possibly needed some networking details to perform that. It this breaking of GDPR? Anyway to confirm this please provide me your player nickname to review it,

In my mind are these players accounts I joined in non-specific time. Are those you?
011235813 1600 gawky iaintborg- n.n. rotfl timidsmurf vieuxreac wxyz yazney_k

 

[Guest]

@G.O.A.T

Again GDPR asks you to remove all IP, DNS lookup, geo locs about my UDP connections straight away. Private data is not only about your real name.

I don't have any agreement with you @G.O.A.Talocaloc sanafur as all players fingered on your delation page via your IP lookups.

Edited September 11, 2022 by rm -rf

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dakara said:

This guy is very crazy  but very 

Yes this page https://wildfiregames.com/forum/profile/36868-goat/?tab=field_core_pfield_17 is crazy.

[G.O.A.T]

9 minutes ago, rm -rf said:

@G.O.A.T

Again GDPR asks you to remove all IP, DNS lookup, geo locs about my UDP connections straight away. Private data is not only about your real name.

I don't have any agreement with you @G.O.A.Talocaloc sanafur as all players fingered on your delation page via your IP lookups.

I'm not aware of holding any of your IP, DNS, geo locs of yours UDP connections.

I totally agree GDPR also consider IP address as personal data if connected to real person.

Anyway I strongly disagree with argument that if in any my local file there is your IP address stored by any means this IP address is connected to your real person - it looks to me to be annonymized.  Wildfiregames also states in their agreements they do not have knowledge who are you, as they don't require to collect such data as other companies are forced to do (like banks, or other commercial services).

In this case I consider myself as player of the game with same restriction and agreement approval as you. 

Further you are addressing some player names like alocaloc and sanafur which are not familiar to me, you might need address it directly to them.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

TimidSmurf was created to reverse engineering your code/process. You were able to catch the account without any game the first time you enter the tg and get the ip, before I say hello...

@G.O.A.T / sanafur / alocaloc - it's not u who decides what's anonymized or not... see how you track... Yes no marketing reuse - just pure denunciation. I frankly don't think it's better.

And your overall initiatives don't help the game by fingering players (I have never seen a Wall Of Shame as such in any other game). Having a second account, don't mean you don't give you accurate rating for a balance TG. Falsy ratings imbalance far more...

I don't have any lesson to receive from your behavior @G.O.A.TSanafur AlocAloc. What a shame!

Clean your mess and my private data you're saving. Again we don't have any agreement.

Edited September 11, 2022 by rm -rf

[guerringuerrin]

From my point of view:
Smurf problem is bc small community and small community is bc lag and bad game's performance. 

Everyone wants to play with known players and many "pros" seems to be afraid to play with "unknown" bc they don't know what his enemy would do.

So the new ones can't play with those 40/50 good players and many times u have to wait 10/20 minutes or more to play. And many times, someone who was waiting so long to play its removed bc some balancing thing.

In fact, "Smurf problem" it's just a matter for old players and big problem for a few "Zealots of the Balance".

U always can ask to that "smurf" what lvl is and most of the time he'll answer.

Ofc we all wants to play balanced games. But i think we are taking this to the extreme.

We should think in ways to improve the game's performance, ways to make money, fund rising, buying coffes, idk but there's a group of ppl that works so hard to give us this RTS experience (The Best in the genre) and we should think better ways to help instead of asking those few devs to make some kind of anti smurf algorithm, wtf are we talking about?

Edited September 11, 2022 by guerringuerrin