king reza the great Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) hi guys. i wanna say some reason that why alpha 24 is not good. 1- sound is not good. when u fight u even cant feel it because action sound is hard to hear even if u put it to max from settings. a23 had very nice sounds i have no idea why devs changed it. 2- there r low differences between civs now and its not interesting. in fact if civs r almost same the game will be boring. in a23 there r enough differences between civs. 3- economy of a24 is terrible. a23 had much better economy. why devs changed it ? in a24 its hard to reach 200 pop and u r always run out of wood. 4- a24 is less realistic. for example how possible catas and rams cant atatck soldiors ? its really boring. and how possible bowmen r able to destroy catas and bolts ? 5- the game is still laggy. i even think lag in a24 is more than lag in a23. its why many players prefer to host 3v3 games and avoid 4v4 games. 6- in a24 u r less able to rush. no rush no fun. rushing makes games more realistic and thriller. i think a23 is much better than a24. in fact a24 is like a different game. when i play it i dont feel im playing 0ad ! im looking for new game ! any suggestion ? Edited February 24, 2021 by king reza the great 2 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, king reza the great said: im looking for new game ! any suggestion ? It has a little-known game but maybe that's what you're looking for: Age of Empires Edited February 24, 2021 by Lopess 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nani Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 21 minutes ago, king reza the great said: 2- there r low differences between civs now and its not interesting. in fact if civs r almost same the game will be boring. in a23 there r enough differences between civs. True. I feel like the unique gameplay mechanics that every civilization had in alpha 23 has been exchanged for a more generic version that is a fit-for-all that imho makes it less interesting. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borg- Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, king reza the great said: hi guys. i wanna say some reason that why alpha 24 is not good. 1- sound is not good. when u fight u even cant feel it because action sound is hard to hear even if u put it to max from settings. a23 had very nice sounds i have no idea why devs changed it. 2- there r low differences between civs now and its not interesting. in fact if civs r almost same the game will be boring. in a23 there r enough differences between civs. 3- economy of a24 is terrible. a23 had much better economy. why devs changed it ? in a24 its hard to reach 200 pop and u r always run out of wood. 4- a24 is less realistic. for example how possible catas and rams cant atatck soldiors ? its really boring. and how possible bowmen r able to destroy catas and bolts ? 5- the game is still laggy. i even think lag in a24 is more than lag in a23. its why many players prefer to host 3v3 games and avoid 4v4 games. 6- in a24 u r less able to rush. no rush no fun. rushing makes games more realistic and thriller. i think a23 is much better than a24. in fact a24 is like a different game. when i play it i dont feel im playing 0ad ! im looking for new game ! any suggestion ? Is rams attack soldiers realistic? Catas and shooters have soldiers operating, so in theory archers would be killing those soldiers and not attacking the catapult, and it was also to balance, because these units are now stronger. Rush is still very plausible, I already proved it in my games, I won all with rush (although I don't like the rotation). Say that civilizations are the same now for me is not true. Edited February 24, 2021 by borg- 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borg- Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) Saying that you don’t feel playing 0a.d doesn’t make sense because 0a.d isn’t a ready game, it’s constantly changing, but I understand that, it’s been a few years playing the same version, it’s normal to feel different, but you can get used to it with the changes. Anyway, we can bring some necessary changes back in a25. Edited February 24, 2021 by borg- 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borg- Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 Certainly any feedback is very useful (mainly what is wrong), but it is fair to bring some improvements too, like: 1 - stronger cavalry 2 - ranged units weaker 3 - champs back to the game 4 - spear cavalry attacks correctly now 5 - cant dance 6 - hero cannot be trained after dying 7 - melee units chasse easer 8 - formation works better etc.., etc... It seems to me that there are more positive changes than negative ones, so I think we are on the right track. What I can recommend to you is to keep playing and maybe have a different view. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator303 Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 1 hour ago, borg- said: 8 - formation works better I wouldn't say that XD. When I've sended ~100 units they were walking in a very very long line then when they reached their goal they started to rotate like clock hands. It was pathethic to watch. Lastly most important thing 4vs4 is now unplayable. Yesterday we were playing (nani, juarca, etc) and it was impossible to play. For sure lag is bigger than at prev alpha. Also one more thing. Chop chop chop wood for the win lol. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axi Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 Its not nice bcos i cant play it on Linux Mint yet just kidding, i will wait patiently of course! Very interested to see how it is, judging from one valihrant youtube video it cant be too bad! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 5 hours ago, king reza the great said: i wanna say some reason that why alpha 24 is not good. [...] i think a23 is much better than a24. in fact a24 is like a different game. when i play it i dont feel im playing 0ad ! You don't have to play A24: you can continue to play A23, if you like, or an even earlier version . 5 hours ago, king reza the great said: 2- there r low differences between civs now and its not interesting. in fact if civs r almost same the game will be boring. in a23 there r enough differences between civs. Yes. Civilizations were already very similar in A23 and earlier releases and have become even more similar in A24. This is unfortunate, I don't like it much either. The reason it happened is because it's more important to get the basics right and having a balanced core gameplay, from which to further differentiation later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nani Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 1 hour ago, axi said: Its not nice bcos i cant play it on Linux Mint yet just kidding, i will wait patiently of course! Very interested to see how it is, judging from one valihrant youtube video it cant be too bad! Try wine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king reza the great Posted February 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 8 hours ago, borg- said: Is rams attack soldiers realistic? Catas and shooters have soldiers operating, so in theory archers would be killing those soldiers and not attacking the catapult, and it was also to balance, because these units are now stronger. Rush is still very plausible, I already proved it in my games, I won all with rush (although I don't like the rotation). Say that civilizations are the same now for me is not true. Did u ask yourself why many players didn't like a24 and got back to a23 Also I think a game should be developed in a line, unfortunately devs broke the line and made something new, even strong players r learning the game again... Also they mostly didn't like it. About archers they r too strong. They even kill spears and pikes easily. Really hard to counter them. Now archer civs r crazy strong Just image many units try to destroy seigs like rams that r supported by many archers. That poor units r easy target for archers then they die easily. I even feel devs removed the random for archers attack or at least decreased it! 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king reza the great Posted February 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 8 hours ago, borg- said: Certainly any feedback is very useful (mainly what is wrong), but it is fair to bring some improvements too, like: 1 - stronger cavalry 2 - ranged units weaker 3 - champs back to the game 4 - spear cavalry attacks correctly now 5 - cant dance 6 - hero cannot be trained after dying 7 - melee units chasse easer 8 - formation works better etc.., etc... It seems to me that there are more positive changes than negative ones, so I think we are on the right track. What I can recommend to you is to keep playing and maybe have a different view. Not agree with stronger cavalry. I think they r weaker. And in a23 they were strong enough. Ranged unit weaker !? And how archers r so strong now !? They crush every thing Hero can't be trained after dying was not good choice I think. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borg- Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 36 minutes ago, king reza the great said: Did u ask yourself why many players didn't like a24 and got back to a23 I see the a24 server full now. It is normal, every alpha has adaptation complaints. Anyway this is not a dispute between a23 and a24, you can continue playing a23 without problems if you didn't like a24. But in no way will we stop the development of the gameplay and stop in time with a23, as I said before, this is in constant development and some descriptions had to be taken to fix many things that were wrong. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borg- Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 29 minutes ago, king reza the great said: Ranged unit weaker !? And how archers r so strong now !? They crush every thing If an archer is bad in a23 there is a complaint, if he gets stronger in a24 it is also a complaint. What i see is that it is still too early to know what is "op" or useless. Most players have yet to see half of the changes, so arguments like "archer op" for me are not valid at this point. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinketos Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 I don't have lag, what if I see is that gameplay is kind of slow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffffffff Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 10 hours ago, king reza the great said: 6- in a24 u r less able to rush. no rush no fun. rushing makes games more realistic and thriller. this is called market normalization. Now we can go for rush op again in a25. eae. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarcoma Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) Everybody whines when alphas change significantly but players always adapt and learn to like it. Many people paved the way in a24 for future balancing with more frequent releases. We are lucky this time borg and nescio hear our cries about balancing Edited February 25, 2021 by sarcoma 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrstgtr Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 I am overall not a fan of A24. I like a lot of the balancing changes, but the game overall isn't as enjoyable. Things I don't like The game moves much, much slower. Part of this is because unit production is way slower. Part of this is because units actually move slower. I do not see the need for either of these and both make gameplay considerably longer. Because of slower unit movements, defensive buildings are much, much stronger. This makes fighting under any defensive buildings unsustainable for more than a few seconds. As a result, turtling is encouraged and fighting is discouraged. This is inherently less fun and more simcity. Because turtling is encouraged, it seems like every tg ends in massive siege spam. Sitting back and passively spamming siege to destroy buildings isn't much fun. Civs are too similar now. They all seem interchangeable with the only differences being that some civs are more limited. What is the difference between ptol and rome/gauls/brits besides ptol having many more types of units and buildings? What can mace do that rome can't? It was more fun when there were things like celt building pop bonuses, free ptol houses, and easy spam siege for mace. There are other smaller changes that I don't like. For example, eliminating outposts vision is very frustrating in TGs where it is easy to sneak attack someone. This is made especially frustrating by the fact that capture rates were buffed. Also, I don't like how stone upgrades now cost wood. Before you would do eco tradeoffs between when balancing food/wood. Now, all eco upgrades rely on wood and metal. Things I like Overall, soldiers are much better balanced. For example, I like that archer civs are no longer useless. And, I like that champs are integrated more. Both of these were overdue and I welcome the changes. We eliminated dancing. This has introduced some weird animations but overall it is a huge upgrade. There are some other smaller changes that I like. For example, I like how military upgrades now work. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffffffff Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, chrstgtr said: Civs are too similar now. Agreed, I dont like same techs all over the civs. I guess we need to diversify for next release. I guess it's mostly a balance task to make cute balanced civs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 minute ago, ffffffff said: Agreed, I dont like same techs all over the civs. I guess we need to diversify for next release. I guess it's mostly a balance task to make cute balanced civs Feel free to help us 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 19 minutes ago, chrstgtr said: It was more fun when there were things like celt building pop bonuses, free ptol houses, and easy spam siege for mace. Personally I am in favor of a pop-bonus for each CC, which could help a lot at the start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borg- Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 16 minutes ago, Genava55 said: Personally I am in favor of a pop-bonus for each CC, which could help a lot at the start Me too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrstgtr Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 29 minutes ago, Stan` said: Feel free to help us As I said, basically keep unit balancing the same. And change everything else back 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 Everything else? I think units are slower to rotate to prevent dancing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 45 minutes ago, chrstgtr said: The game moves much, much slower. Part of this is because unit production is way slower. Part of this is because units actually move slower. I do not see the need for either of these and both make gameplay considerably longer. As for unit production, some training times have been tweaked, yes, but not everything is slower; e.g. citizen cavalry went from 15 s to 16 s, but champion cavalry from 30 s to 27 s, reducing the gap between citizens and champions a bit, to make champions a more viable option. As for unit movement, cavalry has been slowed down a bit, but not everything moves slower; the base speed remains the same (9), traders and female workers are unchanged, rams are a bit slower (8.1→7.2), but infantry spearmen (8.1→9) and pikemen (7.2→8.1) are a bit faster. Nevertheless, the game certainly does feel slower. I suspect it's primarily because unit rotation rates have been changed to discourage “dancing”; see D2837 for more details; D3274 softened it a bit. 44 minutes ago, Genava55 said: Personally I am in favor of a pop-bonus for each CC, which could help a lot at the start Each civic centre already gives 20 population. Sure, one could give e.g. a further +5. Or just give Britons an extra house at game start. Or merge the farmstead and house for them. Or something else . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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