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1 hour ago, Genava55 said:

It comes from a french documentary about Paris where they didn't even show the sanctuary, his work was only display for a few seconds, it seems that Pierre Gable is intentionally using the Arte logo as a proof of quality, mixing different pictures on the page with his own personal model without specify it. His model is in fact used by Dassault Systems on a video to make a promotion of their software:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-64kHmCJGMA

Clearly for me, it is unethical. Since the sanctuary of Corent was modeled by a different company (court-jus prod.).

Ah, yes, that is pretty awkward...

 

1 hour ago, Genava55 said:

I did not... Thank you :) 

 

 

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@Genava55 Might be a weird question but since you mentioned the Rome I mod having traitors in their ranks if I might say can you tell us a bit more about your references ? Maybe you could put up

Suggestion. Gauls: Ambigatos: Bonus in population capacity given by any CC Vae Victis: Resources acquired from destroying and capturing buildings Headhunting: Resources acquir

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19 hours ago, Genava55 said:

Thanks for the pictures. About these ones in particular, I want to scan them in good quality, since I have them in a book. It is a very good work from Fernando Quesada Sanz.

Correction, it is the work of J. Cabrera. Quesada Sanz is someone that wrote several books illustrated with the work of Cabrera.

Here a high resolution one, i found on the web:

356541_dossier_expo_senons_sens.png

 

He did this one too, they are Senones warriors of the 4th century BC:

Restitution-4-guerriers-IV-aC-2048x1240.

This one is made by RU-MOR, another spanish artist:

image.png.b8ac67a77ceda74277e8ad26ba52055f.png

2 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

for now they gain experience in combat.


Thx for the answer.

 

Edited by Genava55
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20 hours ago, Imarok said:

also want to "warn" you of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sci-Hub;)

Interesting... Thank you! It's sooo frustrating when you want to read something but have to pay (a lot) for it (I'm sometimes lucky enough to find a way around it, but still). The internet is exploding with substandard information, advertising, porn, political propaganda and whatnot, all for free. But if you want to read something meaningful, academic, with actual substance, you have to pay... Like: "Hey, hey you! You're too poor to be smart! But don't worry, here's some spyware... Huhum, I mean social media, shirry advertizing, pictures of cats and some videos of Mia Khalifa"... 

Edited by Sundiata
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Some proposals for the Britons with regional units from EBII:

http://europabarbarorum.wikia.com/wiki/Kladibiakoi_(Goidelic_Swordsmen)

http://europabarbarorum.wikia.com/wiki/Colgacilioi_(Caledonian_Swordsmen)

http://europabarbarorum.wikia.com/wiki/Eqoreda_(Goidelic_Cavalry)

http://europabarbarorum.wikia.com/wiki/Bodina_(Goidelic_Skirmishers)

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?760603-Help-the-EBII-Team-Screenshots-of-all-the-units-in-the-mod&p=15450247&viewfull=1#post15450247

These guys could give some elite light infantry and light cavalry for the Britons.

Here some Britonic shields made by the EB team and posted on the preview of the Pritanoi faction:

Spoiler


pritanoi_EBII_shields3.jpg
pritanoi_EBII_shields5.jpg


pritanoi_EBII_shields4.jpg


pritanoi_EBII_shields2.jpg


pritanoi_EBII_shields1.jpg

Other proposal with a focus on gameplay purpose but with still some historical background: The Mill Hill Deal warrior. Fitzpatrick wrote in his chapter "Druids: towards an archaeology" in the book "Communities and Connections: essays in honour of Barry Cunliffe" that the burial is of a religious man probably. Then why not battle-druid for the Britons? :P

It could be a good alternative for the two-handed swordsman.

Spoiler

millhilldealgr112picdr.jpg

millhilldeallcrownmatrix.jpg

millhilldealswordmatrix.jpg

 

 

Edited by Genava55
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Proposals for regional units for the gauls:

Germanic / Celto-Germanic horse-stabbers cavalry (anti-cavalry cavalry):

"The horsemen sent by Caesar [Gauls and Germans auxiliaries]…wrought wonders of bravery. Many slid from their steeds, dove beneath their foes’ horses, and struck them in the underbelly."

- Plutarch, Crassus

"But the enemy [Usipii], as soon as they saw our horses, the number of which was 5000, whereas they themselves had not more than 800 horses, because those which had gone over the Meuse for the purpose of foraging had not returned, while our men had no apprehensions, because their ambassadors had gone away from Caesar a little before, and that day had been requested by them as a period of truce, made an onset on our men, and soon threw them into disorder. When our men, in their turn, made a stand, they, according to their practice, leaped from their horses to their feet, and stabbing our horses in the belly and overthrowing a great many of our men, put the rest to flight, and drove them forward so much alarmed that they did not desist from their retreat till they had come in sight of our army. In that encounter seventy-four of our horses were slain; among them, Piso, an Aquitanian, a most valiant man, and descended from a very illustrious family; whose grandfather had held the sovereignty of his state, and had been styled friend by our senate."

- Caesar, De bello gallico, 4.

 

 

Spoiler

5OHmF2t.jpg

06xZTZ8.jpg

sweboz_warrior1.jpg

sweboz_warrior4.jpg

sweboz_warrior5.jpg

sweboz_warrior3.jpg

sweboz_warrior2.jpg

Solduros (plural. Solduroi) bodyguard from the Sotiates (Aquitani):

And while the attention of our men is engaged in that matter, in another part Adcantuannus, who held the chief command, with 600 devoted followers whom they call soldurii (the conditions of whose association are these,—that they enjoy all the conveniences of life with those to whose friendship they have devoted themselves: if any thing calamitous happen to them, either they endure the same destiny together with them, or commit suicide: nor hitherto, in the, memory of men, has there been found any one who, upon his being slain to whose friendship he had devoted himself, refused to die); Adcantuannus, [I say] endeavoring to make a sally with these, when our soldiers had rushed together to arms, upon a shout being raised at that part of the, fortification, and a fierce battle had been fought there, was driven back into the town, yet he obtained from Crassus [the indulgence] that he should enjoy the same terms of surrender [as the other inhabitants].

- Caesar, De bello gallico, 3.

Nervii infantry:

Upon their territories bordered the Nervii, concerning whose character and customs when Caesar inquired he received the following information: “That there was no access for merchants to them; that they suffered no wine and other things tending to luxury to be imported; because, they thought that by their use the mind is enervated and the courage impaired: that they were a savage people and of great bravery: that they upbraided and condemned the rest of the Belgae who had surrendered themselves to the Roman people and thrown aside their national courage: that they openly declared they would neither send embassadors, nor accept any condition of peace.”

- Caesar, De bello gallico, 2.

It added weight also to the advice of those who reported that circumstance, that the Nervii, from early times, because they were weak in cavalry, (for not even at this time do they attend to it, but accomplish by their infantry whatever they can,) in order that they might the more easily obstruct the cavalry of their neighbors if they came upon them for the purpose of plundering, having cut young trees, and bent them, by means of their numerous branches [extending] on to the sides, and the quick-briars and thorns springing up between them, had made these hedges present a fortification like a wall, through which it was not only impossible to enter, but even to penetrate with the eye.

- Caesar, De bello gallico, 2.

Treveri cavalry:

By all these circumstances the cavalry of the Treviri were much alarmed, (whose reputation for courage is extraordinary among the Gauls, and who had come to Caesar, being sent by their state as auxiliaries), and, when they saw our camp filled with a large number of the enemy, the legions hard pressed and almost held surrounded, the camp-retainers, horsemen, slingers, and Numidians fleeing on all sides divided and scattered, they, despairing of our affairs, hastened home, and related to their state that the Romans were routed and conquered, [and] that the enemy were in possession of their camp and baggage-train.

- Caesar, De bello gallico, 2.

Helvetii spearmen/infantry:

The Helvetii having followed with all their wagons, collected their baggage into one place: they themselves, after having repulsed our cavalry and formed a phalanx, advanced up to our front line in very close order. Caesar, having removed out of sight first his own horse, then those of all, that he might make the danger of all equal, and do away with the hope of flight, after encouraging his men, joined battle.

- Caesar, De bello gallico, 1.

Here the weapons of the Gallic War period:

Spoiler

870x489_sedullus.jpg

agen.jpg

casque_Buckel_Helm.jpg

casque_du_Nord_Gaulois.png

Casque_celte_type_port_2.jpg

casque_type_For_t_de_Rouvray.jpg

musee_temp_gaulois_boue_casque2.jpg

001.jpg

image.png.66d11aa05dec20727090682e3f5a53fe.png

 

Edited by Genava55
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On 7/5/2018 at 5:03 PM, Genava55 said:

Proposals for regional units for the gauls:

Germanic / Celto-Germanic horse-stabbers cavalry (anti-cavalry cavalry):

"The horsemen sent by Caesar [Gauls and Germans auxiliaries]…wrought wonders of bravery. Many slid from their steeds, dove beneath their foes’ horses, and struck them in the underbelly." 

- Plutarch, Crassus

"But the enemy [Usipii], as soon as they saw our horses, the number of which was 5000, whereas they themselves had not more than 800 horses, because those which had gone over the Meuse for the purpose of foraging had not returned, while our men had no apprehensions, because their ambassadors had gone away from Caesar a little before, and that day had been requested by them as a period of truce, made an onset on our men, and soon threw them into disorder. When our men, in their turn, made a stand, they, according to their practice, leaped from their horses to their feet, and stabbing our horses in the belly and overthrowing a great many of our men, put the rest to flight, and drove them forward so much alarmed that they did not desist from their retreat till they had come in sight of our army. In that encounter seventy-four of our horses were slain; among them, Piso, an Aquitanian, a most valiant man, and descended from a very illustrious family; whose grandfather had held the sovereignty of his state, and had been styled friend by our senate."

- Caesar, De bello gallico, 4.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

5OHmF2t.jpg

06xZTZ8.jpg

sweboz_warrior1.jpg

sweboz_warrior4.jpg

sweboz_warrior5.jpg

sweboz_warrior3.jpg

sweboz_warrior2.jpg

Solduros (plural. Solduroi) bodyguard from the Sotiates (Aquitani):

And while the attention of our men is engaged in that matter, in another part Adcantuannus, who held the chief command, with 600 devoted followers whom they call soldurii (the conditions of whose association are these,—that they enjoy all the conveniences of life with those to whose friendship they have devoted themselves: if any thing calamitous happen to them, either they endure the same destiny together with them, or commit suicide: nor hitherto, in the, memory of men, has there been found any one who, upon his being slain to whose friendship he had devoted himself, refused to die); Adcantuannus, [I say] endeavoring to make a sally with these, when our soldiers had rushed together to arms, upon a shout being raised at that part of the, fortification, and a fierce battle had been fought there, was driven back into the town, yet he obtained from Crassus [the indulgence] that he should enjoy the same terms of surrender [as the other inhabitants].

- Caesar, De bello gallico, 3.

Nervii infantry:

Upon their territories bordered the Nervii, concerning whose character and customs when Caesar inquired he received the following information: “That there was no access for merchants to them; that they suffered no wine and other things tending to luxury to be imported; because, they thought that by their use the mind is enervated and the courage impaired: that they were a savage people and of great bravery: that they upbraided and condemned the rest of the Belgae who had surrendered themselves to the Roman people and thrown aside their national courage: that they openly declared they would neither send embassadors, nor accept any condition of peace.”

- Caesar, De bello gallico, 2.

It added weight also to the advice of those who reported that circumstance, that the Nervii, from early times, because they were weak in cavalry, (for not even at this time do they attend to it, but accomplish by their infantry whatever they can,) in order that they might the more easily obstruct the cavalry of their neighbors if they came upon them for the purpose of plundering, having cut young trees, and bent them, by means of their numerous branches [extending] on to the sides, and the quick-briars and thorns springing up between them, had made these hedges present a fortification like a wall, through which it was not only impossible to enter, but even to penetrate with the eye.

- Caesar, De bello gallico, 2.

Treveri cavalry:

By all these circumstances the cavalry of the Treviri were much alarmed, (whose reputation for courage is extraordinary among the Gauls, and who had come to Caesar, being sent by their state as auxiliaries), and, when they saw our camp filled with a large number of the enemy, the legions hard pressed and almost held surrounded, the camp-retainers, horsemen, slingers, and Numidians fleeing on all sides divided and scattered, they, despairing of our affairs, hastened home, and related to their state that the Romans were routed and conquered, [and] that the enemy were in possession of their camp and baggage-train.

- Caesar, De bello gallico, 2.

Helvetii spearmen/infantry:

The Helvetii having followed with all their wagons, collected their baggage into one place: they themselves, after having repulsed our cavalry and formed a phalanx, advanced up to our front line in very close order. Caesar, having removed out of sight first his own horse, then those of all, that he might make the danger of all equal, and do away with the hope of flight, after encouraging his men, joined battle.

- Caesar, De bello gallico, 1.

Here the weapons of the Gallic War period:

  Reveal hidden contents

870x489_sedullus.jpg

agen.jpg

casque_Buckel_Helm.jpg

casque_du_Nord_Gaulois.png

Casque_celte_type_port_2.jpg

casque_type_For_t_de_Rouvray.jpg

musee_temp_gaulois_boue_casque2.jpg

001.jpg

image.png.66d11aa05dec20727090682e3f5a53fe.png

 

An illustration of the possible resulting military tree with some suggestions for the names:

gauls_tree.jpg

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4 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Do we have a word for villager, citizen, townsfolk, peasant, artisan, anything like these? 

Sure.

Adsedos: resident

Atrebatos: dweller

Andogna: native

Atectos/Atextos: peasant (serfdom like)

Cerdon: Artisan

Dugilos: manufacturer

Gobenos: blacksmith

Uassos: servant, under-class member

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On 7/5/2018 at 12:39 PM, Genava55 said:

Here some Britonic shields made by the EB team and posted on the preview of the Pritanoi faction:

Spoiler

 

A suggestion to differentiate Britons and Gauls. Above the Britonic shields and below the Gallic shields:

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.f62c87b49c7618ea15f51562cca1b2b2.pngimage.thumb.png.5671d163e956dd3908b9e900a078a576.png

Basic knowledge about umbones chronology:

image.thumb.png.e2d82294c9b0422b340b60f41d3fcb32.png

Edited by Genava55
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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi guys,

I have some suggestions to differentiate the Britons and the Gauls, not only aesthetically but also in the military units and buildings. Here a picture oriented overview, feel free to comment or ask any question:

http://docdro.id/YYcHXh2

@Sundiata @Lion.Kanzen @wowgetoffyourcellphone @wackyserious

Edited by Genava55
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On 8/6/2018 at 10:39 PM, Genava55 said:

That's pretty nice work there...

Some feedback:

Spoiler

No Gaesatae (naked fanatics)? I think they're a public favourite, relevant (battle of Telamon) and generally speaking an appropriate mercenary unit for the Gauls. The reform choices are interesting, and I think we should have more of that in 0AD anyway... Where did you get those indigenous names from? Wackyserious and Alexandermb have recently done a lot of work regarding Gallic and Briton units, and they look pretty close to the references. So perhaps some renaming/reshuffling of units is "all" that's needed? I don't think there are any wicker shields in use for the Celtic civs yet... So that would need some modeling/texture and could be useful to illustrate rank (wicker shields being the lowest rank)

What I liked a lot was the Iceni centre at Gallows Hill:

fisonway1.jpg.2569f1ed03319d8b40b1f8b67b3cf7bf.jpg

2076101923_gallowshillthetfordBritons.thumb.jpg.efa50072c7570ee7805ca04ccb019ed9.jpg

 

Seems very appropriate either as temple or even a British wonder (finally)!

 

The Irish sanctuary at Dun Ailinne seems equally fitting as a wonder, or a special structure for the Britons. It could even be an assembly building like the Hemicycle building at Corent? Ireland isn't really Britain though, so what do others think of it? Perhaps a more generic version based on this example, with a single circular enclosure instead of two? 

677634695_irishsanctuarydunailinne.thumb.jpg.3a8ed9e00c07b75842f87fa03fe37a76.jpg

 

I second the Hemicycle building at Corent as a political assembly building. Civic techs could be researched there. 

1195199025_GaulsHemicyclebuildingpoliticalassembly.thumb.jpg.b1988111c85ea368cd2c8af361d468df.jpg

gauls_architecture5.thumb.jpg.88b66bdc0c8fa7800872a421ad979f13.jpg

CORENT.thumb.jpg.f102b5b32826364d2247bae26423bcbe.jpg

With the Corent sanctuary (background) as the Gallic wonder and the Iceni centre at Gallows Hill as the British wonder, we can really bring the historicity back to Celtic structures.. The Hemicycle building (Gauls) and the Dun Ailine sanctuary ("Britons"), add lovely diversity to the Celtic structures (which is the main challenge for these civs I think). If the Gallic temple can be replaced with the the sanctuary of Gournay sur Aronde, the Gauls would be near perfect. I'm also in favour of replacing the British temple with the older, simpler version of Gallows hill, because it would follow a similar layout as the Gournay sanctuary (continuity), but would be uniquely British looking at the same time (round central structure for the Britons vs rectangular central structure for the Gauls).  

Then we can finally retire Stonehenge to Atlas, and use it as a beautifying neutral structure/ruin for British maps, and other megalithic structures like the Carnac Stones (France) could also be modeled as a neutral structure/ruin for Gallic maps like Rouen or Lorraine plains.   

 

 

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My issue with the Corent sanctuary which I still have ready to use by the way is that the roofing doesn't match the building set which as @LordGood pointed out is one of the most consistent we have. I could replace the roof by hay rooves but I'm not sure I like that historical accuracy incorrectness.

For the hemicle building why not though again I have currently no idea on how to make it fit the style. (Needs thinking on my end though)

If you say the tavern is inaccurate we'll stop using it when we have that building :) I cant say I'm all for historically accurate buildings and then leave one that isn't.

 

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The slight inclusion of shingle roofs could ease that stark consistency, I generally reserved that for defensive buildings though in the short term; that should expand to encompass at least the civic center. Speaking of, i do believe the gatehouse could benefit greatly from their use as well.

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36 minutes ago, LordGood said:

The slight inclusion of shingle roofs could ease that stark consistency, I generally reserved that for defensive buildings though in the short term; that should expand to encompass at least the civic center. Speaking of, i do believe the gatehouse could benefit greatly from their use as well.

We should also use the fixed walls I made in the suggesttions for the Gauls thread. :) I could replace the wooden planks roof with singles.

For the hemicycle I don't know what kind of props could be used to make it less bland. Else it'll look like a discover channel reconstruction and that's not something I'd be proud of ^^

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@stanislas69, before I forget, one last suggestion for your Corent sanctuary model:

Spoiler

Your original:

post-12287-0-23585700-1430222971.thumb.png.f2eb418970af6cf46614a1f37fc8d486.png

 

Suggestion:

2004962648_Corentsanctuarysuggestion.thumb.jpg.109d68f5c483f06c83e4ce9d7ed6a614.jpg

The storied gatehouse in the original model looks too tall to me, throwing off the sense of scale. Simply reducing its height makes it look a lot more natural and actually emphasizes the size of the structure in its entirety. Also the roof should probably extend to cover the top of the wall (the wall that we assume is supporting the roof), ((When the top of walls remain unprotected by a roof, they decay/crumble quickly due to the weather)), (((I know, it's based on that artist' reconstruction but I'm assuming the artist might have slipped up on that detail))), ((((red pillars don't seem al that distracting, rather a pleasant yet subtle highlight)))). 

 

Edited by Sundiata
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8 hours ago, Sundiata said:

That's pretty nice work there... 

Thank you :thumbsup: and thank you for your comments.

8 hours ago, Sundiata said:

No Gaesatae (naked fanatics)? I think they're a public favourite, relevant (battle of Telamon) and generally speaking an appropriate mercenary unit for the Gauls. The reform choices are interesting, and I think we should have more of that in 0AD anyway...

The Gaesatae is a complex discussion and I didn't delete them in my suggestion, I just renamed them in Bariogaisatos (Bario meaning furious). If we look at the latin name of Gaesatae, probably originally Gaisatoi (plural of Gaisatos), it is meaning "those who use the Gaisa" which is a obscur word with both translation in javelin and in spear. Video games and wargames started to use the name for "naked fanatics" but they are not described only by this characteristic:

Polybius: 2.22: "Accordingly the two most extensive tribes, the Insubres and Boii, joined in the despatch of messengers to the tribes living about the Alps and on the Rhone, who from a word which means "serving for hire," are called Gaesatae. To their kings Concolitanus and Aneroetes they offered a large sum of gold on the spot; and, for the future, pointed out to them the greatness of the wealth of Rome, and all the riches of which they would become possessed, if they took it."

There is a very less known account of the Gaesatae, where their king fought Marcellus with a beautiful armor/cuirass (in my opinion, a leather/lino cuirass):

Plutarch: Life of Marcellus, 6: From thence Britomartus the king, taking with him ten thousand of the Gaesatae, ravaged the country about the Po. When Marcellus learned of this, he left his colleague at Acerrae with all the heavy-armed infantry and a third part of the cavalry, while he himself, taking with him the rest of the cavalry and the most lightly equipped men-at‑arms to the number of six hundred, marched, without halting in his course day or night, until he came upon the ten thousand Gaesatae near the place called Clastidium, a Gallic village which not long before had become subject to the Romans. There was no time for him to give his army rest and refreshment, for the Barbarians quickly learned of his arrival, and held in contempt the infantry with him, which were few in number all told, and, being Gauls, made no account of his cavalry. For they were most excellent fighters on horseback, and were thought to be specially superior as such, and, besides, at this time they far outnumbered Marcellus. Immediately, therefore, they charged upon him with great violence and dreadful threats, thinking to overwhelm him, their king riding in front of them. But Marcellus, that they might not succeed in enclosing and surrounding him and his few followers, led his troops of cavalry forward and tried to outflank them, extending his wing into a thin line, until he was not far from the enemy. And now, just as he was turning to make a charge, his horse, frightened by the ferocious aspect of the enemy, wheeled about and bore mostly forcibly back. But he, fearing lest this should be taken as a bad omen by the Romans and lead to confusion among them, quickly reined his horse round to the left and made him face the enemy, while he himself made adoration to the sun, implying that it was not  by chance, but for this purpose, that he had wheeled about; for it is the custom with the Romans to turn round in this way when they make adoration to the gods. And in the moment of closing with the enemy he is said to have vowed that he would consecrate to Jupiter Feretrius the most beautiful suit of armour among them. Meanwhile the king of the Gauls espied him, and judging from his insignia that he was the commander, rode far out in front of the rest and confronted him, shouting challenges and brandishing his spear. His stature exceeded that of the other Gauls, and he was conspicuous for a suit of armour which was set off with gold and silver and bright colours and all sorts of broideries; it gleamed like lightning. Accordingly, as Marcellus surveyed the ranks of the enemy, this seemed to him to be the most beautiful armour, and he concluded that it was this which he had vowed to the god. He therefore rushed upon the man, and by a thrust of his spear which pierced his adversary's breastplate, and by the impact of his horse in full career, threw him, still living, upon the ground, where, with a second and third blow, he promptly killed him. Then leaping from his horse and laying his hands upon the armour of the dead, he looked towards heaven and said: "O Jupiter Feretrius, who beholdest the great deeds and exploits of generals and commanders in wars and fightings, I call thee to witness that I have overpowered and slain this man with my own hand, being the third Roman ruler and general so to slay a ruler and king, and that I dedicate to thee the first and most beautiful of the spoils. Do thou therefore grant us a like fortune as we prosecute the rest of the war."

There is also another account of naked warriors without any relation with the Gaesatae. It is the Toligistobogioi (Galatians).

Titus Livius (Livy), The History of Rome, Book 38, 21: Arrows, sling-bullets, darts, coming from all sides wounded them unexpectedly, nor did they see what to do, as their minds were blinded by rage and fear, and they were involved in a kind of battle for which they were very ill-adapted. For, as in hand-to-hand fighting, where they can receive and inflict wounds in turn, passion inflames their minds, so when they are struck by light weapons, coming from unseen and distant sources, and when they have no place at which they can charge with blind violence, like wounded animals they rush headlong upon their own friends. The fact that they fight naked makes their wounds conspicuous and their bodies are fleshy and white, as is natural, since they are never uncovered except in battle; so that both more blood flowed from their abundant flesh and the wounds stood out to view more fearfully and the whiteness of their skins was more stained by the black blood. But they are not much disturbed by open wounds; indeed, sometimes they cut away the skin, when the gash is broad rather than deep, and think that thus they gain greater glory in the fight; the same men, when the sting of an arrow or of a bullet that has buried itself in the flesh torments them, having caused a wound small to look at, and, as they search for a way to extract the missile, it does not come out, turning to madness and shame at being destroyed by so small a thing, throw their bodies upon the ground. So in this instance they lay prostrate here and there; some, rushing against the enemy, were wounded from every side, and when they had come to close quarters they were slain by the swords of the skirmishers.

It is why I propose a new term, less related to the Gaesatae, for naked warriors. Nudity in combat should have been for a very specific reason (religious?) since there is only a few accounts and almost none native depictions of this practice.

10 hours ago, Sundiata said:

Where did you get those indigenous names from?

I only retransformed the latin or greek name in gaulish. Vercingetorix => Uercingetorix, Arverni => Arouernoi/Aruernoi, Treveri => Treoueroi. For the rest, I used my Gaulish dictionary or take inspiration from Europa Barbarorum II (which have used both celtic and proto-IE roots).

6 hours ago, stanislas69 said:

We should also use the fixed walls I made in the suggesttions for the Gauls thread. :) I could replace the wooden planks roof with singles. 

Yes, I found it not really shocking like this:

image.thumb.png.a33fe817e0fecb0dbce99f485e69e312.png

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19 hours ago, stanislas69 said:

For the hemicle building why not though again I have currently no idea on how to make it fit the style. (Needs thinking on my end though) 

I'm glad if I can help you with this kind of trouble. Maybe you could start to the basics of what we known about:

http://www.teuta-arverni.com/medias/files/aristocratie-arverne-au-temps-de-vercingetorix-m.poux-1-.pdf

http://www.luern.fr/articles/matthieu_poux_OCT11.pdf

image.png.915ec6d2eef0d2929ca10f221103a854.png

And it should be possible to change it a bit, to adapt it. If the problem is the canvas, we can maybe let the building uncovered. We can add a side building in front of the hemicycle with a roof in wooden planks (without any moldiness). It is probable that the Arverni took their inspiration from the Greek Bouleuterion, then there is some room for imagination and adaptation. We don't need to reproduce EXACTLY the hemicycle of Corent, we need only to capture its essence to make something with it.

19 hours ago, stanislas69 said:

If you say the tavern is inaccurate we'll stop using it when we have that building :) I cant say I'm all for historically accurate buildings and then leave one that isn't.

What bothers me the most is the name and the idea behind. Making the tavern as a key building for the Celts is kinda a cliché about barbarians. Especially I don't see the link between "naked fanatics" and alcohol. 

22 hours ago, Sundiata said:

With the Corent sanctuary (background) as the Gallic wonder

Personally I am more about using the Corent sanctuary as the basic temple because it was a building with a regular use. If it is not what you want, we could use it as a feast building since there is clear evidences of feasting, wine reservoirs and animal sacrifice and eating in the building (the border between politics and religious is thin during ancient times). For the wonder, I'm thinking about taking inspiration from diverses sanctuaries. Gournay-sur-Aronde for the core basis and the hanging weapons, Ribemont-sur-Ancre for the bloody ossuary, Manching for the golden plant/tree and the wooden statues of Geneva and Yverdon-les-Bains. 

22 hours ago, Sundiata said:

The Irish sanctuary at Dun Ailinne seems equally fitting as a wonder, or a special structure for the Britons. It could even be an assembly building like the Hemicycle building at Corent? Ireland isn't really Britain though, so what do others think of it? Perhaps a more generic version based on this example, with a single circular enclosure instead of two?  

Yes the Dun Ailinne got two phases, the first one is the one from the picture I put in the document. The second phase is an unique circular enclosure with round building in the middle. I prefered the first phase because of the seats and the "arena" looking. Iron age Ireland is not exactly the same than in Britain but is clearly closer than the La Tène Gauls. And I didn't think it would cause trouble since the actual fortress for the Britons is based on a Iron age Scottish Broch. 

22 hours ago, Sundiata said:

Then we can finally retire Stonehenge to Atlas, and use it as a beautifying neutral structure/ruin for British maps, and other megalithic structures like the Carnac Stones (France) could also be modeled as a neutral structure/ruin for Gallic maps like Rouen or Lorraine plains.   

If someone want to make old monuments (bronze age) there is the woodhenge of Wiltshire and of Pömmelte. :P

17 hours ago, Sundiata said:

red pillars don't seem al that distracting, rather a pleasant yet subtle highlight

It could be possible to add some colours in key buildings since there is several archeological evidences about this:

https://www.arar.mom.fr/sites/arar.mom.fr/files/docs/Publications/decorpreromain.pdf

I can help with art, pattern and motifs.

Edited by Genava55
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