===[TASK]=== Celtic Unit Textures

[wackyserious]

I like the cardiopylax, I have seen plenty of references that have that kind of armor.

[Genava55]

The quote from Plutarch:

Quote

Meanwhile the king of the Gauls espied him, and judging from his insignia that he was the commander, rode far out in front of the rest and confronted him, shouting challenges and brandishing his spear. His stature exceeded that of the other Gauls, and he was conspicuous for a suit of armour which was set off with gold and silver and bright colours and all sorts of broideries; it gleamed like lightning. Accordingly, as Marcellus surveyed the ranks of the enemy, this seemed to him to be the most beautiful armour, and he concluded that it was this which he had vowed to the god. He therefore rushed upon the man, and by a thrust of his spear which pierced his adversary's breastplate, and by the impact of his horse in full career, threw him, still living, upon the ground, where, with a second and third blow, he promptly killed him. Then leaping from his horse and laying his hands upon the armour of the dead, he looked towards heaven and said: "O Jupiter Feretrius, who beholdest the great deeds and exploits of generals and commanders in wars and fightings, I call thee to witness that I have overpowered and slain this man with my own hand, being the third Roman ruler and general so to slay a ruler and king, and that I dedicate to thee the first and most beautiful of the spoils. Do thou therefore grant us a like fortune as we prosecute the rest of the war."

Maybe we can add some golden and silver object on the cuirass?

Spoiler

https://ansionnachfionn.com/2017/09/20/did-leather-armour-really-exist-not-for-the-celts-romans-and-vikings/

And despite the frequent online references to the hide “battle-harness” of the legendary Irish hero, Cú Chulainn, the speculations and the early 20th century translations they are based upon are probably wrong. Almost certainly what is being referred to is layers of textiles and flexible soft leather braced with a wide cowhide belt. (Linen? Felt? Linothorax?)

“Then the champion and warrior, the marshalled fence of battle of all the men of earth who was Cú Chulainn, put on his battle-array of fighting and contest and strife. Of that battle-array which he put on were the twenty-seven shirts, waxed, board-like, compact, which used to be bound with strings and ropes and thongs next to his fair body that his mind and understanding might not be deranged whenever his rage should come upon him. Outside these he put on his hero’s battle-girdle of hard leather, tough and tanned, made from the choicest part of seven yearling ox-hides which covered him from the thin part of his side to the thick part of his armpit. He wore it to repel spears and points and darts and lances and arrows, for they used to glance from it as if they had struck on stone or rock or horn. Then he put on his apron of filmy silk with its border of variegated white gold against the soft lower part of his body. Outside his apron of filmy silk he put on his dark apron of pliable brown leather made from the choicest part of four yearling ox-hides with his battle-girdle of cows’ hides about it.”

Edited January 15, 2022 by Genava55

[wackyserious]

@Genava55 Would this work for Celtic druids?

[Genava55]

35 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

@Genava55 Would this work for Celtic druids?

If the others don't find it problematic to give a chainmail armor to a priest unit, why not. I have no problem with this, it could have been the case. Some druids took the military leadership during the Gallic Wars.

However I find the texture of the cape/sagum a bit unesthetic at the bottom. Maybe a bit more on the side like this:

[Stan`]

47 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

@Genava55 Would this work for Celtic druids?

I'm not really a fan of this outfit. Genava's suggestion might make it look better though. Maybe this variant of the druid could have pants instead of a dress, like the reference above ?

[wackyserious]

16 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

I'm not really a fan of this outfit. Genava's suggestion might make it look better though. Maybe this variant of the druid could have pants instead of a dress, like the reference above ?

That was my initial concept but it would make it hard to distinguish the healer for elite units if I switch to pants. What are your thoughts on this?

[Genava55]

Just now, wackyserious said:

That was my initial concept but it would make it hard to distinguish the healer for elite units if I switch to pants. What are your thoughts on this?

I have an idea. You know this headdress from Glauberg:

It is actually an inspiration from sacred plant from the Celts. The mistletoe:

Re-enactors have proposed this headdress for a chieftain:

BUT, it could be a religious symbol used by the Druids as well, the mistletoe is known to be used by the Druids.

 

[niektb]

Very nice these new textures!  only thing I would like to add is that they look a bit dark too me (but I might be wrong about that)

[Loki1950]

Just a reminder that very saturated coloured dyes and paints did not exist until the 18 century.

Enjoy the Choice  

[Stan`]

@Genava55 Is it a full skull cap or just an headband ?

@Alexandermb would you be up to the task ?

[wackyserious]

Proposed new druid design

Initial design

[Genava55]

20 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

 Is it a full skull cap or just an headband ?

On the statue of Glauberg, it is a full cap. The symbol is also recurrent in the Celtic art on the continent, but it is impossible to say if it is a cap or a headband in these cases. A headband is plausible but the cap is the closer from the archeological material. 

[Alexandermb]

53 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

 would you be up to the task ?

The mistletoe headdres? i'll be doing it soon .

[Genava55]

41 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

 

I think the re-enactor and the warrior in the illustration wear it like this. It is a cape folded two or three times, put on the shoulder in half way and winded on the back and on the chest in direction of the belt to fix it. The two ends of the cape are on the same side. It is something re-enactors like to do because it is practical, comfy and it even protect the body.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Genava55

[Sundiata]

For recognizability sake, why not give him long white/grey hair and a beard? Might be a bit stereotypical, but considering the lack of detailed descriptions/depictions, why not? He should look a little mystical, no?

[Genava55]

2 minutes ago, Sundiata said:

For recognizability sake, why not give him long white/grey hair and a beard? Might be a bit stereotypical, but considering the lack of detailed descriptions/depictions, why not? He should look a little mystical, no?

I personally prefer something more remote from Asterix and XIXth century romanticism representations. If we have the possibility to give a different vision of these cultures, it is something good to do.

[Sundiata]

28 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

I personally prefer something more remote from Asterix and XIXth century romanticism representations. If we have the possibility to give a different vision of these cultures, it is something good to do.

Sure, no problem. I was just thinking of not letting the healer/priest unit look too much like a warrior (seen as the game is already full of warriors of every kind). You'll mostly be seeing them from a distance, zoomed out, which might make them even less recognizable.

What are your opinions on the Romano Cletic Hooded Spirits, Genii Cucullati, as an inspiration for the druids, or would that be inappropriate?

Spoiler

That last one (Gallo Roman) might also represent Priapus 

  

[Lion.Kanzen]

Is for practical reasons, otherwise we must added a new pose when he is idle. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Genava55]

10 minutes ago, Sundiata said:

What are your opinions on the Romano Cletic Hooded Spirits, Genii Cucullati, as an inspiration for the druids, or would that be inappropriate?

The cucullus is an usual cloth, popular both among the Romans and the Gauls. The only unusual word related with the cucullus is bardocucullus, that could means something related to the bard (musician).

http://www.arbre-celtique.com/encyclopedie/cucullus-cuculla-manteau-314.htm

The three peoples with the cucullus are often three goddesses or nymphae. Xulsigiae. Related to the roman mythology as well (Matres and Matronae).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xulsigiae

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matres_and_Matronae

The problem is common with these figures. There are males representations, but often distinguishing the gender is hard. Moreover, the influence of the Roman can cause the gender to switch sometimes for some cult. There is a long debate in this article here:

http://archive.fo/xcqd

20 minutes ago, Sundiata said:

Sure, no problem. I was just thinking of not letting the healer/priest unit look too much like a warrior (seen as the game is already full of warriors of every kind). You'll mostly be seeing them from a distance, zoomed out, which might make them even less recognizable.

With an headdress like the one I proposed, it should be okay no?

[Stan`]

1 hour ago, Alexandermb said:

The mistletoe headdres? i'll be doing it soon .

Yep

We should have iron scabbards too.

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

As a similar point, I read that women were occasionally druids as well.  While I can't remember the book's title, it seemed academically legitimate enough to cite.  For those who are more familiar with druidism, I would appreciate your thoughts.  

[Genava55]

5 minutes ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

As a similar point, I read that women were occasionally druids as well.  While I can't remember the book's title, it seemed academically legitimate enough to cite.  For those who are more familiar with druidism, I would appreciate your thoughts.  

It is a very debated and unresolved issue, with no true consensus. But generally there are a concordance of hints from Irish mythology and Classical accounts for a priestess role in the Celtic religion. Guyonvarc'h in his book thinks they are not druids since they never carry any sacrifice or any instruction. They are more related to the divination and invocation, like the germanic Vates. The problem is that some classical authors call them druids, but these accounts are very late and enigmatic (like Septimius Severus meeting one female druid) and several authors have confuse the different categories and mixed them in only one: the druids.

 

[balduin]

@Genava55 what should be in the hand of the druid? Do you think druids should have nothing in their hand? Right now the stick looks like a sword.

@wackyserious

[wackyserious]

Tried placing the player color on the sagum/cape and replaced the chainmail with linothorax.

@Genava55 How is the folded cape here?

[Lion.Kanzen]

looks better, from artistic point.