The Kingdom of Kush: A proper introduction [Illustrated]

[LordGood]

@balduin

[Tomcelmare]

Nice houses! As for the bottom part of the tower, I would rather see a more brownish kind of stone, but I'm not a specialist...So I guess the CC will be the next piece of work...I like the buildings so far  

[LordGood]

22 hours ago, Tomcelmare said:

So I guess the CC will be the next piece of work

lolnope

Thanks!

[LordGood]

and individuals

Spoiler

 

[Tomcelmare]

Oh man, I'm sure you did it on purpose, just to get me wrong!  By the way, nice art as usual!

Edited February 11, 2017 by Tomcelmare

[LordGood]

@balduin I feel like i should mention that my computer has a very hard time opening the pdf in your git repo, so I'm just using what I find on the forum topic/ my own instincts/ established building shape, for the architecture. I'd suggest opening another two topics strictly for sources on architecture and units, like we do for vanilla crowdsourcing. I have enough of a grasp on architecture, but units are going to need to be much more heavily referenced.

[Tomcelmare]

Some visual references for kushite army (not the best there is, but it's still something):

http://www.warlordgames.com/webstore-kushite-archers/

http://www.warlordgames.com/new-kushite-spear-and-clubmen/

http://www.warlordgames.com/webstore-kushite-king-and-chieftains/

http://www.warlordgames.com/webstore-kushite-clubman/

[Tomcelmare]

From total war: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?704397-UNITS-The-Kingdom-of-Kush

[balduin]

@LordGood You should be able to just download the PDF and open it with a local PDF-Viewer. This way you will be able to jump to a specific section and search in the document.

The PDF contains a lot of images and links, which is still a problem for PDF.js.

As far as buildings and units go, we should probably have a separate topic for each of them, to discuss the 3-D models in more detail. However, the general problem with the units is, that it is very hard to find sources. We have a lot more sources for buildings.

The Kingdom of Kush was a really interesting civilization, but we should not make the same mistakes others did and just assume everything. Interpretation is good, but it is important to base our assumptions and interpretations on archaeological and historical evidence.

@LordGood Please inform us ( @Sundiata and me) when you want to model a building, then we can point you in the right direction or stop you before you invest many hours in a model. That lowers the frustration for all of us.

- For example, the temple and the wonder would be good buildings to work on next.

---

About the buildings.

Generally speaking I like them, but I have a few things which I feel uncomfortable with.

Farmstead

The ramp is too steep. In addition the ramp should be  longer and maybe made from mud brick instead of stone. The best would be if you can move the ramp door down to the stone level. This way the silo would look a little bit bigger. In addition, I think you should, use mud brick for the foundation of the building instead of stone. Additionally, the ramp can be wider than the door.

I furthermore, think the Kushites used pottery for transportation purposes and not wooden barrels. Have a look at this amphora for inspiration:

For more inspiration of Kushite pottery have a look at:

- http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums-static/digitalegypt/nubia/mpottery.html

- page 7: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums-static/digitalegypt/nubia/mpottery.html

Storehouse:

The storehouse has to many doors, two doors are enough. Please remove the barrels or better replace them with mud bricks. The color of the stones are a little bit too white, they should have a sand or brown color.

Furthermore, I would maybe remove the window shutters.

Civic Center

The civic center looks like a military building.

Let's wait for  @Sundiata comment on the Civic Center.

@niektb Would it be possible to have a Kushite Mod subform in the game modification section to be able to discuss 3-D models, buildings and units in separate topics (threads)?

 

[LordGood]

you'd be right that the 'civic center' looks like a military building

its the barracks lol

The storehouse needs several loading doors for recognition, its barely distinguishable from the houses as it is, more so without them. it also follows the 0 AD storehouse building shape, I'll have to find a way to squeeze in a mud-brick texture into the pack

7 minutes ago, balduin said:

@LordGood Please inform us ( @Sundiata and me) when you want to model a building

mod modeling is spur the moment, so I won't be doing this

12 minutes ago, balduin said:

For example, the temple and the wonder would be good buildings to work on next.

Civic center is next, then the rest of the phase 1 buildings, then I will move along to phase 2, which will include the blacksmith, market, and temple, the wonder and temple are going to need texture pack extensions so I am reluctant to jump on those right now

[shieldwolf23]

What did I tell you guys? Told you LordGood will not promise, but will still deliver. And deliver he did! 

So far, things are looking good for the Kushites!

[Lion.Kanzen]

I have a question, this guy have some Indian relationship, I mean trade and that's things.

[niektb]

14 hours ago, balduin said:

@niektb Would it be possible to have a Kushite Mod subform in the game modification section to be able to discuss 3-D models, buildings and units in separate topics (threads)?

@feneur?

[Sundiata]

@LordGood Just… Wow… Amazing! I'll be sharing my thoughts and giving some headers by tonight. Loving the work so far!

[balduin]

@LordGood Thanks for letting us know what you would like to implement next:

14 hours ago, LordGood said:

the rest of the phase 1 buildings

The rest of the village phase (phase 1) buildings are:

• Civic Center (you already mentioned, that you want to do it next)
• Corral
• Dock
• Sentry Tower
• Low Wall + Gate
• Outpost

Civic Center

Have a look at the governors palace as mentioned before and documented in the specification.pdf.

Corral

Be creative, we have no idea how it could have looked like.

The kushites can breed goats, sheep and Sanga cattle. There are already models for goats and sheep, but there is no model for a Sanga cattle. Sanga cattle are extremely important for the Kushites. It would be really nice to have a model. Have a look at the "Corral -> Sanga Cattle" section in specification for inspiration.

Dock

The dock should have a quay (stone) and storage building. Please do not create any landing stage (jetty). The Blue Nile brings more water during the rainy season in Ethiopia, which means a landing stage in the water would be easily destroyed.

Sentry Tower

It would be nice to have a smaller mud brick version of the defense tower you already created.

Low Wall + Gate

In my opinion they should look like: "Fig. 32 Cerimonial walls in Musawwarat es Sufra". I am not sure how the gate should look like. However, the Kushites preferred narrow entrances instead of big gates.

Outpost

Mud brick / clay tower similar to the Sentry Tower, maybe a little bit taller.

[feneur]

2 hours ago, niektb said:

@feneur?

It certainly can be done, it's easy enough. I am a bit reluctant to create a forum for just three topics though (this + one for buildings and one for units). If there is a need for more than say five-six topics I think creating a new forum is a good idea, but at this point it does seem unnecessary.

[balduin]

@feneur the buildings are the easiest part, because we have a lot of archaeological evidence. I am pretty sure we need more topics for units. At least about naval units and infantry/cavalry units. However, I prefer to start topics which are specific to a building or units. Instead of having one big topic about all buildings or units.

Right now I would like to start a topics about the fishing boat / boats, the market place, archery, cavalry and basic units.

Furthermore, over the time it will be necessary to talk about programming, technology, bugs and announcements.

In short I would be surprised if we have less than 10 topics in a Kushites Mod subforum till the end of this year.

Edited February 12, 2017 by balduin

[niektb]

@balduin: In that case I think it's best to create new topics and put [Kushites] or something in front of it or something

[feneur]

1 hour ago, balduin said:

@feneur the buildings are the easiest part, because we have a lot of archaeological evidence. I am pretty sure we need more topics for units. At least about naval units and infantry/cavalry units. However, I prefer to start topics which are specific to a building or units. Instead of having one big topic about all buildings or units.

Right now I would like to start a topics about the fishing boat / boats, the market place, archery, cavalry and basic units.

Furthermore, over the time it will be necessary to talk about programming, technology, bugs and announcements.

In short I would be surprised if we have less than 10 topics in a Kushites Mod subforum till the end of this year.

It's up to you what you do, though I don't really think it would be necessary to have individual topics for each. I do prefer to create a forum once there is a need for it though and not beforehand, so I suggest you begin to create some relevant topics and once there's enough discussion/activity it's easy to create a new forum and move topics there.

I do suggest you use "Kush" rather than the full "Kushites" in the title though, mostly so that it doesn't take up so much space in the title, but I would assume that will be the short-hand version of it in e.g. template names etc anyway, so probably useful to start getting used to it  Actually it's probably best to use it as a tag, that way it stands out a bit + it's easy to find the related topics etc

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

kush_barracks
kush_civil_centre

...

kush_infantry_spearman_b
kush_infantry_spearman_e

 

etc.

So, kush_ for templates and civ code. Kushites for the civilixation name. 

{
	"Code": "kush",
	"Culture":[ "egyptian" ],
	"Region":[ "africa" ],
	"Name": "Kushites",
	"Emblem": "session/portraits/emblems/emblem_kushites.png",
	"History": "The Kingdom of Kush was an ancient Afrian kingdom situated on the confluences of the Blue Nile, White Nile and River Atbara in what is now the Republic of Sudan, South of ancient Egypt. The Kushite era of rule in the region was established after the Bronze Age collapse and disintegration of the New Kingdom of Egypt, and it was centered at Napata in its early phase. After King Kashta ('the Kushite') invaded Egypt in the 8th century BC, the Kushite emperors ruled as pharaohs of the Twenty-fifth dynasty of Egypt for a century, until they were expelled by the Assyrians under the rule of Esarhaddon. Kushite culture was influenced heavily by the Egyptians, with Kushite pyramid building and monumental temple architecture still extent. The Kushites even worshipped many Egyptian gods, including Amun. During Classical antiquity, the Kushite imperial capital was at Meroe. In early Greek geography, the Meroitic kingdom was known as Aethiopia. By the 1st century AD, the Kushite capital had been captured by the Beja Dynasty, who tried to revive the empire. The Kushite kingdom with its capital at Meroe persisted until the 4th century AD, when it weakened and disintegrated due to internal rebellion. The Kushite capital was eventually captured and burnt to the ground by the Kingdom of Axum.",
	"Music":[
			{"File":"The_Blue_Nile.ogg", "Type":"peace"},
			{"File":"Kandake's_Dance.ogg", "Type":"peace"},
			{"File":"The_Tombs_of_Our_Fathers.ogg", "Type":"peace"},
			{"File":"Our_Sacred_Mountain.ogg", "Type":"peace"}
		],

 

Title of mod? Maybe:

Rise and Rule: The Kingdom of Kush
The Rise of Africa
African Empires
Fury and Fate: The Kushites
Kingdom of Kush
The Kushites

[Tomcelmare]

Not to be mistaken with the Kushan Empire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kushan_Empire

[LordGood]

I thought this was getting rolled into Terra Magna

[balduin]

@wowgetoffyourcellphone

The following two titles are acceptable:

Kingdom of Kush
The Kushites

"Code": "kushites",

"Culture":[ "meroitic" ],

"Region":[ "africa" ],

"Name": "Kushites", or "Kingdom of Kush"

"Emblem": "session/portraits/emblems/emblem_kushites.png",

"History": "The Kingdom of Kush was one of the most powerful African empires in classical antiquity. Located in present-day Sudan, it lay on the intersection of trade routes connecting the interior of the continent with the Mediterannean world. Builders of pyramids and temples, cities and fortified strongholds, the Kushites built a trade empire, backed by strong armies, lead by powerful kings and queens. In popular culture, they are most known for their excellent archers, the Nubian Bowmen.

This Mod focuses on the time frame between 590 B.C. and 330 A.D. During this period, the Kushite capital shifted from Napata to the more southern Meroe. Facing Persian invasions, military engagements with Ptolemaic Egypt and a 5 year war with Rome, this period features many interesting events. Due to incessant raids from desert tribes, increasing aggression from the warlike Noba, and two Axumite invasions, the power of Meroe eventually waned, and by 350AD the last king was burried in its royal cemetaries. The Kingdom of Kush offers an exciting and often forgotten chapter in history.",

I copied the "History" section from: https://github.com/Jeeppler/kushites_mod/blob/master/README.md. The text was written by @Sundiata and maybe needs some polishing. 

Just to be clear the Kingdom of Kush has it's own identity and that should be reflected in the history section.

Edited February 12, 2017 by balduin

[niektb]

1 hour ago, LordGood said:

I thought this was getting rolled into Terra Magna

if this civ gets into a ''somewhat ready' then I (me personally) am not opposed against it. But I think that the authors from this civ are the ones to make the decision.

btw, @balduin @Sundiata: kudo's for the extremely extensive specification pdf 

[Sundiata]

@LordGood Ok, so my thoughts on the models so far:

Let me begin by saying they look great (as usual).

The Farm building: As Balduin mentioned, the door shouldn't be as high in the building as it is now. Bringing the door down will make the structure look more impressive and realistic, and the access-ramp wouldn't look so awkwardly steep. Using brick seems more likely for the access ramp. And indeed, wooden barrels seem a little out of place. Large ceramic vessels, like the Hellenized amphora Balduin shared, or large round or oval pots would be used for storing certain produce.

Not all buildings used vaulted ceiling or domes. Flat roofs were also used, and a flat roof for the extra building next to the silo on the farm building would be perfect (for drying fruits or something). It would make the rooftop functional, and justify the use of a ladder to reach that roof. 

The dropsite looks perfect, although I also think it has too many doors. Especially the back corner could loose one of it's two doors.

Barracks look good, but I also think it should loose it's vaulted ceiling in favor of a flat roof (less ornate). A flat roof would make it look more aggressive. Those Egyptian style half-circles lining the roof, could then go all the way round the edge of buildings' rooftop, increasing it's military feel.. Maybe the courtyard could be a little bit bigger, to help with prop-placement. Is it possible to have a small archery range in front of the building (just a target, perhaps), or would that mess too much with the footprint of the building?