Improving the AI

[tuxayo]

@Vantha Can you check the logs of the game after it crashes? On linux the logs are in /home/YOUR_USER/.config/0ad/logs/

[Vantha]

i managed to install the mod without crashes, but everytime i play with AI, i get lots of errors. (the same error again and again)

Here is my log file.interestinglog.html

Edited June 28, 2023 by Vantha

[andy5995]

Indeed it would be nice to have a smarter AI. I'll be sure to try out these changes next time I play.

 

There's also the kush extreme mod available from the 0ad mod downloader. It doesn't change the intelligence of the AI, but makes the KUSH very OP by increasing their armor strength. Existing thread at https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/91251-kush-extreme/

 

[thephilosopher]

I was able to install the mod on A26, but it didn't work. Every time I try to play against Elytra, no matter the difficulty level, the AI just sits there and doesn't do anything. Its troops just stand around the CC.

Edited July 6, 2023 by thephilosopher

[andy5995]

With kush-extreme, a pro player *might* be able to defeat 2 Kush AIs, but definitely not 3.

[andy5995]

@Stan`Maybe this thread should be merged with https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/38086-proposal-more-difficult-ai-settings/

 

[CringeForumLurker]

Both Venus and Elytra dont any move in my machine. Red errors keep getting printed on the screen

Here is the log file:

interestinglog.html

Edited July 21, 2023 by CringeForumLurker

[blarp123]

I tried running ElytraBot and had some issues where it didn't attack the enemy for a really long time, even though it had over 300 population and the enemy had less than 10.

Replay.zip

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

On 28/06/2023 at 2:30 PM, Vantha said:

i managed to install the mod without crashes, but everytime i play with AI, i get lots of errors. (the same error again and again)

Here is my log file.interestinglog.html

This is probably because tech requirement code in the templates has changed from A26 to A27.

[Seleucids]

1 hour ago, Agne1940 said:

Hopefully, the devs take note of this, as it would really improve the game for higher-level players

Currently it's up to the players to create different improved versions of bots as mods. You are welcome to make your own version.

I'm not sure whether the Devs would have time to actually work on addressing all of these points listed. One helpful things is to download all of the different bots in this thread and do a bot Vs bot contest. 

[Dunedan]

3 hours ago, Seleucids said:

Currently it's up to the players to create different improved versions of bots as mods. You are welcome to make your own version.

I'm not sure whether the Devs would have time to actually work on addressing all of these points listed.

As 0ad is Open Source everybody can contribute changes. So we'd be happy about pull requests improving AI as well.

[Seleucids]

26 minutes ago, Dunedan said:

pull requests improving AI as well.

Should I submit pull requests directly to gitea or phab or trac? Whats the preferred development platform right now? 

 

I would like to first adjust the AI to favour unit spam instead of small invasions and expansions. This is the standard style of the lobby and will make the AI stronger in late game. But I would also like to hear opinions from single players about big pushes Vs constant small harassments. 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

2 hours ago, Seleucids said:

Should I submit pull requests directly to gitea or phab or trac? Whats the preferred development platform right now? 

Gitea

[Emacz]

On 28/02/2025 at 2:07 PM, Seleucids said:

Should I submit pull requests directly to gitea or phab or trac? Whats the preferred development platform right now? 

 

I would like to first adjust the AI to favour unit spam instead of small invasions and expansions. This is the standard style of the lobby and will make the AI stronger in late game. But I would also like to hear opinions from single players about big pushes Vs constant small harassments. 

I would like ur AI updates

[hyperion]

I have to say the AI needs to be fun to play against for the regular user, a super powerful AI isn't necessarily needed.

One major issue often brought up is the lowest difficulty level is to challenging for new users. The AI also struggles on water maps.

Having a powerful second AI with the purpose of challenging to top players is an option tho.

Edit: added "top" to players, as I meant from the start

[Stan`]

It would be nice to have new AIs. In the past we had a few (Hannibal etc i probably have them listed somewhere. One was even written in Haxe). The one bundled with the game can be the general purpose one'

[Grautvornix]

So, would it be useful to have a different AI for the different levels? (easy to medium = Petra, difficult = another one, very difficutl=yet anpother one etc.) 

Certainly they'd behave differently but this is like real players that have different strategies.

[Stan`]

1 hour ago, Grautvornix said:

So, would it be useful to have a different AI for the different levels? (easy to medium = Petra, difficult = another one, very difficutl=yet anpother one etc.) 

Certainly they'd behave differently but this is like real players that have different strategies.

They might be easier to maintain code wise. Also they can keep evolving between releases. However like @agentx's hannibal ai they will have a hard time updating each time the game updates due to to lack of api stability.

I do wish we had an AI programmer though. Petra's code is not great.

[Dunedan]

What I'd like to see would be an AI whose difficulty doesn't depend on cheating, like it's the case with Petra AI and its resource multiplier.

[Stan`]

9 hours ago, Dunedan said:

What I'd like to see would be an AI whose difficulty doesn't depend on cheating, like it's the case with Petra AI and its resource multiplier.

I mean the biggest cheat is that Petra knows everything you do and plays with the map revealed.

Most AIs cheat

[Seleucids]

Even though the Ai has revealed map, it doesn't know how to take advantage of the information it has gathered. It doesn't really go for your weaknesses not adapt its play style. 

[hyperion]

23 hours ago, Grautvornix said:

So, would it be useful to have a different AI for the different levels?

No useful per se, but if it makes life easier for the maintainer than it's fine. Basically you could say we cover around 800 to 1100 elo now where I'd say we should cover 400 to 1200, in 200 elo steps maybe, with a fun to play AI. 

[Outis]

On 02/03/2025 at 1:58 PM, Grautvornix said:

So, would it be useful to have a different AI for the different levels? (easy to medium = Petra, difficult = another one, very difficutl=yet anpother one etc.) 

It would be great to have AIs with different behavior as well, for example turtling AI, booming AI, rushing AI, or overall aggressive vs defensive behavior.

[Gurken Khan]

@Outis You can choose the AI's behavior in the match setup (click on the cog).

[phosit]

On 02/03/2025 at 10:58 AM, hyperion said:

One major issue often brought up is the lowest difficulty level is to challenging for new users.

Is this still a problem? I haven't seen such a report in a long time.