a27 weekend gameplay testing

[real_tabasco_sauce]

3 hours ago, Player of 0AD said:

Whats the point of making elephants a super OP anti-unit champion?

Its pretty exciting for gameplay and all civs have rams. Eles still have pretty decent capability vs buildings, but don't expect to take down a fortress with just 1.

 

Edited May 28, 2023 by real_tabasco_sauce

[real_tabasco_sauce]

ok, i just tested the nerfed eles with a mod I made:

eleNerf.zip This mod only applies to a27.

Eles are still strong even when both sides are fully upgraded (blacksmith upgrades don't apply to eles). The test I did was 50 archers + 10 eles vs 50 spearmen and 50 skirms. (80 pop vs 100 pop)

the archers won with 42 remaining and 0 eles remaining. Possibly this is still OP, but 10 eles (big eles) costs 5500 res (2200 metal, 3300 food) while the spearmen only costed 2500 food and wood.

Possibly this is still too OP, but we have to remember that these are champions, and also that micro could massively decrease their effectiveness (make the enemy eles chase units). They do go down pretty fast to massed ranged units, so perhaps the balance is fine and they could just be considered a known counter to melee units going forward.

[Gurken Khan]

@real_tabasco_sauce I assume the skirms also died, which would be another 2,500 wood and food, making a total of 10,000 res.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

25 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

@real_tabasco_sauce

yes, I was just talking about the merit of eles vs spearmen in that case.

[Gurken Khan]

13 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

yes, I was just talking about the merit of eles vs spearmen in that case.

OK. I just thought that your equation wasn't very clear.  Sometimes you considered all involved units (pop), sometimes you didn't (res cost; ofc the lost archers should also be considered. )

[real_tabasco_sauce]

22 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

OK. I just thought that your equation wasn't very clear.  Sometimes you considered all involved units (pop), sometimes you didn't (res cost; ofc the lost archers should also be considered. )

Yes, I wasn't trying to make it so explicit as an equation. Such equations aren't really helpful when balancing things like this as there is a lot more influence of context in real battles.

Thats why I am calling for playtesting.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

7 hours ago, ChronA said:

If you want to construct a counter cycle of it Elephant > Melee Infantry > Ranged Infantry > Elephant

 

@real_tabasco_sauce Think outside the box, bruv. Perhaps a Javelin Infantry +20% attack bonus vs. Elephants. Or reduce War Elephant -1 or -2 pierce armor.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

7 hours ago, NitroVicky said:

2. Bigger rabbits or different coloured rabbits? It's very hard to find them and click on them, even if they are standing right next to your horse. The dotted grass of Anatolian Plains certainly isn't helping. 

 

I think we can increase the size of both rabbits and chickens for this reason.

 

7 hours ago, NitroVicky said:

Enable capturing by default

Soooo many people in so many discussions over the years wanted attack-by-default, and very few people spoke up for capture-by-default. I can't see how people can't just "suffer through" one alpha and see if attack by default works for them or not. 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

@real_tabasco_sauce Think outside the box, bruv. Perhaps a Javelin Infantry +20% attack bonus vs. Elephants. Or reduce War Elephant -1 or -2 pierce armor.

8 hours ago, ChronA said:

If you want to construct a counter cycle of it Elephant > Melee Infantry > Ranged Infantry > Elephant

Turns out, thats pretty much how it is currently playing, so no need to add explicit counters. The gameplay effect is neat, all that remains is to ensure it is balanced. I am not sure if https://code.wildfiregames.com/D5008 is enough to nerf them, so I would probably support either further reducing splash damage or decreasing health or pierce armor.

Edited May 28, 2023 by real_tabasco_sauce

[real_tabasco_sauce]

A 2v2 on a27. Pretty good performance all around, but @Palaiologos wouldn't let @BreakfastBurrito_007 and luchomat to full pop 

metadata.jsoncommands.txt

[NitroVicky]

I defeated 7 "very hard", "random personality" AI Bots all teamed up against at the Gulf of Bothnia. Please see the attached replay files:

metadata.json

commands.txt

Game version: Alpha 27 Agnis Testing build 27660.

I was the dark blue player named "v".

 

Feedbacks:

• Units try to damage buildings by default. I think it would be more strategically sound to capture in most cases, because buildings have less loyalty points than health points and archers do very little damage against buildings. So it would be more convenient if units try to capture by default then only try to damage when a special hotkey is activated.
• AI Bots send women and traders on suicidal tasks, for example: walking through a forest of my defence towers and fortresses, building and gathering in the middle of a battlefield. They also build excessive numbers of civic centres; they even tried to build in a narrow unclaimed area behind my base, but without ever reinforcing it.
• The AI can be more unpredictable and less aggressive - they like to send few units to harass you all the time in late game, but never any effective major assult.

[Stan`]

13 hours ago, NitroVicky said:

Units try to damage buildings by default. I think it would be more strategically sound to capture in most cases, because buildings have less loyalty points than health points and archers do very little damage against buildings. So it would be more convenient if units try to capture by default then only try to damage when a special hotkey is activated.

That's how it's been for years, leading to countless complaints

13 hours ago, NitroVicky said:

• AI Bots send women and traders on suicidal tasks, for example: walking through a forest of my defence towers and fortresses, building and gathering in the middle of a battlefield. They also build excessive numbers of civic centres; they even tried to build in a narrow unclaimed area behind my base, but without ever reinforcing it.
• The AI can be more unpredictable and less aggressive - they like to send few units to harass you all the time in late game, but never any effective major assult.

The AI code is mostly untouched since 2018, and it needs some love.