Why some heroes don't have bonus

[jvd]

Some heroes do not have any bonuses to their civilization.

Here are the heroes with no bonus;

• Civ: Sparta
• Hero: AGIS

 

• Civ: Mauryas
• Hero: Chandragupta Maurya

 

[Grapjas]

7 minutes ago, jvd said:

• Civ: Sparta
• Hero: AGIS

He has bonus health IIRC nvm he doesn't, the other one i'm not sure.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Grapjas

[Player of 0AD]

Because the devs messed it up. In A23 Agis had double health and Chandragupta could train champion archers, but then the devs changed the game and forgot about this

[thephilosopher]

More broadly, it might be worth analyzing hero usage and consider cutting from 3 to 2. imo, most civs have at least one hero who rarely/never gets used. My play has been largely limited to two civs, admittedly, but with both of them (Spartans and Seleucids) I only ever use two heroes. Other players seem to do about the same.

[Gurken Khan]

1 minute ago, Player of 0AD said:

Because the devs messed it up. In A23 Agis had double health and Chandragupta could train champion archers, but then the devs changed the game and forgot about this

How has that not been changed back several versions later?

[Yekaterina]

I would recommend making these useless heroes super strong units by themselves:

Chandragupta becomes a super elephant with 2400 health

Agis becomes a super infantry with 2000 health. 

[Freagarach]

46 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

How has that not been changed back several versions later?

Obviously because the devs messed up.

And obviously not because no-one proposed patches for them as "the devs" are usually not the ones with balancing knowledge.

Sorry, but I feel mentioned every time someone says "the devs".

[Grapjas]

42 minutes ago, Sevda said:

Chandragupta becomes a super elephant with 2400 health

Agis becomes a super infantry with 2000 health. 

No thanks, heroes have to much health as is. Be more creative.

[Stan`]

52 minutes ago, Freagarach said:

Sorry, but I feel mentioned every time someone says "the devs".

Same. And I'm not even developing anymore...

[Yekaterina]

I feel that we need more heroes who can train units, like Kuruş. 

So I suggest:

Agis trains skirmishers or helot slingers

Chandragupta trains more elephants? Of a weaker version?

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, Freagarach said:

Obviously because the devs messed up.

And obviously not because no-one proposed patches for them as "the devs" are usually not the ones with balancing knowledge.

Sorry, but I feel mentioned every time someone says "the devs".

With devs we mean Freagarach.

 

Joke.

 

if something is removed, something else must be proposed, to balance.

[Lion.Kanzen]

22 minutes ago, Sevda said:

weaker version?

Battle elephants.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

Agis 3: infantry +15% movement speed 45 m radius and +1 pierce armor 45 m radius

(He died from a javelin +sad) but also maybe it means he was fighting against ranged units which might justify the aura. It seems he commanded some mercenaries but sparta has no mercenaries to work with such a bonus.

Chandragupta

I liked the unit training function of chandragupta, but I am not sure if eles fit the bill. It would be a bit more awkward to see a whole ele pop out. I do think it would be epic to have a batch of like 5 eles training and then they pop out as soon as hero reaches the fight XD.

Edited June 30, 2022 by BreakfastBurrito_007

[Gurken Khan]

21 minutes ago, Sevda said:

Agis trains skirmishers or helot slingers

Maybe Agis could unlock a merc tec, or be able to train mercs as long as he lives. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find out what kind of mercs he brought to the battle at Megalopolis.

I think for Chandragupta something with war eles would be fine.

[Grapjas]

Maybe the historians know something heroic about these 2 and we can give them abilities instead of an aura. @Genava55 @Ultimate Aurelian@Thorfinn the Shallow Minded

Thought for Aegis 3: he becomes stronger the more isolated he is from allies. (since he managed to still kill some while being alone) OR Increased attack while being below 50%(?) hp.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Grapjas

[Yekaterina]

5 minutes ago, Grapjas said:

Increased attack while being below 50%(?) hp.

İnteresting idea, I like it.

 

5 minutes ago, Grapjas said:

he becomes stronger the more isolated he is from allies.

Dance party 

[Genava55]

Agis III at the battle of Megalopolis:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015008158407&view=1up&seq=21

1 hour ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

I liked the unit training function of chandragupta, but I am not sure if eles fit the bill. It would be a bit more awkward to see a whole ele pop out. I do think it would be epic to have a batch of like 5 eles training and then they pop out as soon as hero reaches the fight XD.

"Strabo (XV, 724) gives the treaty between Seleucus and Chandragupta, in which Seleucus ceded certain provinces and gave the Indian a daughter or niece, receiving in return 500 elephants."

https://www.jstor.org/stable/626263

that's the motivation for the bonus

 

[Grapjas]

1 hour ago, Genava55 said:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015008158407&view=1up&seq=21

So he actually didn't kill anyone in that final stand like Wiki says? He just held his ground very well considering all circumstances.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Grapjas

[Genava55]

6 minutes ago, Grapjas said:

So he actually didn't kill anyone in that final stand like Wiki says? He just hold his ground well considering all circumstances.

If you read the beginning of the page, it says:

"Agis, on seeing this, with the royal cohort, which was made up of his bravest men, I. plunged right into the dangerpoint of the fight, and cutting down those who resisted most bravely..."

There is also the account of Diodorus Siculus, suggesting in this case he did kill some enemies:

Diod. 17.63.4: An interesting event occurred in connection with Agis's death. He had fought gloriously and fell with many frontal wounds. As he was being carried by his soldiers back to Sparta, he found himself surrounded by the enemy. Despairing of his own life, he ordered the rest to make their escape with all speed and to save themselves for the service of their country, but he himself armed and rising to his knees defended himself, killed some of the enemy and was himself slain by a javelin cast; he had reigned nine years.

[Grapjas]

1 minute ago, Genava55 said:

but he himself armed and rising to his knees defended himself, killed some of the enemy and was himself slain by a javelin cast; he had reigned nine years.

This is the final stand i meant. The other source mentions he defended himself and threw back the javs that were thrown towards him but not that he made any kills. I guess the sources fullfill each other then.

[Player of 0AD]

Agis could get a 100% attack speed bonus for himself. So he is twice as strong as other infantry heroes again like in A23, and a super funny raiding unit

[real_tabasco_sauce]

On 30/06/2022 at 11:18 AM, Grapjas said:

Increased attack while being below 50%(?) hp.

maybe a smaller radius of increased armor and damage while below 50 percent HP.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

54 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said:

Agis could get a 100% attack speed bonus for himself. So he is twice as strong as other infantry heroes again like in A23, and a super funny raiding unit

This could be the second feature of the hero, with the primary being a loot bonus, or this:

1 minute ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

On 30/06/2022 at 11:18 AM, Grapjas said:

Increased attack while being below 50%(?) hp.

maybe a smaller radius of increased armor and damage while below 50 percent HP.

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by real_tabasco_sauce