Introducing the Official community mod for 0 A.D. Empires Ascendant

[chrstgtr]

3 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Hi @Darkcity thanks for the feedback! I was thinking 50% would be good since it would have a significant effect on gameplay, but 20% or 25% is a safer option. My thoughts are this: if we test the bonus at 50%, we can always bring it down to 30% or 25% as needed. But if we test the bonus at 25% it might not be very interesting for gameplay and then I bet people won't try it out.

Also:

for some reason, with 50% reduction in train time, infantry train in 7->5 seconds, and cavalry from 11->7 seconds. It's not 50% interestingly so its not as strong as expected XD. I'm wondering if there is some other factor at work. It is a significant difference, however.

Maybe just apply to inf. Merc cav is still quite strong

I also would never want cav to train as fast as men, especially if the cav is barely more expensive and starts at level 2

The proposal in its current form would make cav have a much higher attack, much higher health, and get to the fight much quicker than CS inf. Their cost would also be basically the same since in terms of res cost and time to collect needed res (because food gather so much slower than metal). Add on top that all those advantages plus train time, res cost, and res gather time would also exist with respect to merc cav vs CS cav

Edited October 18, 2022 by chrstgtr

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Ah good point, yeah it makes sense to limit this to infantry. Done.

1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

3 hours ago, borg- said:

Guerrila: The preponderance of throwing spears, and the near total absence of body armour, indicate that the style of warfare was highly mobile and loosely formed, based around raiding and short. Javelins +10% movement speed.

This could be a team bonus. Maybe just slingers and javelins?

thoughts on this for britons?

Edited October 18, 2022 by real_tabasco_sauce

[chrstgtr]

19 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Ah good point, yeah it makes sense to limit this to infantry. Done.

thoughts on this for britons?

I personally think they should be a raiding/looting civ (for similar reasons that borg stated). 
 

I would apply a speed bonus and a loot bonus. 
 

I also understand they were kind of disparate tribes that would occasionally band together. It would be cool if you apply an attack bonus when close to allies, but I don’t think that’s possible without significant computational drag

[real_tabasco_sauce]

My only concern is stacking the speedy skirms/slingers team bonus for brits with other speed buffs like Viriato from ibers. That would make their skirms 15 m/s which is comparable to cavalry.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

Loot would be a decent bonus by itself if it was addition based rather than multiplying to already quite low loot values. Maybe +10 food for each woman kill and + 5 food, 5 wood for men kills. There is also no problematic interactions with other bonuses or civ specifics as far as I am aware.

 

[chrstgtr]

42 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

My only concern is stacking the speedy skirms/slingers team bonus for brits with other speed buffs like Viriato from ibers. That would make their skirms 15 m/s which is comparable to cavalry.

Very good point. I withdraw 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Ok, I went ahead and made a merge request for the 4 new team bonuses.

[Philip the Swaggerless]

On 17/10/2022 at 8:14 PM, chrstgtr said:

Ah, I was think civ bonus—not team bonus. My mistake. 
 

For trade, I think making traders=0 pop would be a good first step. Right now trade isn’t viable because it slows growth at the cost of men. It’s a good long term play but picking that strat usually means you never get to late game. We could set a trader limit to prevent it from getting OP.

I think Land Traders are also expensive.  I think if there is a trader limit it could justify reducing production cost as well.

100 Food 80 Metal.  50 Food 30 Metal?  Or just 50 Food?

I think this would promote the use of traders and allow civs with trade bonuses and team trade bonuses to be worthwhile.

 

[chrstgtr]

3 hours ago, Philip the Swaggerless said:

I think Land Traders are also expensive.  I think if there is a trader limit it could justify reducing production cost as well.

 

You might be right. But I am not sure--traders can be very powerful if you can survive the first enemy push. I would personally suggest doing one of the other first and then seeing how balance is. 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

I figured I would put an update to the "unit_upgrades" branch here:

https://gitlab.com/real_tabasco_sauce/0-a-d-community-mod-unit-specific-upgrades/-/tree/unit_upgrades/community-mod/simulation/data/technologies

I have 2 icons to make out of 23.

I also changed the names of some to be a little more historically plausible, also interesting.

Also, now each level 2 upgrade required getting level 1 first. This makes gameplay and Ui better:

btw, unit specific upgrades are almost complete with icons:

Edited October 23, 2022 by real_tabasco_sauce

[Philip the Swaggerless]

Immortals now have 2 weapon modes.  I would like to be able to choose which version is the default version.  Would that be fair?  Any disagreement?

[Lion.Kanzen]

3 minutes ago, Philip the Swaggerless said:

Immortals now have 2 weapon modes.  I would like to be able to choose which version is the default version.  Would that be fair?  Any disagreement?

no, that's fine by dafault infantry.

[chrstgtr]

2 hours ago, Philip the Swaggerless said:

Immortals now have 2 weapon modes.  I would like to be able to choose which version is the default version.  Would that be fair?  Any disagreement?

I think you need to clarify what you mean. Do you mean you get to choose what they are trained as? Or do you mean something where they auto switch back after a fight/when walking 

[Philip the Swaggerless]

31 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

I think you need to clarify what you mean. Do you mean you get to choose what they are trained as? Or do you mean something where they auto switch back after a fight/when walking 

I mean choose what they are trained as.  So you can choose whether they come out as archer-mode or spear-mode when they emerge from the Apadana or Cyrus' shadow.  And then when you select the immortal unit you can switch weapon as you can currently.

They are best used as archers now since their health and defense is so low, but if your base is being raided by cavalry you may want them to emerge as spearmen.

[chrstgtr]

3 minutes ago, Philip the Swaggerless said:

I mean choose what they are trained as.  So you can choose whether they come out as archer-mode or spear-mode when they emerge from the Apadana or Cyrus' shadow.  And then when you select the immortal unit you can switch weapon as you can currently.

They are best used as archers now since their health and defense is so low, but if your base is being raided by cavalry you may want them to emerge as spearmen.

That's what I thought (and I think your suggestion is a good one), but I just wanted to clarify. 

(Also their spear function is good because it provides a counter to archer's natural counter--cav)

[real_tabasco_sauce]

By the way, is 8 seconds too long?

[chrstgtr]

24 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

By the way, is 8 seconds too long?

For the weapon switching mechanism? I don't know. I don't think the game has been played long enough for a real opinion to form on this. With that said, I suspect yes. Although, like Philip said, use of spears is really a niche function with limited use right now. 

Edited October 23, 2022 by chrstgtr

[real_tabasco_sauce]

yes, I have yet to see this function being used effectively. In theory, a large number of these could be used with CS, but you rarely get that far as pers, and when you do usually cav are better.

By the way @wraitii, were you going to hold the vote on this thread? Im not sure how the tournament is progressing, but we are nearing November, so perhaps it would be best to start collecting votes on the merge requests soon.

For those of you who want to vote, these are the current merge requests:

https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests

to see the details for each file, you can just click on a merge request, and select 'changes'

[wraitii]

Created with the relevant requests right now.

We are also interested by people coming forward to get the rights to merge requests on your own, as a reminder.

[alre]

I'm in for doing some testing. I especially like the territory mod inclusion.

by the way, I must warn those here who don't frequent the lobby, that the comnunity mod has actually split the community. as a rule of thumb, those above 1400 use the mod, those below don't.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

7 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

By the way, is 8 seconds too long?

100% too long. 3-5 seconds is where it should be.

[Feldfeld]

6 hours ago, wraitii said:

Created with the relevant requests right now.

We are also interested by people coming forward to get the rights to merge requests on your own, as a reminder.

I could do it, if community is not too rough if changes they don't like get merged

My plan would be to leave 5 days - 1 week of discussion for merge requests then merge if opinion is not very negative.

(for the community: please remember it's easy to undo a change!)

Btw I think balance could get in much better shape if one competent person was in charge and made most of the changes. Because, only a small amount of proposals can get in if all of them need a real consensus making everyone happy, and the gameplay has very little changes. I think I have good grasp on balance and could fill the role.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

@real_tabasco_sauce

https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/27168

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

5 hours ago, alre said:

I'm in for doing some testing. I especially like the territory mod inclusion.

by the way, I must warn those here who don't frequent the lobby, that the comnunity mod has actually split the community. as a rule of thumb, those above 1400 use the mod, those below don't.

It is worth considering that it is easy to download and that the community was already somewhat split by those skill levels anyway. It would be nice to add some kind of news rundown in the lobby that advertises some recent changes in the mod, @guerringuerrin was manually doing this by hosting a game with such a title, but I think one made automatically in the lobby chat would be great.

[chrstgtr]

6 hours ago, alre said:

I'm in for doing some testing. I especially like the territory mod inclusion.

by the way, I must warn those here who don't frequent the lobby, that the comnunity mod has actually split the community. as a rule of thumb, those above 1400 use the mod, those below don't.

I agree. It’s a problem. But it’s “necessary” this alpha because of the Han farm upgrade issue. I don’t expect this to exist going forward.