Addition of Han Chinese to 0AD

[maroder]

32 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

Ok, for what I saw it doesn't seem there was an issue on the historical accuracy but on the water level of the rice field.

So should they be more shallow or deeper?

Edited September 12, 2021 by maroder

[Stan`]

16 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Agreed. I think the water textures should be re-rendered to be more still and brown.

It uses whatever the map settings are on the version you used. We don't support different types of water.

Another solution is to use the ones on this page.

A third solution is to replace the animated water texture by a flat texture with transparency. It will probably look bad and cost some performance though.

[maroder]

27 minutes ago, Stan` said:

It uses whatever the map settings are on the version you used. We don't support different types of water.

Then there has to be some kind of other effect playing into this. maybe scaling?

Because the water in the fields definitively moves faster and has way more waves than the water on the map.

If it would be exactly the same it would look fine I guess.

Edited September 12, 2021 by maroder

[Stan`]

You can play with the settings there https://trac.wildfiregames.com/browser/ps/trunk/binaries/data/mods/public/art/materials/player_water.xml

We might need a special copy of this file as there are 12 other files using that material.

[Gurken Khan]

1 hour ago, Stan` said:

A third solution is to replace the animated water texture by a flat texture with transparency. It will probably look bad and cost some performance though.

Just out of interest: a texture would cost more performance than animated water?

[Stan`]

Depends on the texture. But transparency isn't good on low end hardware.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

7 hours ago, Stan` said:

Depends on the texture. But transparency isn't good on low end hardware.

I don't think it would be transparent. It would be opaque muddy water.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

8 hours ago, Stan` said:

We might need a special copy of this file as there are 12 other files using that material.

Hmm, for most (maybe all) of the objects using this material, the visual problems are the same. Mainly too specular, too wavey and too fast. I may experiment and get back to you. There may not need to be a 2nd water material afterall. Could improve the look of everything that uses it.

[Stan`]

According to @maroder and @vladislavbelov some of the parameters do not work / are ignored. Not sure which ones and why.

14 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I don't think it would be transparent. It would be opaque muddy water.

Maybe with specular and stuff it's work. Would look weird on low graphics I suppose.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

3 minutes ago, Stan` said:

According to @maroder and @vladislavbelov some of the parameters do not work / are ignored. Not sure which ones and why.

In my experiments, I am finding the same thing. This material is a mess. lol

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

5 minutes ago, Stan` said:

Maybe with specular and stuff it's work. Would look weird on low graphics I suppose.

I mean, most of the game looks horrid on low graphics. This item would fit right in.  

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

9 hours ago, maroder said:

Then there has to be some kind of other effect playing into this. maybe scaling?

Because the water in the fields definitively moves faster and has way more waves than the water on the map.

If it would be exactly the same it would look fine I guess.

Looking at this comparison, I think all that needs done is to have less tiling in the paddy water. Each section seems to have about 4 repeating tiles of water. Reduce that to 1 and it may look less wavey (or more pixelated, dunno).

[maroder]

32 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Looking at this comparison, I think all that needs done is to have less tiling in the paddy water. Each section seems to have about 4 repeating tiles of water.

The problem is that the speed is not scaled accordingly. I.e if you scale it up, it seems to move even faster. 

And yes the only way to change the waviness is to change the code of the shader.

[alre]

maybe it was made this way because in smaller bodies of water you do find smaller waves. big waves may look out of place. if not particularly windy though, most of the time the water would be still.

anyway, I really feel like insisting that it doesn't make sense to try to be accurate about the historical choice of materials and then have rice fields in patches like those. I mean, it's both unreal and eye catchy, so I guess it's a tradeoff, buth mind about where do you stand.

[Freagarach]

9 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I mean, most of the game looks horrid on low graphics.

I would love to see the full glory of the game then sometime, for I already like it now.

[maroder]

10 hours ago, alre said:

anyway, I really feel like insisting that it doesn't make sense to try to be accurate about the historical choice of materials and then have rice fields in patches like those. I mean, it's both unreal and eye catchy, so I guess it's a tradeoff, buth mind about where do you stand.

well it's mostly me insisting and I can tell you that I like to look at nice things. The new wall textures from @m7600 look nice and are historically accurate, so win-win. The rice paddies may be a bit more on the eye candy side, but I would say that's artistic freedom.

Also: this design is adaptive to the ground, i.e. it still looks good if you build on uneven terrain.

___________________________

@wowgetoffyourcellphone

This is the best I can make it look.

Edited September 13, 2021 by maroder

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Very nice.

1 hour ago, Freagarach said:

I would love to see the full glory of the game then sometime, for I already like it now.

Well, basically look at anything I post on the screenshot thread.  

[Stan`]

I didn't invest much time in it because of the initial removal of the rice field from the feature list but maybe  I could manage to fit the puddles shape better with rice.

[maroder]

3 hours ago, Stan` said:

fit the puddles shape better with rice

I think it would look nice if the rice was a bit more irregular than it is at the moment.

[Ceres]

On 11/09/2021 at 3:06 PM, Yekaterina said:

@Ceres please apply the patch to the git. I would like to perfect all of the elements before making a final patch. I have convinced @KKaslana to work on this as well.

Right now I am not sure how to balance the civ with respect to the other vanilla civs; we also need to take account of any changes in mechanics between A25 and A26.

Well, I just wanted to do it and set everything up - just to realise that all those strings were already removed 2 days ago. Well, what's done, is done.

[MoLAoS]

Since I can't post in the balance thread about this:

The Chinese had sling staffs in the 900s but that is probably too late. There is documentation of javelins in extensive use(30000 soldiers in an army with 30k crossbows) as far back as 600 during the Sui invasion of Goguryeo

I believe the 3 Kingdoms exhibit at the Tokyo national museum had what they claimed was a Han Dynasty javelin but I can't read kanji so I dunno their legitimacy.

Edited September 14, 2021 by MoLAoS

[ymming]

To reply the post "Balancing the Han civ for A26"
Cant reply to the balancing thread like above. 

Han dynasty often use "戟Jǐ" (English translation as polearm/halberd) which makes them develop "手戟 shou ji" (hand halberd for direct translation), weapon for melee or throwing which became very popular during the late Han "three dynasty" period as most of these weapon were recorded on 《三国志》san guo zhi.

Another weapon which very similar to javelin is "鋋chán" used in melee and throwing, but clear evidence for its used as javelin were very had to find....so I will just skip it on here. 

So, for the mid rage unit I am agree with @wowgetoffyourcellphone using the crossbow. Like other civ, javelin and sling are usually one of the starting infantry (mid rage citizen solder). For a normal crossbow could be easily used by citizen compared a bow which need much more training. 

For the question: "4. Switching champions - a fun idea, but might be a bit too expensive to unlock"

Would it possible to make the second weapon unlocked by "gaining exp/ ranking up" through dealing damage and garrison in barrack/fortress/tower/town hall ?

Edited September 14, 2021 by ymming

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

14 minutes ago, ymming said:

dynasty often use "戟Jǐ" (English translation as polearm/halberd) which makes them develop "手戟 shou ji" (hand halberd for direct translation), weapon for melee or throwing which became very popular during the late Han "three dynasty" period as most of these weapon were recorded on 《三国志》san guo zhi.

This is kind of neat, like it would be thrown similar to a boomerang. 

[ymming]

6 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

This is kind of neat, like it would be thrown similar to a boomerang. 

The application would more be like tomahawk.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 minute ago, ymming said:

The application would more be like tomahawk.

Right, probably a better comparison. Can be thrown like a tomahawk or hatchet.

Edited September 14, 2021 by wowgetoffyourcellphone