===[COMMITTED]=== Horse Update 2.0 (Retexture)

[Alexandermb]

Hi folk from 0.A.D, This is the surpirse:

Proudly present the Retexture (Also remesh) of the horses in 0.A.D. 

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Introducing more colors variety and the alpha channel hair for manes and tails done by @Sundiata:

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The update comes with a video tutorial of modeling and soon sculpting process for how it was done. Also the update comes with another blend file for allow blender users to bake their own horse textures, (including neon green, red orange any color they desire)

Blend File:

Blend file will be 2.80, but also 2.79 users could benefit from it anexing the objects and making little adjust to the nodes

Baking nodes: color is managed in by a simple slider with multiple tones, or just two if desired, 

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The body color is handed such way by the Vertex painting colors, i have defined a body paint with RGB allowing to move by another 3 sliders the way the colors are influenced by such vertex paint.

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There is already some predefined colors, once it finished.

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i would share another video of the process of baking but sadly my pc wouldn't resist such thing and could loose it since my AMD 145  enough battles has won from around 7+ years of life, and so it is my Nvidia GT520 wich already loosed his fan around 5 years ago and had to adapt another one.

Some preview of the cavalry updated:

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Horse mesh comes with little updates to adjust more to the quality of animations, this means better knees and shoulders (meshing speaking) for a better transition of bones when rotating or moving (ie: galloping, promoting) 

Animations remains the same, just trot, walking and galloping were changed to move legs movements more centered as mentioned before.

Blankets and body armors seems to adapt better to the new mesh due to the way the vertex are placed, making a smoother view, yet theres still some props to adapt, and more to do:

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Also including some distintive genetic details (not everything but at least the most noticeable) for horse fauna variation:

Lusitano colors

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Indian Marwari Ears:

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Persian - Arabian contexture:

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Celtic  breed face shape:

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Why suddendly horses? because i was working on updates for Mythology A.D. And realized i will need better textures for a fluid transition when making pegasus and sleipnir.

Comparisson from a gameplay distance of a cavalry army

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Hope you all enjoy it.

 

 

[Alexandermb]

Tutorial Videos:

Modeling:

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Sculpting:

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[Diatryma]

again?  ...lol.

[Trinketos]

Tus tutoriales me vienen bien ahora,

Ahora sobre los caballos se ven bien me gusta la forma en que se hacen las texturas

 

[Hidan]

[Stan`]

You need a better specmap but it looks better now. The blonde hair looks a bit weird. I guess that's because of the specmap but the hair looks wet

[Alexandermb]

3 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

You need a better specmap but it looks better now. The blonde hair looks a bit weird. I guess that's because of the specmap but the hair looks wet

Reduced a bit, however it always look's better with gpuskinning enabled:

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Also, color diferentiation between rank is no longer used, now every horse (depending on breed) uses the same color by variants;

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The variant reduce the amount of lines by also calling two props depending on the color, they will call a color range predefined by another variant with the tail and mane:

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[Imarok]

Very nice. But a varity in mane shapes would be the cherry on top.

Also what mane types were common in that timeframe and cultures?

[Phalanx]

As a player who uses an absurd and probably ineffectually large amount of cavalry in 0AD, I LOVE THIS!!

[Sundiata]

8 hours ago, Imarok said:

Also what mane types were common in that timeframe and cultures?

Interesting remark... I have no doubt that natural manes were the norm, in general terms, but since you bring it up, quite a number of depictions of horses with roached/hogged/cropped manes, that stand up right, exist from Antiquity. A very small number of horses have naturally upright manes (comparable to those of przewalski's and zebra). Actually wouldn't be bad for some of the Greco-Roman and Achaemenid elite cav...

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I see lots of actor fixing in my future. Carry on my wayward son.

[Alexandermb]

13 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I see lots of actor fixing in my future. Carry on my wayward son.

Not really, most of the changes are just add the mesh and the color variants, in fact it reduces the amount of lines used on every actor. I was thinking a way of calling a variants inside another as used in actor with groups for only have 1 line for the mesh variant calling the rest of it leaving the cavalry_m file just for decide wich props, the rider and the animation variants.

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To this:

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I Want to leave it only as: Pick Breed - Leave the breed choose the colors. if you want an specific color, define it by using <textures> line for a more cleaner actor file and leave modders an easy way to choose.

Also, with the horse mesh for sculpting now it can be baked horse statues properly (Golden - Rotten - Bronze - Iron etc)

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

No I get it, but that means editing every cavalry actor in Delenda Est. But progress is progress.

[Alexandermb]

4 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

No I get it, but that means editing every cavalry actor in Delenda Est. But progress is progress.

Don't worry, do scythians have specific body paintings or manes ? Horse Armors ?

[Diatryma]

2 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

No I get it, but that means editing every cavalry actor in Delenda Est. But progress is progress.

ironically an backward.

4 minutes ago, Alexandermb said:

Don't worry, do scythians have specific body paintings or manes ? Horse Armors ?

this?

[Diatryma]

I forgot this , sorry. some time my time 

my busy time, disturbs my mind, but I'm trying to help you, from my heart, not from my banal knowledge.

but isn't a waste.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Diatryma

[Diatryma]

[Imarok]

Thank you for your information.

On 2/23/2019 at 9:48 AM, Sundiata said:

I have no doubt that natural manes were the norm, in general terms

Then the question how the natural manes looked in timeframe still remains
Afaik the form of the mane heavily depends on the breed.
And speaking as a total layman in terms of history and warfare: I think a long mane could be quite hindering in the battle, as it can obstruct your vision when the horse moves its head.

(An animated mane would be extremely cool But probably a bit excessive ^^)

[Sundiata]

8 minutes ago, Imarok said:

Then the question how the natural manes looked in timeframe still remains
Afaik the form of the mane heavily depends on the breed.
And speaking as a total layman in terms of history and warfare: I think a long mane could be quite hindering in the battle, as it can obstruct your vision when the horse moves its head.

Normally the mane never hinders the rider. It's difficult to explain, but it's not really a thing you ever worry about when riding. It never obstructs vision. Unless you're riding something like an Andalusian with ornately long manes, then yes, maybe it's an issue if your spear get's tangled in that. I did randomly read somewhere that manes were sometimes trimmed for that reason... The main thing I can think of is with heavily armored horses like the cataphracts, the manes might be cut (slightly helps prevent overheating when the neck is covered, I assume), but you wouldn't see the manes in that case anyway. Manes were also sometimes pleated, for decoration/neatness. 

About the types of manes, it's true that some breeds have much more bushy manes, especially the more archaic types, I believe (Celtic horses maybe?).

I'll try to make a few variations for the mane-textures soon (trimmed, cropped, pleated).

[Nescio]

Xenophon wrote a short treatise on horsemanship, which is worth reading. Here are some excerpts where he mentions the manes:

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[7] καὶ οὐρὰν δὲ καὶ χαίτην πλύνειν χρή, ἐπείπερ αὔξειν δεῖ τὰς τρίχας, τὰς μὲν ἐν τῇ οὐρᾷ, ὅπως ἐπὶ πλεῖστον ἐξικνούμενος ἀποσοβῆται ὁ ἵππος τὰ λυποῦντα, τὰς δὲ ἐν τῷ τραχήλῳ, ὅπως τῷ ἀναβάτῃ ὡς ἀφθονωτάτη ἀντίληψις ᾖ. [8] δέδοται δὲ παρὰ θεῶν καὶ ἀγλαΐας ἕνεκεν ἵππῳ χαίτη, καὶ προκόμιον δὲ καὶ οὐρά. τεκμήριον δέ: αἱ γὰρ ἀγελαῖαι τῶν ἵππων οὐχ ὁμοίως ὑπομένουσι τοὺς ὄνους ἐπὶ τῇ ὀχείᾳ ἕως ἂν κομῶσιν: οὗ ἕνεκα καὶ ἀποκείρουσι πρὸς τὴν ὀχείαν τὰς ἵππους ἅπαντες οἱ ὀνοβατοῦντες.

[7] He should also wash the tail and mane, for growth of the tail is to be encouraged in order that the horse may be able to reach as far as possible and drive away anything that worries him, and growth of the mane in order to give the rider as good a hold as possible. [8] Besides, the mane, forelock and tail have been given to the horse by the gods as an ornament. A proof of this is that brood mares herding together, so long as they have fine manes, are reluctant to be covered by asses; for which reason all breeders of mules cut off the manes of the mares for covering.

— Xenophon On Horsemanship 5.7–8, text and translation by E. C. Marchant (1925)

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ὅταν γε μὴν παραδέξηται τὸν ἵππον ὡς ἀναβησόμενος, νῦν αὖ γράψομεν ὅσα ποιῶν ὁ ἱππεὺς καὶ ἑαυτῷ καὶ τῷ ἵππῳ ὠφελιμώτατος ἂν ἐν τῇ ἱππικῇ εἴη. πρῶτον μὲν τοίνυν τὸν ῥυταγωγέα χρὴ ἐκ τῆς ὑποχαλινιδίας ἢ ἐκ τοῦ ψαλίου ἠρτημένον εὐτρεπῆ εἰς τὴν ἀριστερὰν χεῖρα λαβεῖν, καὶ οὕτω χαλαρὸν ὡς μήτ᾽ ἂν ἀνιὼν τῶν τριχῶν παρὰ τὰ ὦτα λαβόμενος μέλλῃ ἀναβήσεσθαι μήτ᾽ ἂν ἀπὸ δόρατος ἀναπηδᾷ, σπᾶν τὸν ἵππον. τῇ δεξιᾷ δὲ τὰς ἡνίας παρὰ τὴν ἀκρωμίαν λαμβανέτω ὁμοῦ τῇ χαίτῃ, ὅπως μηδὲ καθ᾽ ἕνα τρόπον ἀναβαίνων σπάσῃ τῷ χαλινῷ τὸ στόμα τοῦ ἵππου.

We will now describe what the rider should do when he has received his horse and is going to mount, if he is to make the best of himself and his horse in riding.

First, then, he must hold the lead-rope fastened to the chin-strap or the nose-band ready in the left hand, and so loose as not to jerk the horse whether he means to mount by holding on to the mane near the ears or to spring up with the help of the spear. With his right hand let him take hold of the reins by the withers along with the mane, so that he may not jerk the horse's mouth with the bit in any way as he mounts.

— Xenophon On Horsemanship 7.1, text and translation by E. C. Marchant (1925)

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τάφρον δὲ διαλλομένου καὶ πρὸς ὄρθιον ἱεμένου καλὸν χαίτης ἐπιλαμβάνεσθαι, ὡς μὴ ὁ ἵππος τῷ τε χωρίῳ ἅμα καὶ τῷ χαλινῷ βαρύνηται. εἴς γε μὴν τὸ πρανὲς καὶ ἑαυτὸν ὑπτιώτερον ποιητέον καὶ τοῦ ἵππου ἀντιληπτέον τῷ χαλινῷ, ὡς μὴ προπετῶς εἰς τὸ κάταντες μήτε αὐτὸς μήτε ὁ ἵππος φέρηται.

When jumping a ditch or riding up hill it is well to take hold of the mane, that the horse may not be burdened by his bridle and the difficulty of the ground at the same time. When going down a steep incline, he should throw his body back and support the horse with the bridle, that neither rider nor horse may be tossed headlong down hill.

— Xenophon On Horsemanship 8.8, text and translation by E. C. Marchant (1925)

 

[Genava55]

Exmoor pony

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmoor_pony

Mérens horse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mérens_horse

In "The Horse in the Ancient World: From Bucephalus to the Hippodrome", chapter 3: "The argument that horses were transported during the Bronze Age from the continent to the British Isles predisposes the notion that these horses must have been domesticated as the idea of trying to bring wild horses across the Channel is ridiculous in the extreme! Undoubtedly the Celts who migrated to Britain from the Continent did import their local horses when they moved across the Channel. There are, however, some difficulties with the argument that all of the ‘native’ breeds are descended from these imported animals – particularly with regard to the Exmoor pony. Speed wrote: The Celts imported a small 10 hands high pony but it does not appear to have been pure-bred, because it had some of the characters of the eastern small pony and some characters of the southern horses. It is found buried in the graves of the Celtic settlements and was a somatic horse, but it obviously did not succeed in establishing itself in a wild state here, and its bones show evidence of diseases. Other Celtic period graves indicate that there were at least two types of horse living in Britain at this time. The graves from Blewburton included ‘a slender stallion of about 11 hands while the other was identified by Speed as the original British pony type’. It is not surprising that the Celts would have brought over their own native horse when they crossed the Channel. Why would they not? These were the animals they were familiar with that were tamed and trained in the style used by the Celts. It is also not unreasonable to assume that, upon settling into life on the British Isles, the Celts began to look at the native British Hill pony as a useful animal. Their imported horses were not well suited to the climate and fodder of the Isles, particularly in the moorland areas. The Continental horses would have lacked the physical adaptations of the British Hill pony. So the imported horses would have required more human assistance to survive. Their unsuitability for life in Britain does not mean the Celts would have abandoned breeding their imported horses. I think quite the opposite would have happened. The difficulty in keeping these animals would have made them all the more significant and valuable. The extra care required for their upkeep translated to a greater cost, thereby increasing the status associated with the owners of these horses. What about the native ponies of the British Isles? The logical answer is that the Celts began to make use of the local equine populations. Given the value of the imported horses they would not have been used for regular, everyday work or as a food source. Instead the Celts could turn to the native British ponies: they would have been comparatively inexpensive to keep. Crosses – whether through intentional breeding practices or otherwise – between the native ponies and imported horses must have occurred creating yet another type, the optimal specimen of which would have carried the best qualities of both types. As Baker correctly states, The Celts began the practice of importing animals to the British Isles and in the case of horses and ponies, it was to continue throughout history. Man quickly found that the genetic flexibility which had served the horse family so well in its natural history provided a wonderful basis for animal husbandry."

 

For the burial of the horsemen at Gondole, the horses and geldings have a height of the withers between 118 and 130 centimeters:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/42692831/Inhumations_de_chevaux_chez_les_Arvernes20160215-6751-duv84f.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A&amp;Expires=1551018501&amp;Signature=6m0W87orCPzUD0ONq5cGsi3aNYU%3D&amp;response-content-disposition=inline%3B filename%3DInhumations_de_chevaux_chez_les_Arvernes.pdf

 

Here a diagram of distribution of the height of the withers (horizontal axis) from the horses remains found in two places in France:

 

Caesar, Book 4, Ch2 : "Merchants have access to them rather that they may have persons to whom they may sell those things which they have taken in war, than because they need any commodity to be imported to them. Moreover, even as to laboring cattle, in which the Gauls take the greatest pleasure, and which they procure at a great price, the Germans do not employ such as are imported, but those poor and ill-shaped animals, which belong to their country; these, however, they render capable of the greatest labor by daily exercise. In cavalry actions they frequently leap from their horses and fight on foot; and train their horses to stand still in the very spot on which they leave them, to which they retreat with great activity when there is occasion; nor, according to their practice, is any thing regarded as more unseemly, or more unmanly, than to use housings. Accordingly, they have the courage, though they be themselves but few, to advance against any number whatever of horse mounted with housings. They on no account permit wine to be imported to them, because they consider that men degenerate in their powers of enduring fatigue, and are rendered effeminate by that commodity."

=> it seems to be corroborate by the finds of >140 centimeters horses during the 1st century BC among the Gauls

 

[Alexandermb]

On 2/24/2019 at 6:54 AM, Imarok said:

Thank you for your information.

Then the question how the natural manes looked in timeframe still remains
Afaik the form of the mane heavily depends on the breed.
And speaking as a total layman in terms of history and warfare: I think a long mane could be quite hindering in the battle, as it can obstruct your vision when the horse moves its head.

(An animated mane would be extremely cool But probably a bit excessive ^^)

kinda, it would use double faces and right now the amount is Horse + Rider + Props + Blanket + Armor + Tail + Hair, its kinda like the old years tank in terms of polygons.

is there a way i can upload this as a patch in phabricator whitout commiting so everyone can see the code and give their opinion? because i'm replacing ALL the texture code lines with variants making a lot of variants for every situation:

PD: i moved Horse texture's variants inside a horse folder due to the possibility of making also variants for future sculpted animals, i don't want to see the game folders like it is right now the props folder mixing ALL kinda of props making them harder when importing to blender, also doing this with weapons textures update for the sake of weapons organization.

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[Imarok]

On 2/26/2019 at 3:30 AM, Alexandermb said:

is there a way i can upload this as a patch in phabricator whitout commiting so everyone can see the code and give their opinion? because i'm replacing ALL the texture code lines with variants making a lot of variants for every situation:

Yes. Just go to https://code.wilfiregames.com and then click on differential and add a new patch/differential.

[Phalanx]

On the topic of manes:

It seems to me that the "Barbarian" factions, and low tier greek/hellenistic units should have natural manes, but elite/campion greek/hellenistic units should have cropped manes, because a mane is not necessary to mount the horse if they have proper equipment like a saddle and stirrups, but poorer soldiers might not have that equipment, therefore they need the name for help.

Because there is art that shows horses with cut manes, and logically a long flowing mane would hinder the rider in combat...

[Nescio]

13 minutes ago, Phalanx said:

if they have proper equipment like a saddle and stirrups

Stirrups did not yet exist in our timeframe.